Diary Entry 255. "Hold My Chalk!" (1:2 with Erika Lalita)

[00:00:00] Hello and Happy Tuesday Diary listeners. We have a two part diary entry up this week for you. I sat down with an awesome chalk artist. I mean, we both didn't know she's been doing it for 10 years but but but I you know you don't know it's a thing until somebody's doing it and you're like, wow, you can do that. Her name is Erika Lalita. And as I said, she's been a chalk artist for quite some time now.

[00:00:30] And in this episode, which we are dubbing, we're naming, Hold My Chalk. This is the first piece of her diary entry. We're going to talk about a lot of things and she's basically going to discuss her personal step into this profession and what that looks like. So I hope you enjoy listeners. I know I did. Welcome to the Apprenticeship Diaries where raw meets refined.

[00:01:00] Let's be real. We're still working on the fine. What it took, what it takes and the stories that are made. Join us as we learn from professionals about how their stories begin. So let me announce you since we're officially recording now. All right. And I've kept you waiting long enough. My God. No, it's all good. Professions will come later.

[00:01:28] But diary listeners, I'm here today with Erika Lalita and she is a professional artist of many flavors, but I've seen you mostly in street art, at least online. Yeah. It's what I'm most known for. Yeah. Okay. Is that the majority of what you do or? It is the majority of what I do. And I would say it's my 100% passion. Like that's the thing for me that brings me the most joy. So I do that as often as possible. Heck yeah, man.

[00:01:56] So I'm, I'm really passionate about letting you talk about this a lot. Cause like, how do you, how do you get into that? Like what, how did that start? So just like anything, um, divine orchestration. Cause it was pure serendipity. I had just moved, um, back to the Buffalo area in New York. Okay.

[00:02:23] And, um, I started a new job for me at a paint and sip studio. And one of my colleagues, it was my very first time meeting her. And, um, she also was actually, it was a pretty well-known mural artist. And she had double booked herself for something. And then this chalk festival that was an hour away. Um, and she was like, would you fill my spot?

[00:02:53] It's 250 bucks for the weekend. And I'm like, all right. Yeah, sure. I, she's like, it's not actually sidewalk chalk. You can use pastels and it does the same thing. And I'm like, I connected with pastels, um, instantly in college. And actually it's kind of crazy to like dial it back and see where the seed actually like started. Um, and I was like, yeah, I think I can do that. And I went in completely green.

[00:03:20] So I got sunburnt to a crisp. I, I didn't have anything for my knees. So I was eight hours on the pavement with like bare knees. And, uh, I was like a wreck afterwards, but I was also like, so lit up by it. And this was one of the, so it's kind of a very niche world that if you know about it, it's a big world. But if you don't know about it, you're like, huh, that's surprising.

[00:03:50] And there's a whole circuit of chalk festivals around the country that all these people like me now, uh, professional artists travel around to, to kind of take off as many states as they can kind of a thing. Um, and this was one such festival unbeknownst to me. So I only, it was local for me, but it was attracting all these, uh, national artists from around the country.

[00:04:19] So I had learned, I only did that same festival cause I loved it so much exclusively for two or three years. But as I went along, I learned about the wider world through these artists that were being brought in and learned that they're getting a travel stipend. They're not paying for lodging. They're getting reimbursed for airfare and they get paid to go around and do this.

[00:04:45] So, oh gosh, it's a long story. Once I get it. I know. I mean, that's the, that's the point. I do have a jumping question. Yes. Is it mostly, um, is it corporations that like really want you to come and like bring attention to their area? Is it government grants? Like, is it a cacophony of things? Like. Yes. Um, all of the above.

[00:05:09] So it's most of the, these chalk festivals that are bringing in all these artists are usually community based. Um, so they are getting money through donors, usually their local businesses, et cetera. Um, and they have like their own association and things like that, but they're, they're very community based, um, cities sometimes that kind of stuff.

[00:05:38] But then you do, um, have that usually attracts people who are like, Hey, this actually like brings people in. So, um, one such instance for me as time went on was, um, I was getting noticed for my work at these festivals I was doing. And so then these corporations would reach out for me for activations for their events. Um, so again, most of my career kicked off when I was living in the Buffalo area.

[00:06:07] So, uh, the Buffalo bills noticed me and started hiring me for like pregame events. Um, and then the Buffalo Sabres, like the sports teams caught on to me and they're like, Oh, this is something where we can plug someone into it's interactive and, uh, it's fun. Um, so that kind of stuff. I also just, when I was first starting and wanting to get my name out there, I kind of would like

[00:06:35] cast a line in a few different places where I was like, Hey, I don't need money particularly, but if I could barter an experience, uh, to bring my family, um, I would love to do some artwork for you. And I would have some bites like the Pennsylvania Renaissance fair was like one of my favorites today. I didn't get to enjoy the fair at all, but it's still, it's still, yeah. Yeah. It's still one of my favorite memories actually though.

[00:07:04] Cause it was just like a really fun time. And, and my son had a blast and, uh, I, I brought my best friend. I brought in my sister who, you know, and her boys too. And everyone got in for free. And, uh, and so like that kind of thing, I, I love all of that. So it's a mixture of commissions and then these festivals that, that offer stipends. They're usually, well, they all are really competitive and you have to apply and submit your past work.

[00:07:33] And then they have a jury, um, so that they decide, you know, who's coming in and, and, and getting the funding to do it. Um, I would imagine that's really cool. Do you remember? So I'm imagine what the commissions there's, um, there's a lot of, um, commercial artistry to it, where you have to kind of agree to what you're going to do. But for this first time, what was that like?

[00:08:00] Did you get free reign about what you got to do at the chalk festival? Yeah. The very first one I, I did get to pick. Yep. Um, some festivals will have a theme, but this one, this one did not. They, and I'm not sure if they even required submission. I think the organizer wanted to know like what you were doing, but it wasn't super official. Um, so I did. Okay. I'm sorry. I do.

[00:08:29] Um, and I'll, I'll never forget. So my, um, my mother's favorite series of paintings was by Thomas Cole called the voyage of life. Have you seen it? Mm hmm. Yeah. So she would take us, um, my sister and I, we would take day trips to Washington, D.C. Sometimes it'd just be tourists, but we always had to go to the gallery of art so that they

[00:08:57] were on like the same kind of like little room. And one was on each wall. Um, and it's a series of four paintings and, and she would just, it wouldn't matter how many times she's seen them in her life. There was some visceral cathartic connection just innately happening with her in these paintings. And she'd weep, like she'd read the whole thing. She'd like really immersed in them.

