Ep. 207 "Aimless" (Diary Entry 1:2 with Josh Hoffman)

[00:00:00] Happy Tuesday diary listeners. Hi, I'm like a ball of mess right now everybody so please pray for me

[00:00:15] I'm asking for prayers up top we're in for a great two-part diary entry here with Josh Hoffman

[00:00:22] a good friend we're calling this first part of his diary entry aimless and you're about to

[00:00:30] understand why enjoy

[00:00:38] Welcome to the Apprenticeship Diaries where raw needs were fine let's be real we're still working

[00:00:43] on the phone when it took when it takes and the stories that are made join us as we learn from

[00:00:49] professionals about how their stories would be

[00:01:04] well I have to introduce you welcome apprenticeship diary listeners today i'm meeting with Josh

[00:01:10] Hoffman a rapture tattoo and poreum he's a good friend i actually met him through rapture through

[00:01:16] my friend Jake and Bri who both worked there they're now a married couple it's like a whole thing

[00:01:23] but Josh is one of the people that i met through you know just being friends with them for such a long time

[00:01:29] thank you Josh for coming on today yeah of course it's lovely to be here yeah i mean i'm

[00:01:35] talking about it forever so it's it i love it i know and i'm like i just so need this on

[00:01:41] i know i know because it's ridiculous it's ridiculous and i can't wait to get in the weeds oh

[00:01:48] oh yeah no i love our conversations so thinking of it as a podcast i'm like oh this is gonna be

[00:01:53] amazing yeah man i mean i don't want to i don't want to you know i don't get people too ant but

[00:02:00] for whatever it is going to be like wow all right i told Rico a little bit about it this morning

[00:02:06] what yeah it'll be great um how long have you been in time sharing now Josh

[00:02:17] i actually had to do the math because i was like maybe you know see how it all adds up but

[00:02:24] i have been full time now for just over three years all right on yeah i know why so maybe

[00:02:32] yeah um well with your with your apprenticeship included how would you could vacate that

[00:02:41] so about four and a half years okay yeah i don't know why i just saw you as older your work's really good

[00:02:50] really really good yeah and i i feel like the people have raptured

[00:02:56] probably because of exposure kind of why i like being around you guys too you guys you guys grow really

[00:03:01] well there i feel even the ones that didn't survive as far as like

[00:03:07] past their apprenticeship but we're pretty solid tattoo artist i feel so

[00:03:12] yeah okay well uh before before we go into any of that um why did you i guess what

[00:03:22] started the journey into getting into tattoos were you always in art how did that look uh yeah i've

[00:03:28] always been into art and i kind of love saying this because i think it's so non-traditional in the way

[00:03:35] of people getting into tattooing like i feel like so many people um start collecting tattoos

[00:03:42] and they tend to be like oh this is like all i've ever wanted to do you know

[00:03:48] and um i did art my whole life every art class in my school i was in there um you know even like

[00:03:54] apr history which god forbid that was a mistake but you know that was that was a lot but you know

[00:04:00] i was like yeah i just want to soak up all this and um i didn't want a career in art though

[00:04:07] which you know i feel like that's very um i feel like it's not as often like you you talk to

[00:04:15] an artist and like they're like oh yeah like i've always wanted to be a tattoo artist like i

[00:04:18] fucking love that shit and i i want to know part in that i think i remember talking to my high

[00:04:27] school art teacher um you know shout out miss giblin she's lovely um i we would like i was very

[00:04:34] close with her i'd go there and study hall i'd cut class and just be in that room and i remember

[00:04:41] like getting into like yelling matches with her over just let like she wanted me to do art and i

[00:04:49] was like i i use it as my self expression like i never wanted someone to look at something i put

[00:04:56] the time in that i saw is beautiful to say that it was worth an amount of money that i didn't agree

[00:05:03] with um you know i i obviously i'm never gonna work for fucking coke a colar or something but i

[00:05:10] didn't want some like representative to be like hey you know we don't want to go in that direction

[00:05:15] that sucks and we're like oh well i love this why it like who are you to say that that's what the

[00:05:20] values add so i- what did you want to be i don't fucking know not okay i just know

[00:05:26] just not not art just not art okay yeah i put that as like a boundary of mine for a long time and

[00:05:34] i was like i refuse to think of that as an option because of you know i didn't want someone telling

[00:05:41] me that like that's not the direction that my art should go like i want to do the art that i

[00:05:46] want to do so what's her objections uh she he was just that like uh she's like a motherly like

[00:05:55] figure in art of just like hey no like you need to do this you're good at this you have to do

[00:06:00] this so it was like the supposing force to me being a want be little negative piece of shit in high

[00:06:06] school and she's just like you know motherly hug of a like hey you have to do art like you don't know

[00:06:12] what you're talking about just do it um you know so i'm jumping ahead a little bit so uh but it was

[00:06:19] it was a fun surprise after you know like years of her being like no you have to do art

[00:06:24] and like screaming at each other about it in the middle of class and uh you know i go back

[00:06:29] you know a couple years later i'm like all right um you know full-time artist i get it

[00:06:34] you were right this is a really good option my my life is infinitely better now

[00:06:41] so i owe a lot to her yelling at me until i finally did it right on yeah did you pursue it and

[00:06:48] did you take any uh did you go to college i did not yes all right i guess i uh didn't actually get

[00:06:54] to where the question was going but um so i started getting tattooed and you know i was just

[00:07:02] working at a fucking hardware store and drawing in my free time doing nothing else and i was

[00:07:08] getting tattooed and i don't want to say like not like a nervous breakdown or anything but

[00:07:14] i was in the chair and i was just like i'm aimless right now like i don't really know what the

[00:07:18] fuck i'm doing like i love life i'm not like depressed or anything but i was just like i feel like

[00:07:24] stagnant which is never a good thing um so the guy that was tattooing me um was like hey dumbass uh

[00:07:36] you can clearly draw because i would just send him like pictures of whatever i wanted on i like

[00:07:41] i wouldn't describe an idea i would just send him like a rough procreate file of something i drew

[00:07:46] and it's like hey like something kind of like this you know um put your own flare on it but like

[00:07:51] something fun and he was like you you couldn't obviously draw like you you know you've done this

[00:08:00] for a while like i would send it to him and i mean there were like very minimal changes like

[00:08:06] it was just like this is yeah like the bones are there at least you know i mean like i couldn't

[00:08:10] design a tattoo yet but the bones were there enough that he understood my vision for things so

[00:08:18] he uh he was like all you do is you know work like eat, draw, repeat like

[00:08:27] have you thought of tattooing and my family had been telling me this for years of like

[00:08:32] well you're getting you're doing nothing but get tattooed and draw like have you thought of

[00:08:36] tattooing but my family saying it was like oh that's my fucking family they'll say i'm good even

[00:08:40] up on dog shit yeah yeah i could be hot dog water at it and then we're like yeah sure do it so um

[00:08:48] when i you know it took another it took a tattooed artist to say hey have you thought of being a

[00:08:55] tattoo artist to really consider that as an option it was like a gate unlocked in my fucking head

[00:09:02] my mind opened and i was like wait oh that is an option like i'm not just you know like i needed

[00:09:08] that to break down the boundary i had already set up for myself about taking art seriously as an

[00:09:14] option did this conversation happen while you were getting tattooed oh yeah yeah i was in the middle

[00:09:20] of getting tattooed well and i you know you bring up an interesting point i often remind people that

[00:09:26] it's like a it's a mild torturous kind of process and you're already vulnerable and so

[00:09:34] there's a lot more that you can kind of get out of people when they're in that position of like

[00:09:40] incurring pain and sitting for something and having somebody that obviously they respect on a

[00:09:46] certain level um to do the task itself you know while you're getting pain like put in you i do think

[00:09:54] there's something about your mind kind of being a little bit more open to receiving things because

[00:09:58] you're you're kind of weaker at that point and so there's a lot more ability or stuff to come in

[00:10:04] yeah yeah um we joke about this all the time like you know our clients are like oh i need another

[00:10:09] therapy session when they're ready to schedule for a tattoo like um it's not different for us

[00:10:14] like just because we're an artist doesn't mean that that's like a different thing for us like it still

[00:10:19] feels like that like some of your most vulnerable conversations with friends will be you know three

[00:10:25] hours into a fire five hour tattoo and you're just sitting there and you're like you talk about what

[00:10:30] you're really what's on your plate you know like that's a beautiful thing but i think we all together

