Ep. 204 "Ticks, Birds & A.I." (2:2 Diary Entry with Gabe Ripley)

[00:00:00] Happy Tuesday, diary listeners!

[00:00:04] Ah, it has been a cool week. I have to shout this out. I did a little bit my stories before

[00:00:12] I get to part 2 with Gay, which gay but I hope I know you're gracious enough to let me

[00:00:16] do this. But this is for you too when you listen. Go see the movie Cabrini. Unbelievable,

[00:00:23] it's honestly one of the best films. It's the best film I've ever seen. So that first,

[00:00:29] my plug, we're going to start right out with it. This is part 2 with Gabe Ripley. We're

[00:00:36] calling the second piece of his diary entry, Tix, Birds, and AI. Enjoy listeners!

[00:00:45] Welcome to The Apprenticeship Diaries, where raw needs were fine.

[00:00:52] Let's be real, we're still working on the fun. When it took, when it takes and the stories

[00:00:57] that are made. Join us as we learn from professionals about how their stories begin.

[00:01:04] What is it's hard to confront your anger like that? And it's hard to speak in those very

[00:01:21] emotional spaces. Communication is something that we're not really taught how to do well.

[00:01:30] Unless you're my wife's class? Yeah, exactly. I'm sure that's part of the reason why you guys

[00:01:35] were drawn together was all of those kind of quirky things. I don't know where she went but

[00:01:42] I definitely lucked out she was looking smart. But what I would say is like I wouldn't implore

[00:01:49] anybody listening. If you got a problem with anything or anybody just reach out to them first.

[00:01:55] You don't need to go to the internet. When Tattoo Gate was happening, I was like, man,

[00:01:59] I had some insanely awful business consultants. I couldn't even imagine going to the internet and

[00:02:08] being like, I can't believe it. My business consultant gave me some bunk advice. You go to them

[00:02:15] or you don't. Or you chalk it up and I get it like, I said I get it too. If there's snakes running

[00:02:22] around, we need to tell people hey, there's snakes running around the grass. So I'm not like

[00:02:30] I don't know. There's always shades. Everything's not a continuum. My favorite thing that I'm

[00:02:38] understanding that's not a continuum is consciousness or I'm believing I understand is consciousness.

[00:02:43] Yeah. Because people will talk about when we talk about AI or whatever, they're like, oh,

[00:02:48] computers don't really think they'll never be conscious. I'm like, I mean, we've talked about this

[00:02:53] before maybe I have a different opinion. I don't think that most people are actually conscious.

[00:02:56] At least not my definition of consciousness. They fucking go about their life. They barely

[00:02:59] think about what's happening. And then this could be me and my hubris or whatever.

[00:03:06] But for the most part, people just regurgitate the last thing they heard in the fucking TV anyways.

[00:03:14] And that's saying that computers are super smart or conscious or anything. I'm just saying

[00:03:17] there's a level of now there's animals that are aware that they are going to die.

[00:03:26] And then there's animals that are not.

[00:03:28] What are the lives that are aware? I'm curious. I didn't know those.

[00:03:32] So like elephants are more than their children. As a group.

[00:03:42] So stuff like that, as far as my dog is not like, I'll take he knows he's going to die.

[00:03:50] Yeah, but mourning is different than a consciousness about the fact that you will die.

[00:03:56] And I'm saying, well, of course, and this is here in Liza, they'll rub. We can't communicate with

[00:04:01] animals yet. I'm probably 8% confident. If I had, you know, I bet you two dollars that in 10 years,

[00:04:11] the AI is going to help us communicate with animals because it's just a language. They're just

[00:04:16] signals. So I guess my next question would be like, well, where is the litmus test to prove that

[00:04:26] something knows that it's going to die as opposed to mourning the loss of something, right?

[00:04:33] So at your point, maybe just because they're mourning the loss of their dead relative doesn't

[00:04:38] necessarily mean that they understand that they're going to die. On the other hand, if we were able

[00:04:42] to talk to the elephant, they might be like, yeah, yeah, my fucking bro died. I don't want to.

[00:04:48] You know, this is crazy man. Like I didn't know that was possible.

[00:04:53] What do I get?

[00:04:53] What do I get? In my mind, at least in my understanding, it's all happening on a...

[00:04:57] It's not a Roth.

[00:04:59] It's not like you're going to conscious or not.

[00:05:01] Because here's the thing about that. I don't think that when people exist for moment-to-moment,

[00:05:12] they are conscious of the fact that any moment they could die. I think that we are not even to

[00:05:19] that level yet, and I don't think that that's how we act. I think that a recent commission,

[00:05:25] and I have to get this tattoo. One, I'm just in love with this guy's work, but I just recently,

[00:05:30] and I don't have any business getting tattooed right now, but I have to get this tattoo.

[00:05:36] I want to get death and a maiden, because for me,

[00:05:41] keeping a symbol on your body or a representation of how potent death is to your experience

[00:05:48] of life and keeping that in your heart and your mind. See, just reminders to yourself

[00:05:57] that this day could be your last. This moment could be your last. It's like you said,

[00:06:02] if I'm not living right here and now in a way that I find the most integral,

[00:06:07] that's the rub. I'm in hell. That's creating hell on earth. I need to live

[00:06:15] in the ways that I feel the best. I have to make decisions that I feel is the best,

[00:06:20] because at any moment, this could be it. I agree with you. We found that out in COVID. I don't think

[00:06:29] most people are conscious of the fact that this could end at any point.

[00:06:37] It's a horrible fact and the brain's not designed to deal with that. I do think about it very

[00:06:44] regularly, and I get not to talk about it to bring it up to the children. It's not more bad.

[00:06:48] I think it's something that can give you a lot of peace and a lot of self-awareness. Like you said,

[00:06:55] I need to be aware of who I am, what my roles are, what my gifts are. It helps you cut the fat

[00:07:01] because if you know that you can't... You only have a fine amount of time. You're not even aware

[00:07:06] of how much that is, then you've got to make choices, man. You've got to make some very distinct

[00:07:11] choices. In some ways, tattooing... I love tattoo. I mean, I really do truly love tattooing. I feel

[00:07:16] like it's such an amplified slice of the human nature. It's very difficult. Like tattooing is one

[00:07:24] of those decisions that you will make that affect you both tomorrow, today, in the moment and

[00:07:31] on your deathbed. I try to use the decision-making process in my real life. Obviously,

[00:07:39] a lot of the decisions that we make are going to affect us on the short term and on the long term.

[00:07:45] Trying to get into that sweet spot of like, wait, this isn't going to keep both of those

[00:07:51] effects in mind, right? This is both temporary and long-lasting. You know, this is both exceptionally

[00:07:57] important and pointless. Yeah. It's like today could be the very last day. I have to live it

[00:08:04] like I want to... Before we get hit by a car. I almost got hit by a car about six months ago.