[00:09:22] Um, and, um, so I replicated those four paintings in one. Wow. So this was a, this was in a parking space is how they styled it. So I think it was like 12 feet. It maybe it was like eight to 10 feet long. Um, and I, I divided, I just had the four smooshed together. Yeah. Um, and, and did it that way. Um, so I wasn't able to get.

[00:09:52] I wasn't able to get a lot of detail because I had to kind of condense things down to scale. Um, but it was cool. It was an homage. I liked it. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I'm sure that. Um, so your sister's name is Caitlin. I'm sure that when she saw that she was like, Oh my God. Yeah. My, uh, my mom actually, when I sent it to her, she wasn't there in person, but she cried. Yeah. Well, mission accomplished. Yeah.

[00:10:21] Pretty spot on. Yeah. That's a pretty amazing thing. Um, you know, and your sister's an artist. Now, did your mom do art? She never considered herself an artist, I think, but she was a textile artist. She, we had goats, um, per her request. She, once, once she inherited her, um, family farm, they got a couple of cashmere goats that

[00:10:47] they bred and she spun the yard and, um, she, she had a big loom and she, she was a weaver. Wow. Um, but she also, she, she had a keen eye too. She was fashionable. Like she definitely had aesthetics. She was an artist. She just didn't consider herself that way. Cause it wasn't like an obvious. Yeah. You know, it's true.

[00:11:15] I, I think, I think more people are that way than, than not really. Um, I like interviewing people like you who are just like, I don't know. I was just, I was doing this one thing. And then somebody said, uh, I can't do this. Yeah. Right. Can you step on up? I'm like, holy crap. This is a whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty mind blowing. It is pretty mind blowing. How long have you been doing it?

[00:11:45] So I think I'm on year. Gosh, I think it was 2012 that I started. What year is it now? It's, it's, uh, uh, 2025. So yeah. 13 years. That can't be true. That can't be true. It might be true. But that would be true. I don't think it can be true. I don't think it can be true. I don't think it can be true.

[00:12:15] I don't think that can be true, but maybe it could definitely. Okay. So we'll say 10 years at least. You're like, you're like, wow. Yeah. I think when you're having fun, man. I think I've been professional for 10 years. So yeah, I think that does add up. Gosh, that's wild. That's great. That's really, really cool.

[00:12:39] So I would imagine from your first time, it, it proved a lot of learning right away. Um, so, uh, I'm sure you have a litany of gear that you bring with you now and preparation. I do. Yes. Well oiled machine. Um, and now I'm at the point where like, I figured out what works for me that I'm stubborn

[00:13:04] and I won't, I won't try anything else that's new, but I'm, but what's cool is that as you're interacting with artists and they're also trying their own stuff for what works for them is that I'm still like always learning something new, whether or not I take it on for myself, it's a different story, but I do, I learned something new almost every festival I go to. Um, yeah. How many do you do a year? It depends.

[00:13:34] Last year I really dialed back because I had to get a new car. And the thing about the thing about these, uh, festivals is that they, they pay you, but it's as a reimbursement. So unless you have the funds up front to pay for your flight, yada, yada, yada. Um, so you can see where I was like, I, I need to hold on to everything I can this year.

[00:14:00] So anything that I could drive to with my new car, um, is what I did last year. And I ended up actually evening out about the same amount of festivals. Um, quite a few are in New York. It's like when I left, cause I've been, I've been in the Pittsburgh area for almost five years now. And it's like, since I left, I'm, I'm brought up there still. Like my name is passed around. So I'm like, sure. When I leave is when you like, I get frigging booked out here.

[00:14:29] But, um, I say I do at least 10, I think, um, festivals. Yeah. Yeah. Um, many of them are ones I can drive to, but then I like to go and do one of the further ones, I'd say at least three times in a summer. I really went all out the year before, which helps me mentally be like, you know what? I can, I can take a forever one. Yeah.

[00:14:58] Where I calm things down a little bit. Um, cause I ticked a few new States for me in when that'd be 2023. I went to Maine for the first time I went to Oregon. Um, and yeah, I, I probably won't be going that far, but there are some major ones run by, well, the chalk colleagues that do all of this. We're very much a family and it's really cool.

[00:15:27] So, um, one of them, he basically heads up all the Minnesota festivals. So he's like, any time that you can fit it on your schedule, consider yourself in. So I think I'm going to do maybe two of those. Um, and then I always do the one in Marietta, Georgia called chalktoberfest. Okay. It's considered the super bowl of the chalk world. Basically.

[00:15:55] I was going to ask you which one was like the, huh? That's the, huh? Cause it's also, it's international too. So then the chalk family expands and then, um, you have the, uh, quite a bit of people from Mexico. We have the Italians, Ukrainians. Um, there's a Japanese artist that comes in. Wow. Um, et cetera, et cetera. I think there's a, there's a Swedish guy.

[00:16:25] I never understand it, but he's cool. He does great work. Um, yeah. So that's chalktoberfest in Marietta. Um, is definitely like the event to go to. Um, so I usually, or. Uh, it has been, but they rescinded that, that last year and kept it more open.

[00:16:50] It, um, yeah, that's true because the year prior they had a theme, but I guess people were interpreting it like two different ways. So they're like, you know what, just do whatever you want. And they've kept it that way. So it's not a theme anymore. Um, I like to push my skill with portraiture. Mm hmm.

[00:17:13] And so I do a lot of characters that I've resonated with like throughout my life, um, or pop culture stuff, like, you know, whatever. Well, yeah. I mean, I think that one, you can get some really beautiful, um, reference shots when you, when you do that. And, um, also it, it captivates other people too, you know, like when you can hook other

[00:17:42] people in and it's something that they can recognize and, um, you know, something that can matter to them as well. I think that's really cool. Yeah. It makes it extra special too, when it is something a little more, um, further back in my day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just got asked this the other day. Like I did a technically a Zenial. Yeah. Right. Oh, I like that. Yeah.

[00:18:12] Um, it's millennial. That's right. Yeah. We're right on the cusp there. So one year I did Amelie and not everybody knows Amelie, but the people who did sure did recognize her. And then you have that, Hey, Hey kind of moment. And, uh, it's very special to me. It is. It's, it's very special.

[00:18:35] And also you can introduce your, you know, social currency to someone else too, which is nice because you know, everybody thinks that they just were born and life happened. And it was like, no, no, it's been going on for a minute. Yeah. Yeah. Minute and a half. Have you guys ever, um, uh, recreated kind of like a scene from Mary Poppins? I just had to throw this in there. I know.