[00:10:36] like forget that it's the same fucking way for us you know we're no different yeah um

[00:10:41] but yeah yeah it was uh it's a fun i don't know i feel like it's very uh off the beaten path

[00:10:48] the way i just kind of like fumbled into like wanting to tattoo like i that opens that idea in my head

[00:10:54] and i was like wow you know like i really would love to do that after years and years of saying

[00:11:01] fuck no i could never like yeah so after this was proposed to you did it like

[00:11:09] did you just it like immediately jump on it or how did it look after that because you know he

[00:11:15] put it down on the table i know with me when i when i offered that to my former apprentice

[00:11:20] she like jumped on that ship right away like like he was like the next day she was like uh i want to do

[00:11:27] it so i and this yeah i before that i think and i had joked before about being a wampi little piece of

[00:11:37] shit but i i was just negative like i not in like a like mean or distasteful way like i was just a very

[00:11:43] like negative uh person like i just didn't think of that as something i could do so like uh

[00:11:54] i don't know like i didn't have some supreme work ethic that like oh whoa i'm like you know

[00:12:00] set my eyes on a prize like i was fucking terrible at school because i didn't care

[00:12:04] i was terrible at like organizing my schedule because i didn't care like

[00:12:08] but that like clicked in a way that i was like i care about this like i want to do this now

[00:12:15] so i don't know we joked all the time about like you know like owing our lives to being able to tattoo

[00:12:20] like i owe every amount of organization that i have like my light like i was shitty before wanting

[00:12:28] to tattoo and you know like yeah i don't know yeah no i it really it matters a lot to me like

[00:12:36] it's did everything i owe to tattooing well and just to kind of spin off what you said you know

[00:12:42] we are no different i'm even therapist get therapy you know what's as all of a you know i'm part

[00:12:47] of this podcast is kind of just showing people um how the journey is all individually different in

[00:12:56] certain aspects of the story but the that humanity in it there's the similar things just to like let

[00:13:04] people know that we're all human we're all connected we're all you know trying to get after these

[00:13:10] these very definitable things in our lives and and to illustrate you know how that looks for certain

[00:13:17] people um i think that's very important and and i i think it's good for clients to understand that

[00:13:25] um you know as much as we charge forward as much as you know this is our profession this heals us

[00:13:31] the same as it heals them um because it it is the thing i mean i know i love tattooing because i'm

[00:13:38] definitely an adult ADD case and i i need it i need it for the the kind of regimen that it forces

[00:13:47] me to have because otherwise it would be chaos like if i didn't have to account to my schedule to

[00:13:52] my clients to to any of that it would they would it would just be off the wall yeah and there's

[00:13:59] a aspect too that like um you know and i know you feel the same way like you we love our clients so

[00:14:06] much and like if i didn't have something like that like a structure of like i have to keep my schedule

[00:14:12] in order um i like i i fear letting my clients down if i were to not keep my schedule together as well

[00:14:21] as i do like i really do like i care about these people these silly little motherfuckers i love them

[00:14:27] like i i don't want to let them down so i'm like all right cool i'm gonna keep my schedule like you

[00:14:33] know i'm gonna give them their time like i want them to feel like they matter in my chair because i

[00:14:39] i mean we've all had the experience of getting tattooed and not feeling like

[00:14:45] they care about you you know like i think most fucking tatuers have had that so

[00:14:50] as a tattooer i'm like yeah i really want them to fucking care about this i wanted a fun experience

[00:14:55] and you know to bring it back to rapture like i i really think that that's something that we all

[00:15:02] hold in the high priority absolutely that's why i dig being around you guys and to bring

[00:15:07] it back to Mrs. Ghibli i mean she saw that right away that that was like the only thing that you

[00:15:12] really cared about and you know when when you start out thinking about a job or you know all these

[00:15:19] things i think is a young kid you look at the grind and you're like i don't want it you know you have

[00:15:24] this inappropriate relationship with money and all these different power structures and you think

[00:15:30] i don't i don't want to bless them i must the thing that i hold so dear but what you realize later on

[00:15:36] is that no in order for it to have significance for it to be worth the money for everybody to get

[00:15:43] along and it to be this beautiful piece where you fit into society really well the caring is there

[00:15:49] and then and then everybody's caring and everybody's doing a really cool thing so that's probably

[00:15:54] what she saw right away yeah i love it yeah every every once in a while i'd stop and then we catch up

[00:16:01] until it's really lovely yeah i'm happy that you have that with her that's really cool

[00:16:07] i still am friends with some of my teachers i've actually like gotten into with them about other

[00:16:13] issues like yeah just because i'm a lunatic and i'm looking at what things drafts it's nice now that

[00:16:20] we're all like people on the same you know like level and can have these kind of discussions and uh

[00:16:27] yeah it's it's pretty nice but yeah that i i definitely have had i mean obviously i wouldn't be so

[00:16:34] interested in like the mentoring process if i didn't have some impeccable mentors yeah um that's

[00:16:40] really cool well again like uh after uh your tattoo artist did you want to shout him out or uh

[00:16:48] yeah dust yeah dust shout out dusty yeah all right after he proposed this what happened

[00:16:54] so he was already in the process of moving to a new shop like before uh like i was getting tattooed

[00:17:02] the one before so he moved over there and i originally of course like getting along with him so well

[00:17:08] i was hoping to try and apprentice under him um so i of course you know i was in there every three weeks

[00:17:14] for fucking six months getting tattooed learning everyone's names like just hanging out like i think

[00:17:21] first and foremost like obviously the tattoos um or what we like take away from the experience but

[00:17:28] i enjoyed the experience like that's what first drew me in like i liked being in a shop

[00:17:33] listening to fucking music shooting the shit with everyone like that's what drew me in at first

[00:17:39] um it's just a fun ambience i don't know i love being in the shop um yeah so be yeah um so yeah

[00:17:46] I was always in the shop like just i don't know i was working at the uh like hardware store like

[00:17:51] i mentioned before and i spent every fucking penny on tattoos my uh my uh my mom stopped me one time

[00:17:59] it's like you're like saving money right because i kept coming in with the new one every three weeks

[00:18:03] every two weeks and i was like oh yeah totally uh no i every penny was on literally like food

[00:18:10] gas to get me to the tattoo shop and tattoos like it's all i cared about and um

[00:18:16] um they had already had an apprentice though so um it was it was one of the situations where it was

[00:18:23] like you know uh their apprentice had a fucking kid like i'm not gonna be the asshole that tries

[00:18:30] to get an apprenticeship at the place that their apprentice has a kid i'm not taking food at his

[00:18:34] mouth i'm not trying to like make a situation like that more complicated you know what i mean so

[00:18:40] yeah totally um i ended up like the i ended up starting the process of course of finding

[00:18:48] an apprenticeship and feet like finding a shop that i feel comfortable in that i can like

[00:18:53] um you know start and like plant my seed in this industry of like starting out and

[00:18:59] um i quit my job i got a night shift job so that whenever i could finally apprentice uh

[00:19:09] you know money would not be an option because that was of course like all these threads on the

[00:19:14] you know the internet you see people like oh like unpaid apprenticeship i was like fuck that like

[00:19:19] i have shit i have to pay for anyway so i'll just apprentice during the day and you know grind

[00:19:24] at night and make money so i started that process uh i worked night shift for about a year and a half

[00:19:30] before finding my apprenticeship uh yeah i you know took a fucking uh you know tactile

[00:19:42] grouping of all you know like oh sorry i'm i'm i can't think of the word for it but uh

[00:19:48] i had one of those project portfolios that we had like high school that were like

[00:19:53] six foot by five like four foot or some shit like the massive ones

[00:19:57] uh i can't think of what that's called i don't know why

[00:20:02] i had like this really nice leather one that i stuffed it full of fucking charcoal drawings and

[00:20:07] took it to like all these shops and um yeah i of course you know you're interested in this thing so

[00:20:14] you look up like oh what's the best way to go about and tattos are saying like take a you know

[00:20:19] physical portfolio so i took all these fucking charcoal drawings and like littered them in

[00:20:23] these people's shops you know i mean just like oh yeah look at my shit like please

[00:20:27] did uh does see in them ever give you any tips about like you know what to draw or give you a

[00:20:34] portfolio review or anything like that yeah for sure yeah it was i mean not all of my physical art

[00:20:40] was a lot more like like charcoal based lots and lots of like uh i guess we'd call it much more

[00:20:48] traditional like no um yeah it wasn't so traditional as it was like more rooted in i guess like