[00:08:09] Oh my god. Had my headphones on, walking down, fucking switching my podcast, and fucking

[00:08:16] a third of my view was a fucking, you know, half-time truck. I didn't point your my nose

[00:08:23] but we couldn't hit my fucking nose and I was so stunned. I didn't even flip the guy off.

[00:08:28] I was just like, holy shit, and fuck a ball. And the right idea I was there. And I walked

[00:08:33] about another half block up and there was a guy on the sidewalk. He was fucking pale white.

[00:08:38] He was looking at me like I was a ghost. And I was feeling like I was a fucking ghost. I was like...

[00:08:43] I thought you were dead, bro. You was like I can't believe that happened. And like I can't

[00:08:48] believe that happened. And he's like I thought I'd watched you're gonna get squished.

[00:08:52] Right. Because from his perspective I was walking and then the truck was...

[00:08:56] Yeah. So you just thought you'd lost people like to off. And you know,

[00:09:03] we know people that will get hit in car walk and an accident walking accident.

[00:09:09] And I do feel like I've kind of been... I mean, I felt like it before then but now I'm like man

[00:09:15] that was a death date. Like if I was a little bit faster...

[00:09:19] You know what I was thinking. I was like how would I survive that? And then when I talked to the guy

[00:09:22] I was like I was like I don't know. I don't know if I would have been able to survive or if

[00:09:27] I got hit and you was just like... No! No. Dude, I was about to see you become...

[00:09:35] And so... It's a... It's black.

[00:09:39] That's it man. Like I'm like man, like how quick...

[00:09:42] These brains are fucking the miracles of electronic, you know,

[00:09:49] wooju. So all of a sudden there's a me and all it takes is you know a little squishy,

[00:09:55] squishy and it's no more. And um... Well I don't know.

[00:09:59] And I'm happy... Well no, we were talking about AI and I do think it's a good place to

[00:10:06] kind of revisit that because and I'm happy that you are at interested in this because like

[00:10:12] I said whether you feel you are or not. I do think that you're an optimist in a lot of ways

[00:10:18] and I do think that your aim is to engineer stuff that is about the betterment of people.

[00:10:24] Now however that will work out. I mean it's kind of like Elon Musk. He's like you know what we're

[00:10:29] going to create it. We're going to do it for this intention. Now how it will be...

[00:10:32] For me and that room, he's like... Well I know but how it will be used, you know we don't know.

[00:10:37] It'll probably you know like that's the thing is that I think that a fork can help you eat your

[00:10:44] dinner or stab somebody with it. You know you can use it either way. A tool you know hammer

[00:10:50] help you build something help you murder someone so it... You're gonna have these tools and with AI

[00:10:56] the consciousness what that will create I mean it'll just call us to scale in different ways.

[00:11:04] Much like the internet has had too so I would love to have you open up about your... Because you seem

[00:11:10] excited about it. Well they... I mean I love it. I think I... I mean I've been you know 92 93. I was

[00:11:15] taking you know AI classes on a computer program or right? Yeah. It's amazing. You know there's no

[00:11:21] question about it. You know it was... Although that said like at this point...

[00:11:29] Something I'm working on on a project with sent me over like a poster image and I took one look at

[00:11:35] it and I was like fucking dude like this is not a picture of the spot you know this there's what's

[00:11:42] going on here and he's like oh you know I had mid-journey go after it and I'm like you could tell it

[00:11:46] was utter... Yeah. I mean I was a little surprised. I'm like I you know my mind it was utter crap

[00:11:50] like I would never conceive of using it. Right and then there was another fellow Jordan Harbinger he

[00:11:56] does a podcast and a podcast she interviews a lot of cool people and he was like you know I had a

[00:12:03] head... I mean maybe it's because he said he had GPD make the intro that I was cute up and ready for

[00:12:09] it but as soon as he said that and I'm listening to the intro and I'm like yeah you could kind of tell

[00:12:14] you know and so for creative uses you know obviously it's great for ideation but uh and it's also

[00:12:25] when it's infancy so you know 10 years from now is gonna you know be hammering out you know art

[00:12:30] you know at the same level as Alex Gray it's possible I guess but for me it's really about the

[00:12:40] large amount of data that it could sort through right I think I was saying for me it's like it's

[00:12:45] kind of cool to have some stuff in the tattoo but we're gonna be able to speak to fucking animals.

[00:12:49] Yeah well I mean not to go into a space that seems upsetting but you know the utilization

[00:12:59] of it and what Elon hopes to do is to repair people who you know their brains are not firing

[00:13:06] signals to help them walk anymore so he wants to work with people who can't walk anymore and give

[00:13:11] them new life so I think there's a lot of hope the the issue that I see is of course um the realization

[00:13:20] that AI will have I feel very confident that we are an inferior uh an inferior uh product.

[00:13:29] Well I mean as far as like the doomsday scenarios I'm definitely more along the lines of uh

[00:13:37] it probably is gonna you know be more like a relevant potentially what was the quote like the AI

[00:13:44] doesn't love you it's okay the AI doesn't hate you but it might have better use fear atoms.

[00:13:49] Yeah um you know we don't care about ants or most of us don't we don't care I mean even if

[00:13:54] for vegetarians you still swat and flies and drive around cars you know um

[00:14:00] you know the AI uh but you know it it we'll see I mean I'm not super scared

[00:14:05] I'm not super scared that there's gonna be like an AI like a how you know I'm sorry I can't

[00:14:09] open the door for you you know I don't necessarily see that or skate like like

[00:14:18] I mean obviously we don't know right right right right it's just going fast you know but for me

[00:14:22] that the real scare is going to be uh well it's really the empowerment of of fucking assholes

[00:14:31] without the responsibility right like like like like a nuclear bomb takes a lot of

[00:14:35] fucking energy and effort now it's still 1940s technology right so it's it's it's three rocket

[00:14:40] science I think right like it's not even rocket science right it's just like science science yeah

[00:14:45] but it takes a lot of energy effort you need to like you need to refine that the uranium you know

[00:14:49] it's not it's not trivial to get it um but with AI it's like if you know there's there's

[00:14:56] you know the the unbridled AI right like we've played around with it like if you go to like the

[00:15:00] the computer scientists that are on the other end of the chat GPT that that don't have the

[00:15:05] safeguards you know you know we go to it say hey could you please write out a year season of episodes

[00:15:11] for a tattoo YouTube show so that I don't have to okay boom maybe go shh shh

[00:15:15] even else we got it now make that better now make that more like a twilight zone version