[00:19:05] Um, no, I don't think anyone has recreated. They made Mary Poppins, but I haven't, but I haven't seen anyone like do the whole setup like that. No, that'd be really fun. If like, uh, even if Disney sponsored it or something like, you know, like invited everybody to the park and just had you guys all line up and do like a number, a whole other thing. They do have artful Epcot.

[00:19:32] And there are, uh, there's a string of chalk family members that go down every year to do artful at Epcot and they're smaller scale paintings, but, and it has, I don't know why they haven't made the Poppins connection to that. Um, but they kind of know that I said it. Yeah. They just kind of make it their own thing though.

[00:19:55] So I think originally it started out as recreating old masterworks and then doing like Disney characters in there too. Yeah. But this year I noticed it's a lot more open ended and, but it has to be on themes. So there's a lot of adventures and that kind of stuff. Yeah. Do you, I'm not a Disney person, so it's not really, but I think just, uh, I wouldn't,

[00:20:24] I wouldn't seem it more than just Mary Poppins. Like more of a, if I, if I were to be given license over this organization of things that I just put out there, if Disney was like, you know what, we're going to get you to do it. Um, I think it was just be like, you know, they had like the, the chalk, like frames on the ground and stuff like that in Mary Poppins. Yeah.

[00:20:51] I think it would be more like open it up to you artists, like pretty much, you know, whatever character you wanted to explore or, you know, a Disney movie. It, I mean, it could run because there's been so many Disney movies that are not even animated, but just let it be open or like, you know, you pick a character, but you interpret it. Whatever. And leave it open for you guys in, in a sense, but, but have like a whole like thematic

[00:21:21] dance performance that went along with it. As you guys worked. I can't. I think that would be really fun. Um, yeah, yeah, exactly. And you know, like have like, you know, they're like multiple dancers get in there and make it multidisciplinary musicians and stuff. I think it would be really, really cool. And then take pictures afterwards. I can't, I mean, why haven't they done it? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

[00:21:49] But you know, as a member of the community, I think you could write them and be like, Hey, you know what you haven't done yet? Yeah. Right. If you're going to keep recreating everything. Yeah. Let's, let's snap. Let's do this. Yeah. This could bring a lot to your park. Um, what are, um, what are, uh, I guess, uh, what are some of the things that you have

[00:22:15] to consider or what are some of the things that like, when you're going to a place that you really have to be aware of in general, cause you're out there, you're out in the street. Yeah, you are. And, um, so there are lots of different factors. Okay. Okay. I geek out about this stuff. So here we go. Um, it all, so you want to look at the weather forecast going into it. Sometimes you'd have to pick up a backup piece.

[00:22:45] Um, in case you know that you're only again, sometimes, so most of these festivals, they're, they're two day weekend. You get two full days. So if you know that you're going to get rained out one day, or that maybe you're only going to have four hours of work to do, then you might have a backup of a more simple piece that you can get mostly finished in that time that, you know, will mostly look good within a shorter amount of time.

[00:23:15] Um, not everybody does that, but I, that's wise. So, and then, um, Minnesota is always windy. So I'll change up. I have, um, three different types of pastels to use. Um, one is here are all my secrets. Okay, cool. Here's, here's my, my favorite and actually a favorite amongst the chalk world.

[00:23:39] I don't know the official lore, but I've heard that this company is made by a former chalk artist, street artist. And he just now makes his own pastels for whatever. And they happen to be the best for street art. It's true. It's called Mount vision pastels. Okay. There are four 50 a stick and they're like lipstick sized. Nice. Okay.

[00:24:06] The nice thing about them, you know, they're not cheap. I think I have at least a thousand dollars. I was like, she's going to come off her, her Intel, but it, it ain't going to be accessible to the average person. It's a, it's an investment for sure. And I think I have averaged out that each piece costs me $75. Um, and I'm working within, yeah, I'm working within like a, a 10 foot range.

[00:24:35] So the Mount vision pastels are very, very soft. Um, so a lot of people don't like to use them because if you have any amount of wind, it's going to move on you. So my, uh, my method of madness though works pretty well. Um, they, a lot of people will try to use, um, hair spray to kind of set the dust down.

[00:25:03] Cause essentially you're playing with dust at that point and manipulating the dust. Um, I don't like that because no matter what you do, there will always be little drips and every single drip creates a negative effect. Um, I don't like it at all. And also with the aerosol, if it's really dusty, you're going to blow that away. Right. So some people get away with it. I don't really fuss with it.

[00:25:32] Um, but the, the Mount vision, what I do is I have, um, I should bring my stuff. I have little mini erasers. Okay. So what I do is I, I learned the term I color block first. So I'll do it by values. Right. So I'll say, okay, I will do all of my highlights. Um, I work, usually it's a figure. So I work from the head down. Okay. That works well.

[00:26:00] So that way you can down your actual piece. Exactly. Um, and then I can move around it and then I can go on the outside perimeter to fill in the hair and the background and stuff. No problem. But I, so these little mini erasers, I'll color block my values and my colors and just how my brain works to create skin tones and what needs to blend with what. Um, so I will blend it with the mini eraser.

[00:26:30] This is where it really kicks up the dust. Right. So then, then I will go over with my hand, my bare hand and kind of pat it down. Um, I'll, I'll smooth it into the surface. Uh, concrete is the best. Okay. Love a good new pale concrete. It makes sense. It's the absolute grievous. Yeah. Um, if you, not so much. Now asphalt is not as fun.

[00:26:59] Um, but, uh, to rewind actually, I always prefer anybody that doesn't let you do it. Somebody needs to talk to them. Um, so what you do is you put a tempera base down first. Um, you can do, and many artists actually do full tempera. Um, paintings now with some controversy from onlookers. They're like, that's not chalk.

[00:27:28] Um, but you know, whatever it's, it's fast. Um, but I, I just do a black base. Um, because it helps to seal in any imperfections. It also makes a little, um, tackiness to the surface so that the dust has a place to grip. And when you smudge it in, it really fixes in. Yeah, exactly. Um, so I'm blending, I'm smoothing with my hand.

[00:27:58] And then if I have time and I want to do a fully rendered masterpiece, I will do that whole method to do the face, um, of just the mount vision and the blending and the sealing it in with my hand. Um, and that's usually good enough. Yeah. So if I get rained out at that point, whatever my pictures are okay. Yeah.

[00:28:24] Um, but given the time and if I know I have a perfect weekend, perfect conditions, no wind, nothing's going to happen. Then I go back over that, um, softer pastel base with a harder pastel called new pastel. It's a Prismacolor product. Okay. Yep. Um, and this is actually the one that I learned about in college. So it's, um, a thinner stick, uh, like a French fry.