[00:20:58] illustrative neo-trad kind of stuff more illustrative though i was gonna say it seems a lot

[00:21:03] that like i kind of see the roots of that in your actual tattooing so i think it's it's grown to be

[00:21:09] more than neo-traditional but very illustrative starts very loose uh right on yeah painterly yes

[00:21:17] yes very very painterly um that's awesome yeah so uh how were you received um i was received well honestly

[00:21:29] like people like i don't think i was ever really like turned down from a shop but i like through

[00:21:36] conversation like i guess kind of figuring out like what everyone was about and where i felt

[00:21:43] comfortable in wanting to start you know i mean like um there were many like really awesome shops

[00:21:50] and really cool people that you know i got to meet and talk to about this but i wanted to find one

[00:21:56] that i really felt comfortable like uh in the shop like like a feeling like i just i was going off

[00:22:03] of feeling so that's great yeah it's good to put out there because now a lot of people just jump on

[00:22:08] the first thing that presents itself yeah yeah and i yeah i did not want to because i you know

[00:22:16] reading all these things of like uh what to look out for with wanting an apprenticeship like

[00:22:21] i was told right off the bat like i'm gonna be spending some like hold card cash on like an apprenticeship so

[00:22:29] i always i think it's silly but i went into the shop that i you know would eventually get my apprenticeship

[00:22:36] at with like eight grand and cash in my pocket like just a fat stack of like hey i like

[00:22:44] i don't care yeah i don't care if i'm like you know scrubbing the floors with a toothbrush like

[00:22:50] i'll give you fucking eight grand and cash today like i'm ready for this shit like i i was fully

[00:22:55] expecting like an old school apprenticeship um you know i it's i'm very new in tattooing and

[00:23:02] like that's a big thing like apprenticeships are not the same as they used to be but i was ready

[00:23:06] to fucking you know i was about to be a biker gang you know i was like i'm just i'm with it whatever

[00:23:10] we got to do just the uh the information that you could read about what to expect um is different

[00:23:16] because like in my time you just didn't know what to expect you didn't know you know if you'd be paying

[00:23:24] or not like it was all of a lot of in the weeds kind of stuff so at least you're able to read some

[00:23:30] stuff to be like hey yeah that's that's the beauty of what you're doing with you know the apprenticeship

[00:23:38] diaries and like really putting it out there how vast our experiences are like you know i'm sure

[00:23:44] there's people listening that have an experience like mine i'm sure there's people that have a

[00:23:48] completely fucking different experience like that's the beauty of it like we are human every single

[00:23:54] instance is going to be entirely different for people so i really love that i think that's like

[00:23:59] why i really i don't um i was nervous about doing a podcast because i was like i don't know

[00:24:07] like it's it's weird like i can't imagine myself on a podcast but um i'm fascinated with like

[00:24:15] why you do this because it is fun it is like enjoyable to hear everyone's stories so yeah

[00:24:21] yeah i don't know oh yeah and it's just like while we meet with our clients and we learn about them

[00:24:27] you know um for me it's uh sharing that with everybody and you know kind of giving that license i mean

[00:24:34] of course tattoo artists or the majority of who i i interview but very interested in

[00:24:41] i had a i had a client just the other day he was like man you you know a lot of things

[00:24:47] no granted he's 20 he was 27 so i was like bro i got a lot of time on you um so there's that

[00:24:55] but also i was like i meet with every kind of different person and it's just so cool to be able to

[00:25:02] spend hours with somebody and have really in depth conversations about what they do and you learn

[00:25:08] so much about different you know at walks of life that you never really had any scope for and

[00:25:15] and just to present that to people so they can they can kind of picture it a little bit more

[00:25:20] just think it grows so much our perspective and you know for art and artist perspective is everything

[00:25:26] you know you you want to have a good perspective of things you want to have as much of it as you

[00:25:31] can possibly have so that you can create the best image of something or paint the best picture or

[00:25:36] whatever it's it's so vital um but yeah i i i i'm glad that uh i'm glad that you had that you know

[00:25:45] like that's uh that's a wonderful resource and um you know i think that uh it definitely

[00:25:52] prepares you for a lot though i will say going in with a stack of cash that's bold cotton

[00:25:58] oh yeah oh yeah a lot of things could happen oh yeah and uh yeah i knew that too like it um i don't

[00:26:06] want to say there was like nigh evady there but it was like you know i spent you know a year and a

[00:26:13] half not that that's like like i'm sure other people will spend even longer but like

[00:26:17] i spent a year and a half my life like working night shift i i don't i didn't like night shift that should

[00:26:23] fucking oh no no it does i was working night shift like trying to figure out where i belong in tattooing

[00:26:30] um like if i would not let something as trivial as money um be the barrier that stop me from tattooing

[00:26:40] so i was like oh like cool you're you know whether it's two grand five grand eight grand like

[00:26:46] whatever it was like i'm if i feel comfortable in the shop i want to start like i want to do this

[00:26:52] right and you want to you know put the money where where your ambition was

[00:26:57] yeah so like yeah not that i was like looking to buy it but once i realized this was a thing

[00:27:04] that could happen i was not gonna let that stop you know i mean yeah um well and it's the same

[00:27:11] with getting a tattoo like you know we expect people to put down a deposit to show that they're

[00:27:17] they're dedicated and that they understand that our time is valuable that what we're doing is

[00:27:22] valuable i mean it's the same thing it's like are you serious money has a great way of showing how

[00:27:28] serious you are yeah yeah um and then uh you know the owner of the shop who would eventually

[00:27:35] become my mentor um he said that like you know it's not necessary um he said like a apprenticeship

[00:27:43] should not be paid for he said it is you know you hang out you spend your fucking you put your

[00:27:48] time in at the shop and so you prove that you're uh worth having there he was he said you know

[00:27:56] if at any point like you're like oh you know it's not worth really having you helping us here

[00:28:03] like if it was ever passed that like like in the negative um then you know you get the fuck out

[00:28:09] yeah i was like yeah no cool i'm fine with that like it yeah i would ever i got to do so uh you

[00:28:16] know and he looked through my portfolio and all that like the physical portfolio and he's like

[00:28:20] honestly i checked out like because i i had an instagram setup for art at this point um so he was

[00:28:26] like yeah i checked out your instagram already so we went through my physical portfolio as well and

[00:28:30] he was like yeah like star twos day otherwise like you know if it doesn't work out get the fuck out

[00:28:37] yeah right so i go down like you called first left your name uh yeah yeah we were i tried to go

[00:28:46] in person and um i think he was like out of the shop the first day so i ended up um

[00:28:53] like just messaging him back and forth and eventually like you know we all know how

[00:28:58] tattoo schedules are so um we ended up making it work like i drove there like a couple different

[00:29:03] times to finally like nail down a time that he had he could walk away and you know spend some time

[00:29:09] talking to me so wonderful yeah and yeah that's that's an essential thing especially nowadays with

[00:29:14] people with uh any kind of thing i mean yes you had a physical portfolio so that's great um

[00:29:21] you know people can actually see your marks and there's no filters and there's no fancy photo

[00:29:26] magic that can i mean not in you know instagram has come a long way and so have our our abilities

[00:29:32] to take photos but um just having a digital place for people to check out is huge and it's amazing

[00:29:41] to me how many people kind of miss that in the search for any kind of art based thing it's like

[00:29:49] well where can i see you and they're like oh i don't have anything it's like yeah just trust me i'm

[00:29:54] an artist yeah let's start there yeah go make one yeah yeah no i think it's a very very important

[00:30:06] thing oh yeah i think it's something now more than ever in the way you know it art and tattooing

[00:30:13] is of course evolving and changing uh with the influence of technology like by no means is it um

[00:30:21] i think it's by no means is a crush but it should definitely be something that we

[00:30:28] account for and like have you know like i don't you shouldn't rely on it but you should have a

[00:30:33] you know decently updated portfolio at all times yeah well and you know presenting yourself as a creative

[00:30:43] i mean the possibilities are endless i mean there's there's people like me who just go

[00:30:52] give the algorithm something and like you just throw it out but then there's other people who really

[00:30:58] you know craft it and they make it look really nice and i think i do think that the reward for them

[00:31:04] is so much more than me because they've put more into it and they really try to choreograph that

[00:31:09] and all of that matters and it has a very prominent ability to diversify your abilities in

[00:31:16] in a lot of different realms because if you can if you can show that you not only have a portfolio