[00:15:20] yeah um now on the other side of it there's computer the scientists can say please explain

[00:15:25] how you would eliminate the human race in as few steps as possible now could you do that in a

[00:15:29] creative way now do that like the Joker would do it right um with the same precision with the

[00:15:36] say you know now it might come up with some fake shit too it'll hallucinate so so maybe

[00:15:40] of the 10 steps it says to eliminate the humans like step number eight is just weird right but

[00:15:47] for me the scare is more like you know bad faith actor I mean and again I'm you know we're all

[00:15:53] pretty aware bad faith actors can use the internet and use these tools at scale that really fuck

[00:15:59] shit up right and so I my gut says that before we have an art in a you know a real artificial

[00:16:05] general intelligence that's smarter than human beings it decides that human beings don't really

[00:16:09] matter anymore we're gonna have an asshole human being you know fuck it up for us first oh we are

[00:16:14] yeah we already have that we already have that we're close but we're good you know but we get

[00:16:19] they don't have the access you know you know they don't put it access to it yet right we're working on

[00:16:24] it um and then we'll always be that I think but in the meantime I'd like to use AI

[00:16:30] yeah i too ours could just answer people's questions and book appointments right and that's the software

[00:16:35] that you have recently created yeah yeah it's part of the software that we've been using yeah so

[00:16:39] so we're using chat GPT4 um to basically create an artificial agent a front room agent so that if

[00:16:49] you uh you know call in or textin then you'll you know basically the AI answers you and uh

[00:16:56] it's it's right about I don't know 70 to 80% of the times you know maybe even 90% some of them

[00:17:01] right um which is great and it's amazing now when it's wrong and it says you know sorry the shops

[00:17:05] closed on Monday in the person's like I'm looking at your sign it says you're open in an hour

[00:17:09] and in a no I don't know what you're talking about you should go to fucking San Francisco to get

[00:17:14] your tattoo right that that real person gets really mad and the AI is really just making shit up

[00:17:19] right so that's not good but 90% of the time it's like oh yeah we're gonna be opening

[00:17:24] about an hour if you'd like to you know leave a message you know click a button or whatever um

[00:17:29] you know it qualifies people it's it's weird sometimes I get a little weirded out when it gives uh

[00:17:34] like piercing healing advice oh yeah you know but uh the last time I got a message one of the

[00:17:41] piercers sent me the screenshot was like this thing's fucking amazing I can't even believe it

[00:17:44] you know that's awesome um so it's pretty pretty tremendous now it's um it's weird because I'm

[00:17:51] like it's on a computer programmer so I'm used to saying you know line 10 print hello world

[00:17:56] um great AI right so you're like you know hey computer say hello world and it's like go fuck yourself

[00:18:03] wait wait no I just said go say hello world oh hello world you know um or I'll be like you know

[00:18:10] your hours are money to Friday 9 to 5 you know what are your hours you know are you open on Saturday

[00:18:15] yeah we're open on Saturday 9 to 5 no you're not you know but then I think to myself uh how many people

[00:18:23] have I trained in the front room right to answer the phones right answer the phones and then like are

[00:18:28] you open on Saturday yeah we're open at 11 no you're not we're open at noon on Saturday I told you three

[00:18:32] time oh wait you could tell a person three time you know you have to tell a person three times you have

[00:18:37] to give the person the handbook they read the handbook they answer the questions they have to have

[00:18:40] real world experiences to understand it correct so just the AI right it's weird so like you have

[00:18:46] to tell you hey I know you're wrong this is the right answer yeah and um it is really strange

[00:18:53] teaching the computer instead of programming a computer i'm sure i'm sure can we pause for just a

[00:18:59] second i have to pee so bad oh yeah please i'm gonna top off my teeth quick give me one second yeah

[00:19:05] thank you

[00:19:10] bless you my friend oh no worries i mean i just got a fucking monitor riser from the amazon and they

[00:19:18] shipped it without the screws so now it's like i have to now i have to shift the whole fucking thing back

[00:19:23] so that they could send me a whole another one back with the screws that can't just send me the

[00:19:27] screws oh man i don't want to fucking do all that it's my screws oh my god how about what are you

[00:19:37] gonna do and then you gotta repackage it and everything and that's the there in lies man like man i

[00:19:42] got to i got too much to do to i guess i'll just stack another pile of papers on top of my mother

[00:19:48] well and that's that is the the crux of uh you know trying to save time

[00:19:59] what my favorite quote i think Jason Leesor had recorded it from somebody but uh the long way

[00:20:05] is the short way yes yeah you just gotta do it right the first time but uh i have a question for

[00:20:10] you like you're talking about um teaching AI now uh of course all of your users are readily doing

[00:20:18] that all the time i'm sure um i don't know but do you pull in on the on the beta level do you

[00:20:25] pull in personalities like your wife your daughter to like inform this or anybody that um well

[00:20:32] you could i don't i haven't i probably be better i do like if they wrote out the answers it'd be way

[00:20:36] better than than me so so the way that the um the agents work is um we basically have three

[00:20:42] different spots where we uh create teach and influence the the AI agents if you will first is in

[00:20:51] the prompt that creates the uh you know the the the apply yeah yeah or not even the reply the the

[00:20:58] personality got you so for instance let me you know i could fire up my ava i call it ava ava

[00:21:06] ava ava the the artificial content of the ava like ava but ava but ava but ava my other favorite

[00:21:14] a i pun is um when i see a piece of a a i i i art mm-hmm it's i it's i i love it um so let me uh or you

[00:21:27] know what maybe go to a real no tomorrow i love it yeah i feel like ava needs a needs a t-shirt

[00:21:35] ava let me see here so i'm i'm trying to fire up the you know a sample uh here we go so uh a sample

[00:21:47] uh persona prompt creation right so first thing we do is we create the personality that the

[00:21:54] chat gtp is going to be right and it's really it's amazing because it's like it's kind of like uh chat gpt the

[00:21:59] AI it it's scoured the internet has like all of the personalities in a Ted right so it's got all

[00:22:05] the personalities and and the goal is to like carve out specific ones so for instance um you know

[00:22:12] you are you are ava the friendly assistant for no tomorrow tattoo no tomorrow tattoo is a custom

[00:22:17] tattoo in body piercing studio at one-thirty augustineav you know unit 44 blah blah blah your job is to

[00:22:23] answer any questions oh shit my fucking computer's gonna lose power sorry give me second yeah yeah

[00:22:30] we need that oh i love it i love the uh and this is the thing you know with uh okay there we go

[00:22:44] so okay so so so we go so your job is to answer any questions that you may have about no tomorrow

[00:22:49] tattoo that you have the answer to and then send them to the consultation request link which is