[00:28:54] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a string French fry. Um, and it's harder. So I'll start cross hatching. So then I can really start layering color over top. And I have, I've only seen a handful of artists do this method, but it's how I learned in figure drawing and in college. Um, so then you can really get tone things down.

[00:29:18] Um, so I was starting, I had maybe a whole year or two where I did the Verdaccio layer first. Do you know about Verdaccio layer? No, please. Uh, talk about it. I wasn't sure if, um, in tattoo work, um, do you, do you know about using green tones for the base of skin tones? I know about that just with color theory. That was just, but I didn't know what it was called. It's the, well, the Italians call it the Verdaccio layer. Okay, cool. I'm glad to learn something.

[00:29:48] It takes a lot for me to. You start out with, um, your green values. So it's your whites, yellows, and greens. And so you do the entire valuation of the face in that gradient of colors, um, first. And then you overlap with like your, your pinks, your reds. And it just blends. I'm laughing. I'm laughing because. Because I'm such a, I'm so sorry. I'm thinking about.

[00:30:17] Cause I did it. I didn't know what it was called. Okay. But I. So I did this big mural over top of this. It was an oil all the all. It was an old house and I had oil based paint. And so I had to do an oil painting. Plus it was above a, um, uh, bathtub. So it needed to have something that would repel water. Absolutely. So I'm doing it above it. And it's that classic picture of, um, the, the little girl fairy being.

[00:30:47] Kissed by like the boy Cupid. And it's like on checks and stuff. Yeah. Classic one, but it's like a zoom in of their faces. Okay. And I was doing just that. Like I was blocking it in real quick and I was putting all these greens and stuff like this. The owner of the house walked in and she was like, I could just see the panic. Yeah. And she was like, do you want anything to drink? And I was like, no, I'm good. Are you feeling well? I saw her face.

[00:31:16] The hydration. And then. It's so funny. She came back in after I started adding more and like, you know, like you, like you do, you blend it and stuff. And then she was like, Oh, and I said, don't think I didn't catch your face. When you want to. She has, well, I just figured it was paint. I'll paint over it. She was real cool though. That's so funny. No, it's, um, that's exactly it.

[00:31:42] Actually oils are very similar to the pastels because for that reason, you have the blending aspect, but then once it dries, you can layer over top of it. So it's basically the same thing. Um, so yeah, the verdaccio layer, it's cool and all, but I also was getting that feedback. Like when I called it the Frankenstein phase. So like kids would go by and they're like, why are they green?

[00:32:09] I'm like, Oh my gosh, I need some color in the stat. Um, but the main reason why I discontinued doing the verdaccio is that if there is wind, um, all of my top layers are not a fix to the tempera to the bottom. So the dust that was going or all of the extra layers on top of the verdaccio. So like I'd still have some of the color, but a lot of it would fade and they would look

[00:32:39] like sickly. So I don't do that anymore. No, no. Yeah. So what I've done is kind of reverse that so that I get what you see to the eye mostly as the softer base and then I'll cross hatch the greens over top of it. That makes sense. And I've also noticed that, um, like when I do the highlights and everything that way

[00:33:03] gets this kind of like true luminosity, like this almost kind of glimmery effect. It just, it's just like, there's a whole new quality to it that I've really come to adore. And I'm like, okay, I think this is, I think this is the way. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I love it. No. And that makes a lot of sense. Uh, to me, um, that's, that's the same in tattooing as far as like, you do have to do your bases, you know, like. Yeah.

[00:33:34] To get the most out of the color and you need to know how certain colors are going to interact with each other and how it's going to, you know, ultimately settle on the skin and all those kinds of things. And it is a hit or miss because sometimes people's skin types can do a lot of weird stuff. Oh, sure. Yeah. Um, that's cool. That's really cool. I love it. I love it. When I described it to, um, my sister, Caitlin, who was a tattoo artist, she, she's like,

[00:34:01] Oh, I've seen people do that when they're doing like tattoo portraits. And she's like, teach me color theory. And I'm like, you can look it up. Like, no, I'm not your teacher. I'm literally describing it to you right now. And she's like, I just can't visualize the green first. I feel like it would go really south. And I'm like, well, I, I don't really know how that would do as a tattoo, but I can see

[00:34:25] why some tattoo artists do it because if you're, it didn't click to me until then that tattooing is layering. So I was like, Oh gosh, no, I think that makes a lot of sense then. Yeah. And you absolutely could, but you gotta be brave. Yeah. You definitely, you definitely do. And, um, yes, by the way, to anyone listening, that is not an artist, there is green in the face and skin tones. Like there, there's a lot of that.

[00:34:53] Um, that's mostly what my clients come to me for is like, Oh, I love your color. How do you know? I'm like, it's there. Like really like just try to, I don't know if you have to squint your eyes or whatever, or just kind of really look at it and stop, stop. Yeah. Yeah. This thing that you have in your head. I think, um, well, and if you want to go deeper about it, we're all green underneath. Like there is no color. We're all green.

[00:35:23] Yes. Yes. Well, I mean, you can make the argument of any, I mean, definitely people who are colorblind think that way. That's true. Yeah. But I think mostly, I mean, to anybody who doesn't really get it, what it mostly does is it cuts down the saturation. Yes. So like if, if your cheeks, like my cheeks are really hot right now and are really red,

[00:35:48] but if you don't do the green at some point, they're going to be like, like, yeah, way too much maxed up saturation on your phone. That's basically what you're going to get. If you don't tone it down with grays or greens. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, and, and that, that's very obvious when you're painting because most things are not that high potency saturation. Yeah. They're more subtle, subtle and mobs and, you know, muted tones and things like that.

[00:36:19] When, when things are my art teachers used to always say, don't use pigment right out of the tube. It always looks like you just took it right out of the tube, unless the whole painting and your whole style is going to be based. That's the other thing is that like, sure, you can make it more saturated if that's the style you're going for. I just, I aim for realism because I like the challenge of it. Yeah. And I do think that, um, you know, not, not to debase other people or not, it is a very

[00:36:49] high challenge to do realism and it's very meditative and things like that, you know, but I also think that it's something that when people think about art and artistry and drawing and things, that's where their mind just specifically goes to. Yeah. True. Yeah. So it's just something they're like, Oh, you're an artist. Yeah. You're really an artist. You're really good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:37:13] Even though I'm like, I've actually, I've done a lot of, uh, ruminating on what about chalk like really does it for me. And I have my like bougie answer that has been in my back pocket for years.