[00:31:23] but you know how to um present yourself as an entity well online then that that has

[00:31:30] uh yieldings for other companies who might look to you to do their social media marketing or things

[00:31:36] like that like it does have a multi-purpose split to it if you look at it that way i'm of course

[00:31:44] i really don't because i hate it but yeah you know i i i see the value and i do try to learn more

[00:31:53] i just got to invite for threads and i'm like reading about it and i'm like what the fuck is this

[00:31:58] like oh no i go by it seems like another it's just like another version of the same thing

[00:32:06] what are we doing oh what what stop stop with the apps like no more apps

[00:32:13] yeah great another thing that distracts me from you know drawing at night or a perfect

[00:32:19] yeah i don't have one either yeah i get it well i mean i i really want to contact the person

[00:32:25] that sent me the invite and be like what is this why do you want it because i do i do respect him um

[00:32:32] and you know if he can give me some kind of reasons but you know the hooks that came for me for like

[00:32:39] say facebook um you know they're no longer relevant anymore i'm not even i'm not even really a friend

[00:32:47] of the person who hooked me to it in the beginning and so it's it's kind of fizzled out and moved

[00:32:53] to different platforms and you know i i i will i will adopt something if you can show me it's

[00:33:01] relevancy um but like you said if it's gonna keep me away from doing what i do and doing it well

[00:33:08] and if i'm not able to there's gonna take so much more time for me to actually learn it and

[00:33:15] there's no prominent reward than no i'm good yeah i'm good yeah i'll just be a better artist

[00:33:23] and then we'll be fine yeah so once you started what was required of you since you had to do it via

[00:33:31] earning your time um i mean general shop maintenance like yeah i don't have to describe it but i mean

[00:33:42] you know i got in before everyone honestly like yeah i i think i kind of earned their trust first and

[00:33:48] foremost to like get a key very early on um but i was you know like i i think he realized i was

[00:33:56] serious about like dude like i don't give a fuck if i'm in here at like six a.m. like i'll clean

[00:34:00] this shit like have it ready for you guys like i think that a grand in your pocket made a lot

[00:34:05] yeah yeah yeah i think that sold it this guy is ready to have us jump him and take a grand

[00:34:12] we're gonna give him a key it's fine he's got a grand three people i look up like wait like

[00:34:17] do i get the apprenticeship or like am i doing good here he doesn't need our money he's already

[00:34:26] we're gonna give him a key so we can just get into this uh know that helped i'm pretty sure that

[00:34:31] that again like you said it it earning their trust but also showing that that you really were

[00:34:37] adamant that yeah that probably afforded you that key very early on um yeah so i got the key i uh

[00:34:48] i go in probably like an hour and a half before anyone else got there and start cleaning the shop

[00:34:54] you know scrubbing toilets all the good stuff um you know no toothbrushes or anything but um yeah

[00:35:01] just you know general upkeep the shop making sure everything's clean and ready for the day for everybody

[00:35:07] depending on like which artist was in that day like some of them prefer to have their own setup

[00:35:11] of course so that you know they don't want their apprentice fucking it up and doing something that's

[00:35:15] not worth the time or the material of course right um and especially with like when i started not

[00:35:24] when i started but when i was like in my apprenticeship um you know it was right around covid actually

[00:35:31] so oh yeah oh yeah um i know that's how new it is it's crazy yeah so weird like i really you have um

[00:35:40] i don't know you present yourself as a much older tattoo artist but go ahead i'm sorry thank you

[00:35:45] that's right um yeah i kind of i kind of forgot to like say that i guess it was like in

[00:35:50] covid so you know things were so much harder to get like gloves so like you know i it was

[00:36:00] really important that like other people other artists in the shop were like oh no i set up my thing how

[00:36:06] I do it like don't practice setting up if it's gonna waste fucking supplies or something like you know

[00:36:12] you just watch me setup and you will see how i prefer it watch other people you'll see how they

[00:36:17] prefer it so like my mentor i knew in and out like spots for spot where he put everything so i like

[00:36:24] set him up every morning i was like and it was tick for tack if something was out of place he would

[00:36:29] immediately be like yo motherfucker i do this cap this cap then this in cap i do this this and this

[00:36:34] like if you overuse supplies like i know immediately so um i don't know it was it was important i think

[00:36:43] to see um his reaction to that to realize like what is absolutely necessary and what is not they

[00:36:51] were so strict like i'm very grateful for where i prenistat was very um clean it was like they

[00:36:59] take it so seriously they triple wrap everything i was very fortunate to have that as my upbringing

[00:37:05] in tattooing you know i mean um but especially like seeing what is the perfect amount of supplies

[00:37:14] to use for your setup to make sure it is bullet proof but also not overusing and wasting things

[00:37:20] right right yeah yeah no i totally i um i didn't have that as much like i waste a lot of supplies

[00:37:31] but um i'm getting better at it um i was always because i was pre-coven um so i'm pre a lot of

[00:37:41] different things but the biggest thing in my day was uh make sure it's you know it's it's public

[00:37:49] ready so if you have to use extra to ensure that it's done correctly uh do it i would rather you do

[00:37:57] it than incur whatever fallout is you know and and i think you know part of it was uh like you said

[00:38:06] there wasn't as much shortages of those kind of things um costs were lower you know like

[00:38:13] there was just a whole different landscape but also um i think i didn't they didn't want to

[00:38:19] follow me around constantly they just wanted it done you know like yeah so they had to like

[00:38:24] be that attentive of me uh that would have been more than a a pair of gloves was worth

[00:38:31] so much different but that's that's a cool um it's a cool thing to know about your experience

[00:38:38] and covid definitely so did you um did you handle all client relations or any kind of booking

[00:38:43] front-end work harden this podcast interruption listeners but i wanted to remind you all about the

[00:38:52] offer in the show notes of this podcast you'll find a link tad ten t-a-d ten you click on that and

[00:39:00] you can get 10% off a subscription to the reinventing the tattoo cannon for a year it's well worth

[00:39:08] the money even without the 10% off honestly listeners uh anything through guy at justin is well worth

[00:39:15] the effort guy even you know is personally involved continually with this effort he really loves

[00:39:21] to give back to the education scene when it comes to tattooing just just such an icon in this industry so

[00:39:29] please go and check that out see for yourself what is offered it's it's well worth it like i said

[00:39:35] without the 10% off but if you go to the show notes click on tad ten you can save yourself 10%

[00:39:42] off and i guarantee you it will level your game up okay now back to our podcast um yeah i definitely

[00:39:49] did all of the like front-end work um but as far as like booking for clients um it was very much like

[00:39:57] you control your own schedule if anyone wanted me to i absolutely would but um most of the guys

[00:40:04] at the shop that i was at would all handle their own shit gotcha yeah very cool which i like now

[00:40:09] that i'm like i was always weird about that but not weird about uh i don't know how to like in the

[00:40:15] moment i was like huh that's odd like why not take that help that like it's one thing you don't have

[00:40:20] to do and then as an artist i'm like god i would never let anyone take my fucking schedule like i am so

[00:40:27] like again um how i said before like i don't want to let my clients down with scheduling i don't

[00:40:33] want to double book someone i want to be careful of like valuing their time if if i let someone

[00:40:39] schedule something for me and they like fucked up my shit i would be so mad you know what i mean so

[00:40:45] i i always uh didn't i didn't really understand that at the time but like looking back like oh what a

[00:40:51] you know i get it it's certainly uh easier i will say that i'm i'm looking into this now and uh

[00:40:59] riko and i want to integrate a lot more and i would love to eventually like you know if we did

[00:41:06] own a shop together or something like that or whatever but i think the first part would be um

[00:41:13] setting up things that he can do for me and it's it like you said it it becomes something that makes

[00:41:19] sense once you're an artist but now i think i'm to the point where i'm like so uh locked in to that rhythm

[00:41:28] that it's kind of a crutch you know like and i and i feel like and i'm sure you get it is that like

[00:41:34] you return to this whole like well why don't i teach somebody to do this and i i used to be a friend

[00:41:42] in person so i was managing a hairstylist and it was like every half hour or two hours like

[00:41:49] depending on the booking but it was like you you had to know every single person way you know

[00:41:56] they're scheduled for eating and all these different things breaks that they might need

[00:42:00] and um it's possible you know it's very possible um so you know in in talking about this

[00:42:08] is my partner who really wants you know to scale what we can do together and i do think that