[00:22:53] you know in a link the first thing you do is introduce yourself as ava no tomorrow's virtual assistant

[00:22:59] then ask the contact for their name and then ask their email in case you get disconnected if the

[00:23:04] contact asks a question that you are not able to answer truthfully answer with i'm not entirely

[00:23:08] sure about that i will forward your question you know so it was on for like another two or three

[00:23:13] sentences like that right now you could um say things like you are you know sometimes you make

[00:23:18] jokes uh you know refer to the you know user by their name every third or fourth reply you know

[00:23:24] so you're basically crafting the persona and you give it the main jobs um and then from there we have a

[00:23:34] like a like a google doc that's basically a list of questions and then answers you know what are

[00:23:39] your hours money to friday nine to five you know uh who do you tattoo we tattoo anybody except for

[00:23:44] losers no uh whatever it might be right so we have our questions and answers and then from there

[00:23:50] what you know the AI gets created you know so so so say you tech do you want to have you play with

[00:23:56] it you've played with it a little bit um i you have used it i think to um ask me to do certain things

[00:24:04] for the seminar yeah oh yes oh man it was unbelievable for the tattoo convention i mean i got it

[00:24:11] like it like as one you know i had i had a lot of help i had you know but but i don't have a shop

[00:24:16] here anymore so you know from right he's tamped and i'm doing it all myself and um having people ask

[00:24:22] questions and having the AI answer the the answers to those questions right then there's a little bit

[00:24:27] of a conversation back and forth and then i wake up in the morning and i get to read the aftermath of it

[00:24:32] it's unreal i was good um but uh so yeah so so so and if you wanted to you could text do you have your

[00:24:39] phone out you could text it now shoot a text to uh four one three

[00:24:44] photo photo i'm not fast

[00:24:48] four one three six six six uh huh two zero three five

[00:24:55] oh my goodness all right hello and then you can just say hello and i mean i'll see you

[00:24:59] you may have played with it enough that i'd already shut off but uh both see me so so so now what

[00:25:03] happens is uh when you when you shoot that text over it's gonna it actually creates this version

[00:25:09] uh in the in the instance of this persona um and then it goes then it goes to the

[00:25:15] spreadsheet where it says you know depending on the questions that you're asking it does it have an

[00:25:20] answer and it'll reply and then um and then from there we have an emulator so we could like fire

[00:25:27] up a little agent and then we play with it we ask it the questions and then it answers and then

[00:25:32] we could edit the answers that it's giving us. Gotcha uh who is we when you say we who are the

[00:25:40] we that have emulator work so it's either me or the client it's either me or the client right so

[00:25:46] so you know um for instance no tomorrow you know the shop can log in to to touch you now

[00:25:52] and then they can go to their spreadsheet and say you know somebody asked me a question about

[00:25:56] you know can i get a tattoo if i got my arm chopped off or whatever no you can i get a tattoo

[00:26:00] if you got your arm chopped off. So so the you know the the clients that you know could craft the

[00:26:07] question and answers um actually same thing with the emulator they they go in there and they use

[00:26:13] the emulator so the login and yeah that would be a really funny podcast like if there was an emulator

[00:26:23] and you just had all of these like legit collectors around. You know that it's probably

[00:26:29] you know it would be a great way to you know uh uh to teach you yeah uh what like like like crowd

[00:26:35] teaching like so still one of the things that happens is you know we use it and then a week later

[00:26:40] you know again somebody asks you know are you open on Saturday and it says no and then we have to go

[00:26:45] and fix that like we could do a uh uh uh uh uh you know a crowd crowd teaching session but oh

[00:26:50] but i guess to your point like uh whose personality does it have what kind of wording does it use

[00:26:55] right um right now it's using my wording you know i'm tattooed now it uses my wording it should be

[00:27:00] using my wife or my kids like you were saying they're they're just better at it but that that

[00:27:04] really is kind of well two things one is you could write out all of your questions and answers

[00:27:11] and actually technically you should write them all out very dry right and then in your prompt

[00:27:17] you could be like you know say this in a way that Edgar Allen Poe would and we have you know

[00:27:21] when you know you could have your dude it's nuts so so you could say you know uh you know uh

[00:27:28] talk to your clients in the in a manner that Edgar Allen Poe would. That's awesome yeah

[00:27:33] now what i was when i was going through the programming of this right so for the invitations for

[00:27:38] paradise i have the invitations written out and then i was like oh before this actually goes out

[00:27:44] i could change the voice right so i could say you know say this in the voice of Alex Gray or

[00:27:50] whoever and um then i was like holy shit i can go and profile all the artists and then it'll

[00:27:58] create the invitation in a unique oh that's cool to that person right so whoever's into sci-fi

[00:28:05] could be like you know send the invitation to Guy H. H.S.S. and in the voice of Isaac Asimov

[00:28:09] send the invitations uh you know Amy and uh I mean whatever might be in and rams or whatever might be

[00:28:16] uh that's cool but uh um it's cool but it's also one of those things right it's like

[00:28:22] and again we're talking about the dark the dark the dark the dark side of it

[00:28:26] they there's currently people programming AI agents that will sniff out your social media profiles

[00:28:33] they craft a honeypot lure for you that's based off of your specific personality

[00:28:41] so now when you're swiping left and right your swipe i don't know which way is the right way to

[00:28:44] swipe but the right way you know but if you swipe accept you're very well likely talking to an AI

[00:28:50] in a at yeah an AI agent that's designed specifically for you right well

[00:28:58] don't talk to fuck with right so then it's like you know then they then the AI leads you down to

[00:29:02] okay now send me the picture of your private parts okay now give me your money

[00:29:05] well and I think that that really just that's about the consent right and and uh making sure

[00:29:12] that people are compensated for what they're being used for because it it really does on

[00:29:17] yeah these are scams like this is like so you know uh the dark net diaries is a great podcast

[00:29:23] for people who see too if they want to find out about how computer scammers work right again like

[00:29:29] the these are they're agents to get money out of people right so the the whole goal is to get

[00:29:36] compromising information from you and or generally from teenagers which is the hard part right because

[00:29:41] they're in the most you know some of the most vulnerable right right so so so for instance especially

[00:29:46] if you have teenage boys I mean anybody's teenage girls on the internet have to be protected too but

[00:29:52] specifically there's a agents out there that find like you know 11 to 14 year old boys

[00:29:58] they act like honeypots and then as soon as the kid sends a dick pickover

[00:30:02] they flip it like we're gonna expose you you know catch your money and send it to us now

[00:30:08] fair amount of suicides you know an unfortunate amount of suicides because the fucking

[00:30:13] kids are like oh shit I don't want to get exposed

[00:30:15] got you and uh and the parents I mean it's horrific like a parent doesn't know all the sudden