[00:37:37] But when I really, really went into it and dissected it is, um, the positive regard when you do a good job, I don't have a lot of sources of that in just like my small sphere of everyday life. So I really, that's fuel for me. It's, it's like that, um, Mike Mulligan and a steam shovel kids book. It's like, if someone's watching, I work a little harder and a little faster. And it's absolutely true.

[00:38:04] And it just, uh, it's a joy that way because I'm not only just challenging myself to meet the vision that I have in my mind, which is the, my reference is like as close as I can get to that by the end of this good photos at the end, I'm satisfied. But if that's the other nice thing about doing characters is that if somebody recognizes who

[00:38:27] it is without having anything on there, then you know, you know, yeah. And that's just like extra yummy. Yeah, no, I would imagine. I would imagine. Now, do you, do you interact with people as you're doing it or do you like wall in? I do know I did a year where I like had my earphones in and just like jammed out to my stuff and was dancing around.

[00:38:52] But I, uh, unless I'm really feeling insular, which I have those moments. Um, I haven't in a while though. I, because like I said, I, I'm a loner. Like I really don't socialize too much. So the festivals are my chance to kind of have these really genuine, nice interactions with

[00:39:19] people where other than taking pictures, you're getting them off their phone. You sometimes engage in some real discussion. They're really into what you're doing. You're really into talking about what you do. Um, and it's just like, just like the art itself where it's temporary. It's this beautiful thing in the moment for as long as it's going to be there. And then it's gone as a memory. And that really is true for every exchange that I have with people.

[00:39:47] So I take the headphones out now because you never know. I've learned that you never know when you're going to inspire somebody. Um, and it's, and the kids, especially because this is something that again, I didn't know about until I fell into it when I was 30 some years old.

[00:40:05] Um, so if I can plant that seed sooner in somebody and inspire, um, the next generation, like this is something that I, I make almost half my income doing that. And it's a passion work. So if, if that, if I can kind of seed that into somebody early on, uh, I think that's pretty awesome. Yeah.

[00:40:36] Um, so I, I don't shut myself off anymore. I'm like fire away. I, I know my speed. I'm, I'm actually notoriously fast what I do. So, so I don't sweat not being able to catch up or get it done or whatever. Um, so I, I, I allow the time from like fire away. Ask me what you want. Yeah. That's awesome. I love that. I love that.

[00:41:03] Um, if, if, uh, I mean, speaking of that, like if somebody wanted to pursue this, you know, you went to art school and, and studied, I'm sure multiple disciplinaries forms of art and stuff, but like if somebody really wanted to concentrate what worth, what would beyond foundational art, which I think everybody should have. Yeah. Um, but beyond that, what do you think that they should really explore or pick up or try to do? Figure drawing class. Yeah.

[00:41:29] Like no, no matter what that actually was, I went to school first for psychology. I had a really bad experience in high school with my art teacher that like turned me off completely. No, it was horrible. That's horrible. It's horrible. He got his car. It's okay. Um, but, um, midway through, I had a geography teacher who was married to somebody in the art department and she was like, give it, give it a shot.

[00:41:59] It's really, it's a really good staff and everybody is very supportive. And, and I did what I sometimes do. It just completely took the jump. And, and, um, I kept psychology as a major, but then I also picked up art as a major. And, um, they, my first class that I was scheduled was figure drawing class.

[00:42:23] And it was a mistake because I was supposed to have two drawing prerequisites to be in this class, but no, I was thrown right in there and I didn't say anything. I was just like, you know what? It actually, it powered me up to like, okay, I've got to do like, I got to do this. Um, and, uh, like I said, that's when I, that's the class where I discovered.

[00:42:49] So we basically started by doing a different medium with each unit as we, and then the poses would get longer. And, um, once we happen on pastel, something magical happened where like, I got it and I was making my, my best work and some of the best work of the class. I'm going to say that without an ego. No, that you shouldn't have, um, you know, any, you know, hesitancy.

[00:43:19] It is what it is. Um, yeah, I feel like, and maybe this will help somebody out there who feels the same way. I feel like, um, art and being proud of your art and taking ownership of the quality of your art is very much like a chef because like, you're there to make good food. If it's not good, it's going to be obvious. You have to like it and think that it's awesome or else nobody else is. Yeah.

[00:43:49] So, I mean, you just have to be like, yeah, this is a great plate. I made it super yummy. Enjoy. It's the same. It's the same thing. Um, so figure drawing class was definitely like, boom. Um, I, I learned so many just through the different modalities. I learned so much, but then, um, just a lot of fundamentals figures are everywhere.

[00:44:17] I mean, you don't have to be a figurative artist to appreciate the work that's being done in figure class. Um, but chances are someday you're going to want to draw a person. Yeah. Um, and I, I just think that's a great place to start. Now, was it, um, I'm, I'm curious because I'm, I'm entering a new realm that, uh, I've been thinking a lot about, but, um, just kind of analyzing the education part of it a lot.

[00:44:45] Um, was it all nude? Was it not all nude? Was it? It was all nude. Yes. I do like, um, nude figure drawing just because I feel like, uh, uh, I don't know. It does something else too, but I'm looking at it from, I'm looking, I'm trying to look at it from more than just the artist standpoint. I've actually been a nude model myself. I have too. Yeah. So yeah.

[00:45:11] And, um, I'm, I've, I'm, I'm going to maybe this will be something that my, my audience and you will appreciate, but, um, I'm going to approach my pastor. I already approached his wife about this because I was like, you know, I never felt anything bad about it. I entered into nude modeling. Actually. I saw nudes my whole life. My mom never sheltered any of that. She was whatever, man. Yeah. I put, I pushed you out. I don't know.

[00:45:41] Right. She didn't want her friends like just randomly coming over, but she just walked around and very free with all of that. And yeah, we never attached any sexuality to it. It was just nudity. It's a body. Yeah. And I think it's good to desensitize those things just because, um, I grew up in the, um, the hair world and massage.

[00:46:09] And my dad used to always call it the sensual arts. He's like, you know, it's sensational. It's about atoning people from a place that sensory, but not sexual. And everybody wants to take it to this level. And that's problematic because there's so much healing that happens with people when they can just be in a certain state and not feel like it's going to go to that place. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:46:36] And so I'm, I'm grappling with it right now because I'm like, is this bad? Am I commoditizing a person? Am I trying to like use a person, but in the times that I've done it, it didn't feel that way. I think it's important to not confuse it with, um, shame because then when it becomes, oh, is it sexual? You're attaching sex with shame. And I don't think that's a fair place to start either.