[00:42:13] he would be good at it once given that kind of empowerment and and view about it and ability to

[00:42:20] mess around of course it's gonna mess up of course it's gonna mess up but i do think there's a way

[00:42:25] that i could you know do that and that's that's kind of a thing too is that when you look into the

[00:42:30] phase you're not there yet um but when you get to the point where you want to teach somebody then

[00:42:36] you have to open yourself up to okay i mean you're gonna be there because you're about to be a dad

[00:42:44] but there's gonna be you know there's gonna be yeah yeah well and probably in a really good way

[00:42:51] because then i think it's going to be um you know probably a lot a lot easier because you're

[00:42:58] gonna be learning that through through somebody who shares your legacy and and that you're going

[00:43:04] to be able to love in a much more sincere way and have more patience for um you know even though

[00:43:10] I love rico and everything like that my patience for him is like you know yeah i got it

[00:43:16] that's so cool yeah like it is one of those things i do think it's more common than not now though

[00:43:24] in tattoo shops where everybody kind of manages their own schedule um it's only very particular

[00:43:31] tattoo studios that really have like a huge and i honestly don't know if the front-end people

[00:43:39] manage the schedules i think they more so handle the social media marketing all of the different

[00:43:44] you know uh the money exchanges client relations you know i don't think it's very typical for them

[00:43:51] to do booking um because it's hard you know like hard to do that yeah i definitely am not like

[00:43:58] entirely opposed to the idea it more so would have to just happen at the right time in the right way

[00:44:04] i guess i don't know like it has to be the right person that i can trust with that because it is

[00:44:08] such a like there were actually a lot of checking in yeah because we would we would have at the salon

[00:44:13] for instance you know certain clients that you get to know and you'd realize oh this person needs

[00:44:18] like an extra 15 minutes yes yeah even little mannerisms that people have like there's so many

[00:44:24] mannerisms or even the way i talked to some clients that like you know there's clients we have

[00:44:29] that become more friend than client and like you know you bullshit with them so if

[00:44:34] i'm completely comfortable with them i don't say wasting my time but messaging me some dumbass

[00:44:40] shit just because it's funny like i'm fine with that that's my own time i i acknowledge it and it's okay

[00:44:46] but if i'm like paying someone to go sit through my emails and they say three see you know

[00:44:53] say see three in a row that are all just some dumb shit like they're gonna be like who the fuck is

[00:44:57] this guy you know that but i'm fine with that at first at first yeah i met a few like

[00:45:03] get um uh power line you have a girl that has started had been with them since like the very beginning

[00:45:10] crystal and she is i mean executive assistant fantastic she know like i'm sure she knows the

[00:45:19] clients just as well as they do on a certain level just because of how much they all interact and

[00:45:24] they go through her to do it and she is amazing um that's special yeah but you know it does take

[00:45:32] a i think um you know you've got to know how to bring people up and it's a masterclass i'm

[00:45:40] nowhere i can envision it but i and i i experienced it i was that person as a worker

[00:45:47] but i never i never was the business owner and so and and you know i i think it's something

[00:45:53] I have to learn but you know that's uh that's another level to which i think artists in general

[00:45:58] you know we're so in our own heads like to think about oh i have to actually verbalize

[00:46:07] what is going on here in order for me to get all these people on board it's really hard because we're

[00:46:13] so locked in yeah very cool well that's good to know um let's see here what was like as far

[00:46:22] as like the curriculum what did they start you out in in doing first uh this is where like i feel

[00:46:30] like i didn't really get a curriculum okay it was entirely more of just like you will learn through

[00:46:39] watching and when you're ready you will try it and you will just like first and foremost watch

[00:46:46] like just soak it up and like really learn from that which like i obviously it helps it

[00:46:54] helps so so much like even you know when we get these experiences to watch other tattoo artists

[00:46:59] that are you know so dialed into this and um just masters of the class like you really do learn a lot

[00:47:04] from watching but um there was always that like almost like yearning of like i wish i would have

[00:47:12] had a curriculum i wish i would have had like some structure in that way but they give you an

[00:47:19] exercises like i know i know john when i first started with him he was like here's a magazine

[00:47:25] trace all of the fonts uh i was like it was less like yeah i don't know it's so weird uh it's

[00:47:36] also like weird to recount this stuff i don't know i don't think i haven't thought about this

[00:47:39] shift for a while yeah um it was less like tracing fonts and more like uh like studying flash books

[00:47:48] and stuff so i would do like like sheets like every week like multiple um and i would just like spend

[00:47:55] the day drawing whatever like we talked about so like if he was like you know what like freehand

[00:48:01] uh roses and make like six of them on a flashy every single rose has different petals and

[00:48:09] different leaves or different materials like things like that where um you know you got to like

[00:48:15] try some things and let like figure out if it's more fluid for you to draw like leaves that are

[00:48:21] perfectly like shaped or things with like little edges like oh i mean you know we've all seen

[00:48:27] 16 million different in like traditional flowers right like yeah you there's so many different ways

[00:48:32] to do it and i think he really wanted to show me that through that exercise so things like that

[00:48:36] like it was less like structure but more like we would talk about um if he was working on some like

[00:48:42] custom scripts on someone's back or something he would pull out uh like three different flash books

[00:48:49] of custom scripts and he just be like draw shit like pick words study it like uh

[00:48:55] uh yeah it was never like it was a it was a very find your style kind of way yeah it didn't

[00:49:01] yeah i just like he was very adamant about you learning uh any any particular style just like

[00:49:10] draw let's see what let's see what your mind does with this yeah almost like um

[00:49:15] um like let it be a little intuitive but kind of like try all these different things

[00:49:21] like see what you're kind of enjoying and he was like at the end of this like when you are finally

[00:49:27] able to start you know tattooing and like trying a machine for the first time like once you start

[00:49:34] having clients if we let you like you'll have sheets upon sheets upon sheets to fucking work from

[00:49:39] so i honestly like i did enjoy that but i do find myself wishing i had more of a curriculum back

[00:49:46] then like i think i was in the moment like it was fine day to day but i was like week to week i was

[00:49:53] like huh like what am i supposed to be working on if he didn't tell me like if he was like

[00:49:57] working on a like a tattoo in a more intimate area and had his like door closed or something other

[00:50:02] i'm not gonna like blow up his phone 16 times and be like hey what should i do what should i do now

[00:50:06] like yeah yeah well and the thing about the curriculum is that you kind of know where you're at

[00:50:14] yeah it's kind of like looking being able to see the tattoo as it's being done like you're like oh

[00:50:19] shit okay i got a lot more left to go because this is where we're at no i just can't see it you're like

[00:50:26] there was where are we well i get now i get that yeah no there was not like a scale of like hey

[00:50:33] you're here we gotta work on this this and this and then you'll maybe get here like it was

[00:50:39] yeah as you go like you know i remember this is skipping forward a little bit but like you know

[00:50:45] my third tattoo he'd come in like he'd be like wipe it so i'd wipe it and you're like okay

[00:50:53] look unless shitty and then leave so like you know tattoo number six he would like pop in halfway

[00:50:59] through a tattoo and be like all right cool take close-up pictures of every fucking line in

[00:51:05] this thing before you start shading and send it to me tonight and then i would you know get home

[00:51:12] send him everything and he would take 10 minutes to reply with screenshots of every wobble every

[00:51:18] blowout every everything like everything that was not perfect he would like like zoom in circle it

[00:51:27] with like a neon green and send it back and you like get better because you know every night when

[00:51:33] i got those like uh those text back of like all the circles and i was like i feel shitty yeah

[00:51:40] so i was like you know it it was kind of harsh but it honestly like helped me in the end to be

[00:51:46] like oh fuck like that feels horrible like at the beginning when he sits there and mentions like

[00:51:52] if there's a point where it's not worth it you know we'll try to get the fuck out and that's game over

[00:51:58] so like the more that happens the more those circles like get sent back to you you're like oh

[00:52:03] shit like what is the finite like number without like he's not speaking to me about how many times

[00:52:08] i can fuck out before i'm out of there so like i got to lock in and get decent you know i mean so

[00:52:15] yeah it definitely worked you know i don't all bet yeah no matter what like i would ever say about

[00:52:22] him positively or negatively what he did worked in that way yeah well it trained you to look out for

[00:52:30] your mistakes before you before you made them and made you cognizant of them yeah um i like that a lot

[00:52:36] yeah i mean learning the like what happens negatively of you messing up before you learn how you're