[00:30:21] their kids are fucking freaking out for two days and then kill themselves oh my goodness

[00:30:26] you know and again it's it's uh those vulnerabilities that the internet opens up that um

[00:30:33] you know yeah it sucks it's crazy because you really gotta well that's what my brother is actually

[00:30:39] really um very passionate about he really like to create a safeguard systems uh grappling with

[00:30:48] that kind of stuff um he really likes yeah I mean there's there's many modalities you know

[00:30:54] safeguards that exist within banking um you know that whole um uh what were they called um

[00:31:02] um uh the the digital what were they called the like big coins the um non-fongible

[00:31:12] um the NFT space and the idea of that and creating currencies and then making sure that

[00:31:21] there's secure currencies and that they're you know like that kind of um protections and so my brother

[00:31:29] is very passionate about like how do you um create you know solid profiles of people that are

[00:31:38] secure and and can trade securely with each other online and and things like that and safeguard it

[00:31:45] I mean it's a very complex problem but um he really I mean from what I understand because

[00:31:51] I'm always like Jared can you like can you make it dumber

[00:31:56] this is a rocket sorry me it's cryptology scale this so that my brain can understand what you're doing

[00:32:03] um but that's what he's very passionate about and uh right now he uh he does just work for

[00:32:09] a corporation right now but he's worked in many modalities and that's something that he has a lot

[00:32:15] of passion about and I do think it's there I mean you know for for whatever we complicate there's

[00:32:21] always going to be I think heroic people on the back end that come in and they're like oh well

[00:32:26] we got this new problem we gotta we gotta hack this and make this better yeah whenever a uh

[00:32:33] a couple of years ago I was freaking out a little bit I'm like guy fuck on the robot up dude we're

[00:32:37] dying hey I death done he's like yeah when he said I paraphrased my head he's like you know he

[00:32:44] didn't say he said something the effective you know the only thing that's gonna stop a bad guy with

[00:32:47] AI is a good guy with AI yeah yeah right okay yeah okay you know there are real scientists that are

[00:32:53] really trying really hard to keep us on the right path of this but um like I said it unfortunately

[00:33:00] feels like there's enough bad actors in the world um I can get access to it that uh yeah we'll see

[00:33:07] it's a it's always fight I mean again the ultimate goal is to help everybody um again we make these

[00:33:14] choices like so we want the fucking you know uh regulation on AI uh we could have you know if we

[00:33:22] want you know we just need to actually communicate with ourselves and actually understand and know

[00:33:28] and be empowered to do so I suppose well and like you said have that higher understanding and my

[00:33:33] church what you said when you were talking about uh getting your pre-roll and then getting angry

[00:33:39] and then like wanting to blast it you know having that um more mature nature to understand what

[00:33:46] what is the right process of handling that conflict is key within all of that um in my church we call

[00:33:55] at the peacemakers pledge which is basically you know we're not we're not gonna go right to like

[00:33:59] litigation if we have a problem you know like that's not appropriate most things you go to the

[00:34:06] direct person then if that doesn't happen then you bring in a mediator of some kind and you keep

[00:34:11] scaling the more that it there's just not a resolve that can happen and you have to be very clear

[00:34:17] that when it gets to the public platform typically nobody wins nobody's happy with the resolution

[00:34:25] that happens there if most people could understand that you know our court systems and everything

[00:34:31] they're thrown in there as a last-ditch effort or at least they should be because at that point

[00:34:37] both parties are not gonna walk away happy and they're probably never gonna talk to each other again

[00:34:42] that's not resolution but the lawyers are getting paid oh yeah and so that's what we got uh we got to

[00:34:48] kind of reverse engineer a little bit how can we take that power back from people who are

[00:34:55] really counting that we are volatile and that we are not thinking and not come back man I don't know

[00:35:01] like yeah it's crazy I mean I was watching you know as soon as the shit was blowing up with Russ

[00:35:05] somebody you know shot me a text and like dude this is gonna blow up like off the map then I'm looking

[00:35:09] at it and I'm like it's about money yeah like okay like this like how could it blow up that

[00:35:14] and then all of a sudden it was like oh and the thing is it's like you know

[00:35:20] like I like I don't know how you could avoid that like I don't like what what what what what say

[00:35:23] you know again it's not like rusted anything bad by like teaching people how to you know charge

[00:35:27] you know did the tattoo or charged too much further that yeah arguably I don't really know

[00:35:31] I don't care that much I didn't look at it that much right but even if you know even if you did

[00:35:36] again there's an issue there but like I don't blame Russ I mean I think that's what it comes down to

[00:35:41] is that you have to know the players involved and if you don't know the players involved I remember

[00:35:48] when I first started and it's how it happens when you're doing the right things you know

[00:35:55] the world conspires to stop you from doing your dream from from succeeding and so

[00:36:03] the the problem arises is are you going to know yourself know what you're aiming for are you

[00:36:10] going to listen to the crowd the crowd doesn't get to determine who you are it's it's just a moment

[00:36:15] no they do get to determine if you're in business or or how much anguish you go through right like I

[00:36:20] mean obviously and man I gotta say like well you know that from a very palpable place

[00:36:27] uh it's tough like you know uh and that's and that's the crazy part right so it's like

[00:36:33] rusted get fallout like whether we think it's right or not and whether we contribute it for

[00:36:36] for decades or not um you know this is fucking people on tiktok that are you know just spouting

[00:36:41] off shit and then and it affects them you know and it affects everybody that he works with and

[00:36:45] it affects his family right yeah and um like I and he didn't lie no no there was no court there's

[00:36:51] no like there's no like none of that right well I think that's the problem though is that uh

[00:36:57] you know this this is a wild west kind of space the internet and it's not

[00:37:03] enforced or regulated because you know like for instance I know a software engineer and uh he's

[00:37:10] had to work with lawyers before and he's like it's it's awful it's like he's like the worst thing ever

[00:37:16] he's like because you know they're they're doing their thing and I'm trying to explain to them

[00:37:22] how all of these things happen to reinforce their cases that they're trying to make

[00:37:27] but they're in this completely other space with their mindset and and I'm trying you know like

[00:37:33] working with them it's it's it's impossible he's like it's so it's so upsetting um because that

[00:37:41] their focus is not where it should be in a lot of ways it's hard for me to break it down but basically

[00:37:47] you know not a lot of people who are at certain places in our world are concerned about how

[00:37:57] these things happen and with engineers I know that's their bread and butter how does it work

[00:38:03] I'm trying to figure out how this puzzle is put together and that's key because if you're going to be

[00:38:10] you know defending that space you need to understand it they don't they don't understand it