[00:47:05] Um, but I like it from a pragmatic standpoint, because if somebody is draped, even loosely draped, you're not going to see the form in its purity. So when you're, if you're focusing on practicing and really getting a, a, a, a grip on form, you need to see all the edges. You need to see the muscles. You need to see.

[00:47:35] I 100% agree. And I also, I found so much more ownership of my own body. Yeah. Yeah. Given, given the model, cause we didn't have like the models we had, they weren't perfect bodies. In fact, the, the more kind of non-perfect they were, the more fun they were to paint. Yes, exactly. We had conversations with our new mom. Like they were people that were there with us. You know, it wasn't like they were just being used.

[00:48:03] They knew everybody was in a very equal and loving. And I think, um, you know, fair space. The thing that my, my pastor's wife offered up was like, she goes, well, you know, God asked us to have modesty. And so I'm, I'm, I think about that. And I think that that's more a rule of how we present ourselves. You know, when it comes to art, I feel like art is meant to prick ideas. Yeah.

[00:48:34] That are not about modesty that are about thinking beyond, you know, and, and being challenged. Um, so I'm still, I'm still wrestling with it. I haven't heard from my pastor yet, but you've helped me a little bit with it. And I love that you threw it out there because it kind of, I've been praying about it. Honestly. Yeah. And asking God. And, and I, I count you as a message with that. So I do think it's very essential.

[00:49:00] I'll follow it up by saying one, one more thing, um, in relation to this. And that is, I, when I think nude and detach that from everything, I go towards old master paintings and you either have, um, nudes where they've are completely relaxed. Like they're comfortable in their own skin.

[00:49:25] And I feel like that's modest because they're, like you said, it's, it's about how you're sharing. And in that art, in that scene, maybe they're not sharing. They're just in their own space and enjoying what God gave them. Um, and then you have the representations where they are either allegories of the sexual nature, but usually it's like distress or shame or some other act like that.

[00:49:54] So I think it's really interesting to see the dichotomy presented by the masters and how that is still kind of ingrained with how we visualize nudes, just kind of in general or nudity in general. Yeah. It's like, it's up to you to figure out, um, where the comfort is and how, how the discomfort is affecting you and, and, and why. Right.

[00:50:21] And then you can really delve into more around that. Yeah. Um, has anybody, I'm just curious because we're kind of going on this thread, but has anybody been brazen enough to invoke a new, a nude figure, you know, out in the public on, on a sidewalk, you know, like even classically? Or is that, or is that just like, we don't do that. And, um, in our, in our family Facebook group, we have put it out there.

[00:50:50] We're like, can we have a festival where we can do nudes? But it's like one of the number one rules. There's no politics, no nudity, no, like you, you can't put out messages of any kind. Um, those are actually the two top ones that has to be family friendly and, um, you know, universally accepted. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:51:15] Which is interesting because you, you never know, you pick some character for some movie that you really love and it means something else to some other person. And you're like, Oh God. What's scary these days is that you'll do like a character or an actor that's been canceled and that never happened. You think it's impermanent. Right. Exactly. Um, how long can they last?

[00:51:39] Um, so if you're doing a piece in just tempera that actually with, it's another reason why a lot of artists do that. Now it was stands months of weathering and it'll, it'll fade over time, but I'll come back to places where I have my base and like all of the chalk will have worn off, but my base will still be visible. Um, after a year. Wow. So tempera definitely has lasting power.

[00:52:08] The highly pigmented chalks, like the Mount vision does have some staying power. But again, as soon as your top layers of dust are gone, it's never going to be as clear. So a ghost of the image will be there. Like think of a chalkboard eraser. You write something, you wipe it, you can kind of see it. Yeah. It's the same kind of thing. Um, and that'll be like a couple of weeks maybe. Uh, that's pretty good. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:52:38] Yeah. But fresh is best for sure. I would think that you'd get a lot of beautiful photos as they're deconstructed, you know, like rain that comes right afterwards. And I wanted to do an art series of just the rain dawn stuff. Um, cause it, I think it's a different kind of beautiful for sure. The runoff. It's like a whole other thing, you know? Yeah.

[00:53:02] And as you said, it really does hearken to, to me, those intense, like sand paintings that monks do. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Kind of thing. Cause I do find it very meditative as it's therapy for me, really. Yeah. It's forcing you to stay in the moment for as long as you do it. Um, and there is not a lot of chance of that in the world that we live in.

[00:53:28] Um, so, uh, like while I allow for interactions with people, the act itself, like I do like to get in the zone and cook because it's really just like, huh? Yeah. And there's nothing else other than what I'm doing. Yeah. Yeah. Now, do you set up, um, do you just stay out in the open? Do you put like a series of like umbrellas? Do you like, do you, do you have to control all that or you just work with it?

[00:53:57] No, I prefer. So here's the perfect condition is if you have an overcast day with no chance of rain, uh, and the sun is behind the clouds. Yes. Because, uh, the sun can actually really blanch. It's your final pictures are the last hour, right? So, um, if the sun is directly on it, it's not ideal. But if you have a cloud go by, I always, I'm like, please, I'll wait.

[00:54:27] I'll wait hours until a cloud. And I, cause I swear to God, there were some days last summer where there was nothing and it was just blue. And I'm like, no, but another reason why that's so, um, valuable is that a lot of these times you don't have control. You're assigned your spot, right? Right. Um, and in some of these festivals, most of these festivals, it's on a street somewhere and you have buildings on each side. Right.

[00:54:56] So you get shadows throughout the day. True. If you're not lucky. And by the time you finish, you're, you're halfway in shadow. That's going to be a terror. You can't. Yeah. Yeah. So if you get a cloud overhead, the shadow canceled out. Um, but otherwise you have to wait until it's either completely in shadow or wait until the next day to get it when it's like back in sun. And that's just like, not always the case.

[00:55:25] So, um, umbrellas and tents are no, because you get cast shadows and the way my brain and eyes work. If, if my piece is impartial shadow and partial blood, like it just messes me up. Yeah. I would imagine.

[00:55:45] Um, but then also like, I like to get progress pictures and, um, now, now I'm learning that, um, if you do have a threat of rain or whatever, you can, if you, if you get good enough progress pictures, like an overhead, um, and then you get it mostly done at the end, you can composite that image at the end to kind of like piece it together.

[00:56:11] Um, so I, yeah, I don't like shadows at all. I like cloud. It's, it can be very funky. Um, but a lot of, a lot of artists do like to bring, um, understandably, like you cook, I've been on pavement that literally gets to over a hundred degrees. So hot. I have to sit on a special mat.