[00:52:42] messing up so then i'm like oh fuck i gotta like pay so close attention like i would i remember being

[00:52:48] so fucking close to these tattoos as i was doing them like okay all right this is happening not so

[00:52:53] that happens okay cool and then like just bit by bit piecing together like how it goes um

[00:53:01] yeah yeah what um okay so uh when when did you know or when did they say that you were ready to do

[00:53:12] your first set of that go trying to think i was probably seven or eight months into my apprenticeship

[00:53:22] um i think it was seven but anyway um he told me uh so my birthday is October 23rd and his birthday

[00:53:33] was i believe the 28th if i remember correctly maybe i'll get a message about it we'll see um

[00:53:42] but he uh his birthday was the 20 yeah the 28th and close enough to your somewhere somewhere in there

[00:53:49] sometime after my fucking birthday but he was like i was walking down the one hallway and he was like

[00:53:55] hey motherfucker for your birthday you'd probably want to be able to do your first tattoo

[00:54:01] because this was also the night of my 21st by the way oh wow yeah i know i know

[00:54:08] so yeah for my 21st 21st birthday he said you know you probably want to do your first fucking tattoo

[00:54:15] and i love getting tattooed for my birthday so um for your birthday you'll get to do a early

[00:54:22] birthday present on me and i'll let you tattoo uh a burning match stick um with a little like

[00:54:30] skull as the head of the match and he said you know you have i think he told me like two or three

[00:54:36] weeks ahead of time so you better fucking believe for two or three weeks ahead of this i drew like

[00:54:44] eight different flash sheets and they're you know like all every possible way i could

[00:54:49] fucking draw one i was like just like just in case like there's like he doesn't like the other

[00:54:54] fucking seven there's gonna be a sheet on here that he at least likes one of them you know

[00:54:59] oh that's really cool yeah so um yeah the night of my 21st birthday i didn't go out with family

[00:55:07] i didn't go off like my mom was like texting me all night or all day at the shop all night

[00:55:12] she was like when can we go get a drink for your like to celebrate with you like all my friends

[00:55:16] were blowing up my fucking phone i was in the shop till probably like 12 30 at night like wow

[00:55:22] yeah because he was he was getting tattooed by another artist so then i don't think i started

[00:55:27] till like nine or ten um yeah i spent my 21st birthday getting to do my first tattoo and like

[00:55:35] i loved every bit of it i was shitting a brick i was terrified you know but i how long did it take you

[00:55:42] i guess if you started it so fucking long yeah three and a half hours it wasn't actually three

[00:55:47] and a half hours because you know we took breaks to like eat food and shit like that uh

[00:55:51] yes set up talk about did you have a drink at least uh actually yes he uh he took me out at uh so

[00:56:00] yeah i guess backstory i kind of skipped over this but um he i got there early and i was mowing the

[00:56:08] grass actually the wrapped around uh three sides of the shop huge fucking yard yeah i was mowing the grass

[00:56:18] and you know i uh i just finished like the the last side that he was right next to where he parked

[00:56:27] his car at then he pulls up and he's like hey slut uh change your shirt um we're gonna go get you

[00:56:35] drunk so this this was like eleven thirty like right yeah yeah i like you do yeah uh it's like eleven

[00:56:44] thirty and he takes me to uh oh god i can picture but i can't remember what this place was called

[00:56:50] but it was it was a pretty nice place but we got a flight of beers and he got um a four horseman shot

[00:56:58] which was the first um his the first drink that he ever drank with his mentor so i also got

[00:57:08] the my first legal drink was the first drink that he ever drank with his mentor oh that's really

[00:57:13] cool it was a terrible shot that shit you know i'm not a huge drinker but that shit

[00:57:18] fucking up a little i'm gonna pause you real quick because i have to pee i've been sitting on

[00:57:21] this coffee as we're talking about drinking i think it's like promoting it i'm gonna pause real quick

[00:57:26] i'll be right back and then i kind of want to know what's in this shot a little bit if you remember

[00:57:31] we're right back yeah i'm gonna make coffee real quick that's good yeah do it as i'm letting my now

[00:57:38] you're all back right back uh

[00:57:46] i'm gonna look up this four horseman shot thing while he's gone

[00:57:51] he's making coffee let's see here so that was around one hour and we hit

[00:58:02] four horsemen it's a pretty four horseman shot for anybody

[00:58:12] all right four a four horseman is the perfect shot for whiskey lovers let me click on this so i

[00:58:22] have the full thing uh depends on who you ask the christ oh my god they're going into like

[00:58:34] we've made from many different types of alcohol the classic recipe calls for four whiskeys

[00:58:40] whose names start with the letter jay jimbeam john jameson johnny walker and jack daniel all are

[00:58:49] combined in equal parts to a shot glass and then serve there's no shaking straining or even

[00:58:56] stirring required oh well that's interesting very cool but they were like going into like the

[00:59:07] whole freaking like history of the four horsemen of the oh yeah i don't i don't need all that

[00:59:15] well no wonder you probably are not a whiskey drinker Josh that's probably that

[00:59:21] nice nice i should put the moon and cutie's here

[00:59:34] hello hello hi sorry oh you got weird for a second it's better know that you're back yeah

[00:59:43] so i looked it up the four horsemen is four different types of whiskey all with the letter j

[00:59:53] yes yeah so you're just not a whiskey guy i mean i look this thing like he told me it was a shot when

[01:00:02] we were driving over there and um i was like okay yeah like i've taken shots before that's fine

[01:00:08] and it was like a whiskey glass full a liquor so i was like this is not a shot this is literally

[01:00:15] just like uh this is four drinks like what does it you know um it literally is oh yeah it literally

[01:00:22] is and i was like all right cool this is fine so i was happy to learn about something i didn't know

[01:00:29] yeah it's fun um so again this is like the day i'm turning i turned 21 so i've never had a shot

[01:00:41] like that so that should hit me in the fucking chest real quick and um i remember when we got back

[01:00:49] to the shop and i still had like you know half of the fucking yard to know and i'm just sloshed

[01:00:56] already it's like 11 30 in the morning so the guys are like coming in the shop and they're like

[01:01:01] oh what's up man i'm like hey dude hey guys i'm drunk i'm feeling great yeah we got to be plaster

[01:01:10] already but it's fine um so yeah i got back to the shop finished mowing the yard and came back

[01:01:19] inside all sweaty and i you know cleaned up around the shop and just got ready to tattoo them

[01:01:26] wow yeah that's pretty cool that's a good that's a good uh 21 year old uh you know time

[01:01:36] like i think that's pretty amazing yeah regardless of like anything i could ever say like

[01:01:42] my apprenticeship was the was a great time for being 21 you know i mean like it was very

[01:01:49] fun and crazy and hectic and chaotic at times but like i loved it in a weird way like it was just

[01:01:58] yeah it was really fun for being 21 yes yes one you know this um

[01:02:07] and that's a that's a really good um i don't know that's a good thing to pass down like that was

[01:02:15] the first shot you do with his mentor and then you gave that to you i i love that on a level

[01:02:21] yeah um i do too in that like in the event that i do find one that i i think like

[01:02:29] showing them all the all the beauty that this industry has and you know if i'd ever take on an

[01:02:35] apprentice like i that's 100% something i'll take down like i i don't and you know this might be

[01:02:41] jumping forward too like i don't speak to my mentor i haven't seen him in the years like we don't

[01:02:46] have a relationship at all but like that's something that i still think fondly of that like i'm going

[01:02:53] to pass that down like he might not even know of this guy ever but you know he's going to get that

[01:03:00] because i think that's important yeah man do you know why he wanted the match stick with the

[01:03:05] skull on top i don't yeah yeah i think like i can't remember if that was something that like

[01:03:11] i was already drawing and he just said like draw one that's really good or something like that i

[01:03:16] don't i don't really remember it has a very beginning and end quality to it that's why i was asking

[01:03:22] well i i think because i was kind of doing flash sheets back then of things like that that are very

[01:03:29] like just a little traditional and the traditional jammers like spider webs crystals i mean you can

[01:03:34] stuff with fucking crystal and anything you know like yeah i drew so many of those things just because

[01:03:41] i needed practice then i think that was probably just one that he was like all right this is like

[01:03:46] decently easy enough for him to like do for his first time where did you tattoo it on

[01:03:52] like i want to say it's like on like to the left of his shin okay yeah all right very very cool so

[01:04:01] like a little little fun nookie spot yeah it was jammed in between like six other tattoos you know