[00:38:17] enough to defend it they don't know how that works and it's it's really you know in order to have

[00:38:24] the safe controls you need somebody who's kind of like good at litigation and the legalese as well

[00:38:31] as you know the software engineering that's a lot of freaking education yeah anybody

[00:38:39] you know it's uh like I love the precise nature of lawyers and and lawyering um but uh every time

[00:38:48] I've gone to court I've gone without a lawyer and got my ass kicked and then once I went with a

[00:38:51] lawyer and I also got my ass kicked because a lawyer was horrible um but part of me is like I love

[00:38:56] the like I like the mechanism I'm a programmer yeah like the law is like programming you know

[00:39:02] reality I suppose yeah oh yeah so he's up for interpretation right so like a computer you'd

[00:39:08] probably you know it's factual and it's logic and there's no deviating from it or you know

[00:39:13] whereas obviously the shit that comes out of people's mouths and lawyers and all that is you know

[00:39:18] crazy but um no you know it's uh oh I forgot where I was going with this except for

[00:39:24] uh yes my only thought is with lawyers it just brings me back to the businessy stuff like if you

[00:39:28] were a tattoo shop you need to have a lawyer on retainer yes and uh you know the the worst time

[00:39:34] to try to find a lawyer is two days after you need one right yeah yeah they're just as hard to

[00:39:39] find as good tattooers and they're gonna be booked up and fucking too much money um but

[00:39:45] they're important and I will say this is that uh you know on that all of this is um

[00:39:54] you know people always think that you can set a boundary and that's just it the problem is with

[00:40:01] all of these things with freedom with all of these aspects of us we think that it's just a concept

[00:40:06] that you can set and forget but they're not there are things that you have to constantly reassert like

[00:40:13] you said to the AI or to your receptionist I have to tell you three times it's something you have

[00:40:19] to defend exactly so we get exhausted by the fact that we have to constantly reassert these things

[00:40:28] that we have to take such a cute conscious accountability of these things but that's the work

[00:40:34] that's the work that that all of us need to do I think in order to elevate into that that place where

[00:40:40] we're better for each other and we're more understanding of each other and in all aspects of it but

[00:40:47] that's I think that's really the key is that the more that we can uh you know seek to understand

[00:40:55] one another ask those biting questions reassert boundaries have boundaries know what know what our

[00:41:03] limits are all of those things they're they're very interesting I find it fascinating I'm like a

[00:41:09] people engineer person like I find that stuff very fascinating but yeah I think that that's really

[00:41:15] the key within all of it if we're to use use this information for good is um and understanding that

[00:41:23] in that um briney brown she's a social psychologist um do you know of her no great you'll probably

[00:41:30] love her talks uh she did a really awesome TED talk um but one of the things yeah briney brown

[00:41:37] one of the things she wrote a really good book called daring greatly um but basically she uh

[00:41:45] she said at one point it was a very small clip that she did an interview and she said you know

[00:41:51] one thing that I've realized about people who are really compassionate uh and she's like

[00:42:00] in its annoying honestly because they don't even have that like jutsi that jutsi gossipy stuff around

[00:42:06] people like they're just so they're kind of just so annoyingly good and she's like you know

[00:42:14] because sometimes you just want that little bit of like you know where's your dark side let's talk

[00:42:18] about it she's like the thing that they all have in common is is boundaries you know you think

[00:42:26] that they have faith or they have religion but the people who are the most loving and um you know

[00:42:34] compassionate human beings are people who have boundaries very firm boundaries and they respect

[00:42:42] that and other people too so and and that's what a lot of people I think me especially i've

[00:42:48] i've struggled with codependency my whole life so developing boundaries understanding correct ones

[00:42:55] reinforcing them you know all of that that i hate it i hate the need for boundaries you know

[00:43:00] like this whole like why wouldn't god just want us to all you know see each other that that has been a

[00:43:07] thorn in my side my whole life it's just like why you know but like

[00:43:13] i guess it kind of reminds me there was uh i don't know a parable story science experiment i don't

[00:43:18] know what it was it was basically the uh the monkeys who had a uh uh take or something in between

[00:43:27] their nose that they couldn't necessarily get to themselves or they you know they couldn't uh

[00:43:31] maybe it was a bird there were birds uh and so the birds they had a tics on the nose and so they

[00:43:37] couldn't get their own tick right so they can't they can't remove their own tics so the other birds

[00:43:40] have to remove the tics and uh there there was like two or three different behaviors there was

[00:43:45] the birds that would just take the tics off of everybody mm-hmm there were the tics there were the

[00:43:50] birds that would not take any tics off of anybody right and then there were some of the birds that

[00:43:55] would take the tics off of the birds that would take the tics off of the other birds uh and

[00:44:01] the the birds that took the tics off of everybody regardless of whether they were reciprocated or not

[00:44:07] spent more energy died off yes you know because they're wasting their time helping people

[00:44:13] that weren't going to help them back right and uh now that's that i'm not saying that like don't

[00:44:17] help people they don't help you there's people that can't help us that we need to help but the

[00:44:21] the point was don't help people that won't help you back right and then the tics that never take

[00:44:27] tics off anyone didn't have anybody taking tics off them clearly they did because the ones that

[00:44:33] were just taken off and just randomly that's true i got you so they found them they found them

[00:44:41] i got you and so it allowed them to thrive so that's even a greater point is that by your

[00:44:48] indiscriminate removal of tics from anybody you are actually allowing for nefarious things to happen

[00:44:58] that's i think a grander point to that because it's not even about the energy expelled because

[00:45:03] anybody is like why i don't know yeah birds that died off yes but but a lot of people are like don't

[00:45:10] tell me how to live i choose my own pain i will die in the way that i find integral like i know what

[00:45:15] i'm doing i know i know that i'm doing a good thing but you're not because if you're not

[00:45:22] doing something with a sense of reciprocity and that's a that's a great parable because you know

[00:45:26] for somebody like me this is something that i've had to learn what greater evil are you perpetuating

[00:45:32] by what you think you're doing right um you know just spinning your wheels you know it's you have

[00:45:39] to know that and kind of to your point like you know of boundaries you know people you know kids want

[00:45:44] boundaries right like we're not grown up you know babies don't aren't like i was wild you know

[00:45:50] they're true for all yeah it's a fine about trees right and you know and if there's parenting

[00:45:54] that's inconsistent like sometimes they can go wild and crazy and sometimes they can't but there's

[00:45:58] no real rhyme or reason like that's not good for the human brain to figure out how to do things

[00:46:04] crap you know no of course humans also have a tendency to take those boundaries and use them

[00:46:10] manipulatively in for various reasons and all that's it so so you know there's no one