[00:56:41] I wear biker gloves, um, so that my digits are free, but I have padded palm. Um, because I'll, I'll get burnt. Oh, my ass gets burnt all the time. I'm sure that you have a lot of compassion for dogs, you know, walking around. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, Hey, by the way, get him out of here soon. Get him out of here. His poor Petey's pretty gnarly.

[00:57:06] So I understand the appeal of, of the tents, but it just, I'll never do it. No, it makes sense because while it might even, it might help you, it might hurt someone else. So, you know, you got to take a very community, you know, first hit. Yeah. A question for you. Do you, and this is just because my mind goes a million places. It's really dumb.

[00:57:29] I don't know if I have something wrong with me, but, but do you have like, um, like a personal hashtag that you do where if people take photos for you of your work, that they can show you the progress as you go online? I don't know if that's fully successful. What I do is I have, um, I've made my own custom shirt with my tag on it.

[00:57:55] So not my, it's not a hashtag, but it's my at Silph Art Studios. Great. So usually if like, I'm not positioned in a weird way, if they're taking pictures, my tag will be on there. And I think a lot of people find me that way. And then I always, I label my piece with that too. Um, so not so much a specific hat.

[00:58:18] I was doing, when I started, I, I had a, after the first one that I did where I got burnt to Chris, I started wearing a big rimmed hat. Sun hat. Yeah. So my hashtag was big hat chalk for a while. Um, but for traveling purposes. Windy if it gets windy. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so it's mostly my studio name.

[00:58:43] Silph Art Studios is, is the way to find me or find other people. Usually they'll, they'll post it to their story. Yeah. Um, and that's how I love them. I love that so much. I'm like, yeah, I don't have to do anything except for share this. Exactly. Thank you. By the way, we love that. Yeah. We love that. Share the stories, please. Yeah.

[00:59:09] Cause like you said, you mean you, you want to get that, that great, great, um, final picture, but it's so fun when people can participate and they can take action shots of you as you're going and doing. I love action shots because, um, sometimes, but not all the time, um, my son will come with me and he'll be my documentarian. But, um, most of the time I'm a one woman show and I can't get up and take pictures of me and I don't do the tripod thing.

[00:59:39] So like, I really, really love when people share progress for me. Um, I love it, man. Yeah. It's, um, makes life so easy. And sometimes they're just way better photographers than me. A hundred percent or have like better lenses. I love it. I'm always like, what phone do you have? I'm like, yeah. And then I'm, and I'm like, I'm never going to do it. Like I'm going to wait another year and then they're gonna have a whole other thing. Yeah.

[01:00:09] Terrible. It's terrible. Do you find that, um, the polarizing, um, lens, like the little, what do you call them? Polarizing clip ons help at all or no? I have no idea. Okay. I don't know that there's a, there's like a, I'll have to send you a link so you can, you can play with it. Maybe in tattooing. Okay. It's the same thing. Like, especially when it's freshly done.

[01:00:36] I mean, of course there's all this red behind it usually, but there's also, you know, it's on us, it's on a surface that isn't always flat. So if there's any wetness or anything like that, you get a glisten. If there isn't like canceling light. Yeah. Like you said, it's, it's better when it's just a cloudy day and you take them outside. It's like, yeah. Yeah. But you can't get that. No.

[01:01:01] So, and you know, worse when you have like sun and all this stuff. So one of the things that they have is these clip on polarization, like that you just clip it right over your camera lens on your phone and it takes out all the glare. Okay. We're going to have, I'll send you a list. Yeah. I'm excited about that. It might really help. Yeah, for sure. On those days.

[01:01:29] That would be good to not have to wait for it. I know. I just say, fuck it. I'm like, whatever, man. If people don't know my tattoos or want them by now, I don't even care. I might even be able to send you mine. Cause honestly, I don't use mine, Erica. Yeah. I have it, but I don't use it. And I really, I'll just send it to you. You're not far. Yeah. As long as it's getting use and you can play with it and say, no, I would play with it. Yeah.

[01:01:57] Is it universal for any phone or? So I mean, I don't know if, um, I'm not sure it's, it's like this big. It's like, uh, let's see. I'd say it's like a inch and three quarters, inch and a half at most, or at least. Does it stick on? Cause yeah, it just clips over. But the problem is, is those like some of the phones now have like three lenses that they comprise to make one photo. So they're like way above what I've ever had.

[01:02:27] Um, so I think I have two, I think I have two lenses on. Yeah. Well, I might still fit, um, but I'm not served. So you'd have to like play with it and just, you have to kind of fit it over those two. As long as those two are like covered with it, you should be able to. Cause that's the other thing is the only reason, the only reason I have a selfie stick is so I can get the overhead shot. Yeah. So it needs to be able to hook in with all of that.

[01:02:56] I'm all about hacks like that. Like that's great stuff. Great, great stuff. Very, very cool. Are there contests within your profession? What? Yes, there are. Um, so yes, there are. We, we don't, we don't love them. The neither do we. The best scenario is take that money and divide it among everybody participating.

[01:03:24] Give everybody a little something, a little stipend. Excellent. Yeah. Um, but there are some chalk festivals that they just won't do it that way. Mm. Even though we express these. That one. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and that's fine or whatever, but I got to tell you last, so last summer with the car

[01:03:50] and the festivals that I could drive to in New York, they're all competitions basically. Okay. And I won every one of them. Oh, wow. Yay. I mean, that's kind of, that's kind of awesome. It's, it's awesome and yay. But I also was like feeling the ostracization, if that's a word from the community up there. I was getting not so great looks from husbands by the end of this. Yeah, it was.

[01:04:19] And, and it was sucking the joy out of, I mean, honestly, it's how it is for me too. It takes away from all the positivity that I'm getting from why I love to do it in the first place. So this, I mean, winning money is great. It's fabulous in fact, but if I'm getting that from it, I, this year, I'm probably going to do at least a couple of those.

[01:04:46] And I've already emailed around saying like, can I get just a little something? Cause what I do is pretty. Yeah. You have a history now. Yeah. Uh, and like I said, every piece of mine is at least $75 for me. Yes. So, and I'm traveling. And you're traveling. Yeah. So I'm like, can I just get a little something and not compete and make, I would love to be a judge. Yeah. Oh, that'd be great.

[01:05:13] Just like take myself out of that completely. Um, but I haven't heard anything. The other thing to consider. The other thing to consider, and I think this is what our community ended up doing to make it's one person and, um, it's, it's really fun.