[01:04:08] like it was just where we could fit it there was like three other spots and we're like yeah i think

[01:04:12] this is probably the only one that like it's actually like going to fit best but we got it in there

[01:04:18] were you sober by the time you did it oh yeah yeah i'm just curious in all honestly we probably

[01:04:24] smoked a bunch before but yeah maybe a little hungover

[01:04:30] now i yeah i felt like fully um sobered up from the drink by then but i was for sure probably

[01:04:37] high knowing how you know we operated back then i was yeah for sure yeah yeah now that's awesome um

[01:04:45] after that uh how did it look after you did your first one you know you had you had your 21st birthday

[01:04:52] so i did this first tattoo and um right out the gates uh the other two guys at the shop

[01:05:01] were like that was better than any of our three like the three of them that were there

[01:05:05] that was better than any of our first tattoos like oh awesome and that's an amazing thing to hear

[01:05:11] but then that like voice in my head creeped in and was like hey remember when he said that like

[01:05:17] if it's not worth having around anymore they'll just get rid of you like right out the gates

[01:05:22] that's really high praise and like fuck i have to live up to that every time now like i got to

[01:05:27] you know i can't dip below a certain level then um and like you know i it it's honestly

[01:05:34] a solid for if i still have a picture of i can send it to you later but i still have

[01:05:39] the picture of it on my instagram but like oh that's awesome it's cool to see still but um

[01:05:44] yeah like i said a high like mark for myself with the first tattoo um and i remember my second tattoo

[01:05:55] just as well because it was not fucking good like this you know real skinny little mother

[01:06:02] fucker was like from high school was like yeah i want you tattoo me and he picked uh

[01:06:08] on his leg like literally just the inside of his knee and he wanted an eyeball with like perfectly

[01:06:15] straight uh huge thick lines in a like a diamond shape oh really shite so he was shaking like

[01:06:23] the whole fucking time circles on circles and then yeah oh it was great it was one diamond

[01:06:30] yeah on a knee yeah so i was yeah i was shitting a brick the whole time i did like

[01:06:37] the best i could at the time and i took pictures of it and when my mentor asked me that night

[01:06:45] he's like oh how to go like we were you know i was i cleaned up and we met in his room with the other

[01:06:49] guy and i was like i fucking hated it like i was so upset i was so mad i've since like contacted

[01:06:57] the same kid multiple times i'm like yo can i cover that for free i'll do your whole fucking knee

[01:07:01] cap i don't care like let me cover that shit have you seen like uh i haven't seen in person uh since

[01:07:07] but i'm happy as bad as you think i know it's atrocious are you sure for sure yeah i remember it like

[01:07:13] it yeah i don't know um i will say this that it feels atrocious because you know you're kind of

[01:07:21] flying solo and the the anxiety of it like really kind of creeps in like you said that that voice

[01:07:28] in your head kind of the negative talk or kind of creeps in that that compounds how bad

[01:07:34] your perception is of it but i've seen tattoos that i i did at a certain time and thought holy

[01:07:40] fuck i know i know i messed them up i know it and then i saw it later and i was like wow that's really

[01:07:46] i guess that's a good point like it's really not that bad it's not horrendous like it's not some

[01:07:51] like scratcher crazy bullshit right it's just not to the standard that even then i wanted to hold

[01:07:57] myself too so i like i guess he was attached to yeah no honestly like anytime i brought it up i think

[01:08:03] i've messaged him like three times to cover it and every single time he's like dude this is a part

[01:08:07] of your story and like you know regardless like i still like it i think it's fun it's sick like

[01:08:12] it's metal as hell you know but yeah um yeah so like it's all love with it it's just silly the way

[01:08:19] we as artists are like god i gotta get rid of it i gotta hide it like it sucks um well people

[01:08:25] know what they deserve you know like uh i i kind of went in on a tattoo artist today we've already had

[01:08:31] conversations like this but it's on a tattoo forum and he was going after a tattoo studio that he

[01:08:39] perceived was putting out as bad work and i'm like what do you care first of all and second of all

[01:08:45] like people get the tattoos they deserve you know it's not fully on us as practitioners it also comes

[01:08:54] down to the clientele and how much how much research but they're coming to the table with you do not

[01:08:59] know what produced this tattoo it could have been a tattoo artist buddy it could have been it could

[01:09:06] have been a lot of things it could have been a guy who walked in and wanted a whole tattoo and

[01:09:10] didn't want to wait for a more seasoned artist and you know kind of push the issue that he had to

[01:09:15] have it now you have no idea what circumstances produced the work itself and to come at it from

[01:09:23] a purely like oh this isn't as good artistically as it can be kind of takes away from

[01:09:29] um the like he said the metalness of tattoos the the human connection that it is it's not

[01:09:37] it's not about you know the co-op you know this is an entirely different tangent that i thought

[01:09:44] I was gonna wait we both know how our conversations go but yeah um that brings me to a point

[01:09:50] that i was talking to someone about this because like this went around a little bit ago of like

[01:09:55] do you think a i's gonna take over like mid not a i but uh like uh machines that can tattoo are

[01:10:01] gonna take over and like I will stand by the fact that i don't give a fuck how much money they put

[01:10:06] into it like people always come for our experience and how human we are people don't actually want

[01:10:13] the the perfection that would come with that of just laying in a sterile white room as like a

[01:10:19] fucking machine just drills ink into you that like there's no conversation there's no communication

[01:10:25] there's no therapy to it there's no humanity to it so like like I truly believe that

[01:10:32] it will never happen i i completely i mean i will say that it'll split it'll split it um i think

[01:10:40] there are people who who like the sterile you know wham bam thinking man don't have to talk to

[01:10:47] anybody they don't really interact with people well that way um minus those freaks though

[01:10:53] what yeah yeah like we're real it's sad honestly because um you know i i think that you know even

[01:11:01] in what you've conveyed so much uh about your own experience being tattooed and what this yielded

[01:11:08] to you as as what now is your profession you know it it opened you up to something that

[01:11:15] that you didn't think you wanted to begin with and that's what being in a certain and like you said

[01:11:23] i like being in tattoo studio i like listen to the music i like the vibe i like the atmosphere

[01:11:28] you know like those kind of things are um are the things that i really think

[01:11:38] renew people and and really do the full scope of why these things are honestly so expensive

[01:11:46] i think it's going to get to a point where yeah at first it'll be really expensive for you

[01:11:51] to get a tattoo from machine but i think it'll also get to a point where it's so common

[01:11:58] that'll be it'll be cheapened and then it will be really really really lesser and still even still

[01:12:05] the people who know how to do it by hand will have this amazing place in society um where they're

[01:12:14] just revered and i don't see that going away i agree with you but i do think it will split and it will

[01:12:20] look different and it will um and i'm happy about talking about it and kind of putting it in people's

[01:12:29] minds like like we are because it gives people a perception of it um in in terms of like what it means

[01:12:38] you know like the you know like the i think the correlated to is like uh when they stop teaching kids

[01:12:47] cursive everybody's like well you know computers are taking things over why do you need to learn how to

[01:12:52] you know do the cursive well yeah but you end up finding out is that it has a greater thing about

[01:13:01] personal expression and ownership you know we we've come to a point where

[01:13:06] we don't really own very much if we own a cell phone for example yeah we own it but

[01:13:12] we have to pay for a service to actually use it if it breaks we have to pay some expert to fix it

[01:13:19] like we don't we don't really have a mastery of the things that we utilize all the time it's all

[01:13:24] these streaming services is all these things and the more you replace people with with these

[01:13:32] these technological advancements the more it separates you from what we are and what we hunger for

[01:13:39] so that's a huge expansion of what you were saying but yeah no no i get that yeah it's like

[01:13:45] we have the ownership of like you you own these tattoos that you get like

[01:13:52] i can't imagine owning a tattoo

[01:13:55] do

[01:13:57] done by someone that doesn't own the knowledge that went into it like

[01:14:00] done by a machine that is just like yeah like they're doing it but it's like they i don't know

[01:14:06] i i i yeah i don't know how to formulate the words that i like i i'm one you're on the same page

[01:14:12] though like it's yeah i think the people you call them weirdos and i do think it's kind of weird

[01:14:18] no i said freaks freaks yes yeah thank you for clarity because it's true i do think that they

[01:14:24] see people a lot more like machines or at least they would rather people to be machines

[01:14:30] because that would make life easier for them if that was the case and um that's uh