[00:46:15] size if it's all of everything but um boundaries are important you know and uh you know as a

[00:46:21] as a creator of spaces you know one of the things that we do is we can we create the

[00:46:28] environments like paradise or whatever we can here here's the environment you could play in

[00:46:31] the environment but it's a stack of deck environment you said it very um specifically and this is

[00:46:37] something i was thinking of is that the the key for kids that i found is they really just want to be

[00:46:45] seen and they want to be involved and i think a saving grace for me uh growing up was that i had a

[00:46:53] very interactive parent that um you know i had two i had the boundary setter and i had the one

[00:46:59] that was like nuts um but the nut one was the playful one and he would play with me

[00:47:06] and play is so key i think to the human learning condition um because it's yeah it's how you learn

[00:47:15] it's how you get to interact it's it's a simulation it's a video game it's something that you get

[00:47:20] to be put in without these violent repercussions that could happen in any other circumstances

[00:47:26] and it helps in skill setting that that rod and your abilities and i do i think that that is something

[00:47:33] that is very integral about paradise is that it brings us all together and helps us play uh in ways

[00:47:41] that we don't get to very often it's very like you know no so the grindstone get into my like tattoo

[00:47:47] or zone and like pre-short hype but then when we're all together it it is it's like we just get to

[00:47:53] geek out in like ways that we never get to and it's super fun yeah of course sometimes i'm looking

[00:47:58] at the schedule on i'm like you're forced to be playing from 10 o'clock in the morning to 12 o'clock

[00:48:04] at night with fucking three breaks for the half an hour for food i know exactly exactly as much as

[00:48:11] you don't like as much as you don't like sports i mean that's essentially what it is it's crazy

[00:48:17] yeah it's your own version you know who recently did a cool i guess i don't know if it's sports but

[00:48:28] pony pony lost into the 24 hour you know i think he was playing video game of thon or whatever

[00:48:34] for charity oh that's so cool like i do love that kind of stuff like to you know

[00:48:38] uh yeah

[00:48:43] competition is such a weird thing and i do kind of got to we both pop kind of boogie pretty soon

[00:48:49] you know competition in the in the tattoo world is i mean i guess it's a whole nother topic right

[00:48:53] it's it's crazy because it's art so subjective but it's like art on people so there's a

[00:49:00] there's a need to not not fuck around with where bad art is bad art bad tattoos are bad tattoos

[00:49:06] like and if it's gonna be on somebody then you need to be like that's bad because it's pretty

[00:49:10] on you you know and um and cut in competitive natures and stuff it's you know i we don't even have

[00:49:17] competitions that apperadise anymore yeah and uh which is weird because people used to love

[00:49:23] to try to compete at a spot where there's lots of people like that but no one cared like a

[00:49:28] apperadise no one like really care to compete for metals or anything you know you could like

[00:49:34] health city's awesome they've got great judges they've got great contest the guy everything so

[00:49:37] it's like designed for and i'm down with that um you know most of the competitions are just kind

[00:49:43] of bullshit anyways so it's like really hard to place any sort of value you know on on you know

[00:49:51] random you know competitions or whatever which usually just make some people feel like they're

[00:49:55] the best thing in the world and other people feel like shit um but uh there's a spot like healthy

[00:50:00] competition is great you know it's what your guys are so forward and you know so it's uh

[00:50:06] well it's level of the game you know like you gotta you gotta fall in love with the the doing

[00:50:11] of it and not so much the winning of it um you know and i think that if you're too attached to

[00:50:17] the winning i can get become very unhealthy yeah that's how it gets toxic yeah well and i feel like

[00:50:23] we touched on most of the points but um before we leave uh how would you first of all like

[00:50:30] what are the things that you would like people to look at uh check out how can people contact you

[00:50:37] best and um work with you and uh yeah uh is there anything ahead that you want to shout out

[00:50:44] so i guess uh we didn't really talk tons about uh the opportunities for other opportunities for

[00:50:50] education other than parents so first of paradise you know it's uh the flagship event you know

[00:50:54] tattoo gathering dot com um you know reinventing the tattoo and gaye json has been a an incredible

[00:51:00] influence uh or mentality over the curriculum over the locations we pick over everything you know um

[00:51:06] so i'd be remiss not to be like you should be you know if you're an apprentice apprentice hopeful

[00:51:10] or having a tattoo or you know reinventing the tattoo dot com i think you have a probably links to

[00:51:15] to uh you know so you can get a kick back uh i mean somewhere yeah i do um you know and guys really just

[00:51:23] as far as uh as a positive influence and a role model is out of control like you know i've

[00:51:30] offered him i haven't offered on my ever late you know blank check offers you know to guy

[00:51:35] like how much will it take for you to do something really cool with a really cool company and he's

[00:51:39] like doesn't even give a number because he's doing his thing um he's very cool uh you know there's

[00:51:46] there's been times where like the sharing part you know and the in the community part you know

[00:51:52] you know that's that's that's on you know from yeah anything that happens like that through me is

[00:51:57] is influenced from him like i'm like i don't get what fuck about people you all fucking mad

[00:52:00] i'm just gonna do my computer you think and he's like you should share with each other like i do okay

[00:52:05] get that out okay i can understand um but he's uh you know so there's almost like the

[00:52:13] the the when people go to paradise with it like there's like the lack of ego i mean there's an

[00:52:17] ego we're all pretty it's like a security go right it's like no one's like you know

[00:52:22] show boating or peacock and or anything you know and then you know again it comes from him

[00:52:27] and there's been times where you know i've had a convention promoter you know calmout gave his

[00:52:31] his guy coming i'm like well i don't know if i think so right we talked about it a couple

[00:52:35] months ago he's like yeah but like i didn't buy his plane ticket did you get his plane ticket

[00:52:39] i didn't buy his plane ticket i got nothing i don't work for him i just i just did it to you too um

[00:52:43] you know that is man it's like i'm not as manager i'm a friend that can really offer or whatever

[00:52:47] and uh okay well let me ask so you know next time i was talking to him like so so

[00:52:51] guy are you going to uh you're gonna go to the new york show oh yeah okay uh she's gonna uh

[00:52:58] a plane ticket no no i'm driving uh oh okay you're really going to go to get a hotel room

[00:53:04] oh yeah i already booked it

[00:53:07] wait you're just driving to attach to convention and paying for your own way in

[00:53:13] you know he's like what well yeah i'm like i don't know if you're a convention promoter i'm like man

[00:53:19] they should be paying you they should be cutting you a check for fire grand and fucking paying

[00:53:22] your way and doing all that you know your guy like he's just like a dude who's like i'm gonna go

[00:53:27] and i'm gonna make my own money and i'm gonna do my own thing and you know we are freaking out that