[01:05:42] And I think that's the only thing that has brought joy back to it with us is really, I mean, of course, that's what I love to just win. Yeah. Um, but I think that for the people that I know that are really good and like pushing the boundaries, that might be a thing to throw out there to them. Okay. How about since, since this was my track record last time and this didn't feel awesome. Yeah. Um, could I maybe couple with another artist or could we, you know, do something cool together? I don't know.

[01:06:12] It'd be cool, but yeah. Um, cause I think that that would be, or, or even have an event that way where you got people together because that really makes it fun. And as you said, you're always learning something and when you see somebody else do something that you wouldn't do, but that maybe works really, really well. Yeah. Um, it'd be kind of cool. I mean, I know you're strapped for space, so like, yeah, everybody's gotta kind of be, but it's the same in tattooing, man. Like only so many bodies can fit on the leg.

[01:06:42] Sure. Yeah. To keep switching and stuff. It makes it a little more fun for the people that, um, I think find ourselves in that. I say ourselves, but I have only had one tattoo convention where I did well. And the rest of them, I was just like, I don't, I don't really, I'll print out. I'll go get a trophy made. It's fine. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But there's not cash prizes with us.

[01:07:10] Sometimes there's tattoo machines and things that I, I think there would be more, uh, interest if there was, is there any, is it cash prizes and stuff like that? These ones are cash prizes. There are some of the festivals in Florida do like, they'll give away a whole sets of Mount vision. Oh, that's great. They're like, if you're getting a whole set that runs up a lot of money. So that's a nice, that's a nice prize for sure. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. Plus you get to be in Florida. Yeah. Right.

[01:07:41] Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure that's a way that you combat the cold, the cold time here. Yeah. Um, I, that's another reason why I love chalktoberfest is it's usually once it starts to get really nippy here and then I'll go down and it's back to 70 degree weather. I'm like, this is awesome. So good. I've heard great things about Georgia. I've yet to be down there yet, but I'd like to go and visit. It seems like a cool spot. Yeah. Yeah. It is nice people. Very nice people.

[01:08:10] What's something that, that, um, was beyond the sunburns and beyond the knee pads and like these, but what were some things that you didn't expect or that were really challenging? Hmm. So I'm not sure if this is a direct answer to what you just asked, but I'll mention that in the beginning, um, not being able to pick your spot and know what you're doing. Like what you're getting into.

[01:08:40] And, um, it's a parking lot. You, I have gotten some really gnarly spots where you don't even, it's not just cracks, which I've learned to embrace. I love cracks now. Um, but back in the day, I'd be, I'd request a new spot if there were cracks or oil spots are the baddest of the bad. I would imagine. And it's, uh, and back then it was no tempera.

[01:09:09] So the other nice thing about the tempera base is that if you do it enough times, it can cut, it'll seal that in, um, to an extent. Sometimes it still seeps through, but it's like your only hope against oil spots. Otherwise like there's no point. Okay. Okay. Listeners. I had to actually, uh, cut Erica off there. Cause that's halfway through.

[01:09:35] She does elaborate more and we do discuss oil spots on, on her perspective, uh, canvas, if you will, uh, more in the, in the following episode. And, um, yeah, it's, uh, it's such a great conversation. I really enjoyed this time with her. Um, it's just wonderful to know, uh, as a creative, how many different ways that you can express your talent.

[01:10:04] And, um, I also loved so much the similarities that she faces as, uh, us tattoo artists, what, what building her work is like, uh, the challenges as, as we ended with of, of what kind of, uh, uh, space you get to actually fill. As I mentioned in the, in the podcast, you know, sometimes skin can be that kind of challenge. You're not necessarily sure how that's going to receive and just all these different similarities,

[01:10:33] but also just, I, I love, I love, uh, hearing another person who's doing a otherwise, you know, very obscure job that it just has very similar notes and just wonderful ways that you find your, your way and into this thing that as Erica mentioned at the top, she just couldn't even believe how long she's been doing it.

[01:10:59] And, um, man, uh, I, I have to divvy these images up, but she has such a spectacular portfolio. Um, I'm hoping that I represent her well in, in the ways that I'm using her promotional materials, but, uh, she has just such a stunning portfolio. You can tell that she's been putting her all into this for so many years and that she really

[01:11:26] does keep honing her skill all the time. Um, um, next up, I think we talk a little bit more about, um, family and, um, that next pursuits, uh, other ways that she makes income. So, uh, stay tuned for all of that. Please come back next week. Um, but as it, as it stands right now, sorry, everyone, if you heard that, that person that

[01:11:53] needed to rev up behind me, uh, outside my door. Um, but next week, uh, we go into, uh, the rest of her life in, in some way. And, um, you know, just other challenges, thought spaces, potential collaborations, all that cool stuff. So, um, it, uh, it's, it's, it's quite a cool thing.

[01:12:17] And as, as we talked about her, her sister, Caitlin is also a tattoo artist. I would love to get her on at some point. I've been meaning to meet her for a very long time, but this, this was such a cool diary entry for me. Cause it was kind of personal in some ways, um, to get to meet Caitlin's family beyond her and beyond what she's already offered up in the beginning. She was, I think one of my number one fans.

[01:12:45] So to get to meet Erica and learn about her expression and share in her family, it's just such a gift. And I hope you all enjoyed that as I did. Um, there's more, there will be more God willing. Um, we're all passionate beings. And, uh, I think we're going to just keep on plucking man and, and seeing what life, uh, throws at us. It might be oil.

[01:13:11] It might be, it might be oil blots that we have to figure out how to work with, but you know, it's, it's cool either way. And the challenge we're here for. So it's all, it's all wonderful listeners. I thank you, Erica. Thank you so very much. Uh, you're fantastic. Um, she mentioned this earlier in the podcast, but you can follow her and I recommend you do at sylph arts studios.

[01:13:39] Uh, that's her IG handle and it's S Y L P H arts studio. And I do believe that I spelt that correctly. Uh, yeah, I will have a visual representation of it. I'm fairly certain that I spelled that correctly. I am not a good spelling bee person or speller in general.

[01:14:09] Um, it's a pretty cool name. Uh, and we don't really dive into it. She does, she does, uh, talk about it briefly, but we don't really explore the name, but it's a cool name. So now, you know, sylph art studios is her IG handle. And she also has a fabulous website. Um, check out all the things. Uh, I'm very excited to present Erica Lolita to all of you. God bless you all and have a powerful week.

[01:14:40] Thanks for listening. You can find the apprenticeship diaries on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Our IG is the underscore apprenticeship underscore diary. If you would like to offer constructive criticism or an interview, drop us an email at theapprenticeshipdiaries at gmail.com. We look forward to hearing from our listeners.