[00:53:31] like oh my god we might not even show up because you know and again part of it's like

[00:53:36] i know that that convention promoter had three other tattooers who wanted their hair fair wanted

[00:53:40] the hotel they were on them about getting the best food spot and it's really just a matter of

[00:53:45] like for me it's like you could be one of the very best tattooers in the world

[00:53:49] and still keep your integrity yes and uh and again you know it's sometimes it's hard for other

[00:53:56] people to see because you might not respond to their emails or you know it doesn't have time for

[00:54:00] everybody but like they don't necessarily see that you know for years he had an hour every Monday

[00:54:05] where anybody that paid $20 or $30 whatever it was could talk to him and get a good deal for

[00:54:10] so it's like when he's accessible he's exceptionally generous yes and um

[00:54:16] I just had to experience that from him um it's really i mean it really is uh and

[00:54:21] and when things get crazy you know uh he's not again he's just like you know what

[00:54:27] you know it's not that complicated you know tattoo-long people they come back with their friends in

[00:54:31] their family you know he keeps his rate reasonable so it's not like he's just tattooing you know

[00:54:37] millionaires yeah he's tattooing mostly tattooers and um anyways so so I guess what i wanted to say is

[00:54:43] we're preventing the tattoo guy H is in incredible influence uh just because he's you know old and

[00:54:48] gray does not mean he's not completely 100% relevant to the youth um although maybe there might

[00:54:54] need to be some some bridges in the middle there is something to to to to to to to to to to to

[00:54:57] to bridge generations but anyways so it's a reinventing the tattoo fire side tattoo

[00:55:01] uh Jake meeks is another uh partner of mine or a person ought to work with her work for sometimes and

[00:55:06] um again just another really good authentic uh tattooed in her

[00:55:11] cares he's passionate um and again neither of them are chasing the numbers right they're

[00:55:16] they're they're they're secure in what they're doing they're doing great business you know um but

[00:55:22] it's not like they're chasing they're not chasing they're they're just building yeah um

[00:55:27] you know needle jigs a company I also work with you know you love Mark yeah Mark's great uh you

[00:55:32] know started with uh you know coming up with with new needle configurations and you know

[00:55:38] whatever 23 years ago uh still just again just a real person who slogs it out and um you know

[00:55:45] I can't thank him enough right like those guys and uh and then everybody else in tattoo now of course

[00:55:49] so tattoo now.com it's an old website now maybe changing it any any minute I'm too busy working on

[00:55:54] other people sites but um that's you know uh you know I guess I can't thank him enough and you

[00:55:58] enough and anybody that comes to paradise you know obviously it's been a roller coaster and there's

[00:56:02] been times where you know I lost nearly all of it right yeah um and and I guess what I you know

[00:56:08] at that point like the detractor is a mind didn't get as I'd like you know it wasn't about me

[00:56:12] you know it's not about them it's not about me it's about a community of tattooers who want to

[00:56:17] better themselves right and uh obviously there's other places to go and to be able to do that um

[00:56:22] but I'm just very thankful for the people that choose to to to you know pool their energies

[00:56:27] and the resources you know into my neck with the woods into tattoo now our paradise because um

[00:56:32] you know really you got the end of the day when things are crazy all I really want to do is amplify

[00:56:36] positive tattooers right yeah in the past I just amplified a lot of different tattooers um

[00:56:43] well you amplified good artwork and I think that there's a distinction between you know the source

[00:56:48] of good artwork sometimes you know um just wrap it up like oh you know I would attract a lot of people

[00:56:54] over the effect for for decades you know it's about the mission and the values are really the

[00:56:59] what it's about right it's it's not about being super busy or making a lot of money or charging

[00:57:05] a lot um it is about learning and progressing and that's not comfortable so here I'll get the

[00:57:11] I'll get the wrap this up right so like as we know when you're progressing and you're pushing forward

[00:57:15] and you're entering a new ground it's inherently uncomfortable and you know just like working out

[00:57:20] you're gonna get sore or you know and um what's really strange is that if you're on like a life

[00:57:26] long quest to be the best you can then you're almost not almost you are literally signing yourself

[00:57:34] up for a life of discomfort which again this is an antifical I'm like wait we only have a limited

[00:57:40] amount of time this earth we should be enjoying it pushing it to its max but to do that means

[00:57:44] that I'm gonna be uncomfortable because I'm always growing and I'm always not in the right spot

[00:57:48] and something's always not right and I'm always you know yeah over-cappet stating and learning and uh

[00:57:54] you know so it's just really and I can't be thankful enough that we found a group of tattooers who

[00:58:00] are comfortable in this area of discomfort uh to continuously grow and uh and again it's it's

[00:58:07] ugly it's messy it gets crazy but at the end of the day it doesn't have to be that difficult

[00:58:12] you know we really I know for me I just want to help amplify positive tattooers leave the best

[00:58:17] mark that they can on their clients so that their clients become better people and uh

[00:58:22] anything else we can get rid of it's a distraction so yes that's a great way to wrap it

[00:58:27] I love it Gabe thank you so much oh hey thank you very much for the invitation and uh

[00:58:32] so I'm gonna see you let's go awesome I really do appreciate you coming out from the beginning

[00:58:37] and keep coming back and uh I'm a little sad I'm not sad I'm glad that we able to get through that

[00:58:42] when we didn't talk politics are religion for real no but we can do a podcast like that that would be fun

[00:58:48] I don't want to be that in public but uh we should do it totally awesome well I love you man

[00:58:54] and thank you so much say hi to the fam we'll do and they say how to they they think that or

[00:58:59] but awesome love bye all right diary listeners you heard it straight from the man now Gabe didn't go

[00:59:11] much into all that he has experienced but when I tell you that that man has known

[00:59:18] some of the highest highs and some of the lowest lows I would not be lying uh he would happily

[00:59:25] go over that with you I'm sure he met him at one of our events uh reinventing the tat two

[00:59:31] paradise tat two gatherings or like he said on fireside perhaps you know i who knows but

[00:59:38] but Gabe is such an awesome person he's so passionate about this industry he is a problem solver um

[00:59:47] his whole family is beautiful honestly uh I remember meeting his his kid

[00:59:55] at a very young age his wife they're all stellar human beings so definitely

[01:00:03] no Gabe follow Gabe uh keep up with the announcements that he puts out because uh he's only

[01:00:11] he's only really here to help us and uh he hasn't been run off quite yet thank you diary listeners

[01:00:20] bless you Gabe you're an awesome fellow i'm very very happy to count you as a friend have a powerful

[01:00:27] week everyone and just one more time go seek a brainy

[01:00:42] thanks for listening you can find the apprenticeship diaries on twitter

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