[01:14:37] that is a very odd thing that i i i hope that we're able to keep people

[01:14:47] um

[01:14:49] married to the idea that this is supposed to be something that's an exchange of

[01:14:54] humanity and life and celebrating something very specific and it's not just about the material

[01:15:00] thing that you're left with afterwards it's it's it's greater there's a humanian tattooing that

[01:15:05] i find so special that like you know i i can't imagine the if it were to flip and like we were

[01:15:11] replaced by machines that you know were they gonna bring these robots you know baked goods from home

[01:15:18] are they going you know i mean like right one of the highlights of that day in the shop is when like

[01:15:23] a client who of someone that becomes more like family of the shop comes in with like 16 like a

[01:15:30] two trays of cookies you know just like hey i was i thought of you guys enough to do this before

[01:15:36] like i appreciate you guys so much that i'm gonna make fucking banana bread or some shit and you

[01:15:41] know i mean like yes i i can't see it getting to the point where we're valued more or we're valued

[01:15:50] less than something that just does the tattoo because we do offer an experience beyond just

[01:15:56] receiving a tattoo it becomes a bureaucracy honestly yes i truly believe that like it

[01:16:02] as harsh as that maybe i don't care like i really do believe that no i think it's i think it's

[01:16:08] to it's it's inevitable conclusion by the end i mean we see so much of that happening anyway

[01:16:16] it's like it's it's too palpable not to you know confess yeah um what kind of machine did you start with

[01:16:24] oh man uh i want to say i tried a oh this is actually interesting

[01:16:33] tan not tangent but um uh i wanted to learn how to build coils and i wanted to acquire this knowledge

[01:16:42] and i was told by my mentor that uh because their autoclave was broken that none of them used them

[01:16:47] anymore or they just used uh like steel tubes and uh uh fucking like replace ones and shit so

[01:16:57] um i learned on a fucking fk irons uh like zion pan or whatever nice nice yeah man i mean the

[01:17:07] technology i mean that's what that is what we're combating right like is the uh the accessibility of

[01:17:14] technology uh that you can just you can order a machine off amazon now and just kind of

[01:17:20] make what you've seen and and have relatively more success which again kind of leads to your

[01:17:27] your first success story with your first tattoo is that like learning on a machine like that

[01:17:32] that's very ready to just plug and play as opposed to the more coil nuance kind of version of it

[01:17:40] the success rate would be higher just because it's it's it's it's formulated so dialed in yeah

[01:17:47] like it's made yeah yeah yeah it mimics the same things you don't have to worry as much about

[01:17:53] the weight differentiation and all that kind of stuff um and i do uh to touch on that i do think it's

[01:18:00] better uh to bomb first oh yeah a hundred percent and like um later i truly do feel like i

[01:18:10] lost out on that like i i wanted to experience that i wanted to like get to learn uh how to make

[01:18:17] my own needles and stuff and like sod like i wanted to acquire this information that is past time

[01:18:24] no of course but i i guess like i'm saying more so like in my uh apprenticeship like i feel like

[01:18:30] he told me that was like like he was like oh you'll switch to this anyway i was like oh okay well

[01:18:34] it's kind of a bummer like however however true it may have been like it's still

[01:18:41] it's not what i expected i guess well i mean you know there's a there's a there's a multi-faceted thing

[01:18:46] i did the same thing with my uh apprentice um but my my philosophy was uh i need you make

[01:18:52] a money i need you making money soon you need to replace an income that you're going to be walking

[01:18:57] away from you're already professional in this this way i need you to walk into something that is

[01:19:03] going to produce more success for you right away and then after you're making money then you can

[01:19:08] grow your education as you'd want but the fact of the matter is is that right now um these things are

[01:19:15] a lot more plugging play now if you want to grow your knowledge later the benefit of that is too

[01:19:21] is that you're gonna have a lot more frame of reference than just you know you're gonna experience

[01:19:28] what a cartridge is why a cartridge is what it is what different things a cartridge

[01:19:35] um is comprised of and stuff and then it kind of becomes like a mental deconstruction when you go

[01:19:41] when you learn it more analog you have a lot more points of reference based on what you've

[01:19:45] experienced from this one piece of information oh yeah then you do just building up and building up

[01:19:52] i think i think it's almost like when you build up the other way which is great because you have

[01:19:58] the knowledge and you know how to do it sometimes it's really hard for you to understand

[01:20:03] all that you've learned and track it back and kind of understand how rare that knowledge is whereas

[01:20:10] when you learn it from a certain point and then you go back then your brain starts connecting all these

[01:20:16] dots being like oh that's why this is like this and this is like this and i think it grows

[01:20:21] you know what i'm saying yeah it kind of grows your understanding and i think the knowledge gets locked

[01:20:26] in a lot more um but you know for example we're forced to go into school you know like nobody

[01:20:33] tells us why we're learning certain things we're like Jesus like what am i ever gonna use this

[01:20:40] yeah but you don't know you don't know until it's applicable in real life and then when you get

[01:20:45] out there in real life and then you kind of see what the job market's like and what is applicable

[01:20:52] and then you go back to school then you look at other kids that are there and you know maybe they

[01:20:57] just went right from high school into college but you took a couple years to work and then come back

[01:21:02] to college and now you know exactly why you're in those classes and what you're trying to

[01:21:08] lean from them then you're looking at these other people being like dude seriously this is important

[01:21:14] i'm fucking paying for this to it this point yeah and i'm really trying to figure this out so

[01:21:20] now that shouldn't you know what i mean yeah so that was kind of my whole thing with uh

[01:21:26] you know i didn't want to undermine the the coil because it is a vast amount of knowledge and i

[01:21:32] don't have nearly enough of it on my own accord um but i would like to know more and i would be willing

[01:21:39] to pay more at this point and i do think that i would probably be able to communicate better to a

[01:21:46] mentor and a teacher having had the experience that i've had now tattooing then i would have ever

[01:21:52] in the beginning because i would have just been doing what i was told and not really understanding any

[01:21:58] kind of applicable yeah i guess it's true no i do i do agree with that yeah yeah so i i think it's

[01:22:05] a it's an neat thing to when you're dealing with a a transition of technology and how it goes

[01:22:11] that way kind of you know knowing what you need as a business owner as a mentor as like all

[01:22:17] these different things and really trying to root and isolate what is the core things for this person

[01:22:23] to really activate in their lives and then should they choose you know a leader down to advance

[01:22:29] their knowledge they can but you really just want them you know in it and excited and feeling successful

[01:22:37] and you know as much as you're going to have that oh man at any point they could fire me

[01:22:43] and stuff going on um you know like that that's going to be in the head anyway but um

[01:22:51] you know you want people feeling successful pretty closely or also give up you know no a hundred

[01:22:57] percent and i think that's like it definitely helped um having that reaction to the first tattoo

[01:23:05] be like you know hey like this is really good for where you're at but keep it up yeah and then

[01:23:12] that's where like the second tattoo like when i was you know what i perceived is like not to

[01:23:18] the standard of what i wanted um you know i went into my mentors room and i was like fuck dude like

[01:23:23] i'm so fucking mad i'm so angry i was frustrated like i was feeling so much and they were like hey

[01:23:29] welcome to tattooing all right welcome to tattooing indeed Josh thank you so much for this

[01:23:38] listeners this is the first part with Josh definitely come back next week to hear part two of his

[01:23:44] diary entry he's a wonderful guy again you can find him at rapture tattoo imporium they're located

[01:23:52] in mechanicsburg pa they have actually two locations but the one that you'll find Josh at

[01:23:58] is in mechanicsburg definitely go check it out because it's a beautiful beautiful studio um

[01:24:04] jake kirk who owns it has actually themed it by uh um bioshock the video game so it has this whole

[01:24:15] rapture theme i don't i don't know the video game i'm really really bad with anything pop culture to

[01:24:23] be honest but i've had i've had people um you know comments on it and recognize it has a really

[01:24:31] cool like turn of the century like 1920s art nouveau kind of feel to it and um yeah it's it's

[01:24:40] very beautiful i mean it's a gorgeous shop and from what i understand jake just expanded so

[01:24:46] it should be pretty cool to go there and visit and of course you're gonna find immense talent

[01:24:52] Josh is there amongst other people and i actually heard that they they now have a piercer so

[01:24:58] go check it out come back next week make it a powerful week and uh if you're in the area the

[01:25:05] Baltimore tattoo convention is going on you can find me there my booth name is nese and beyond

[01:25:12] the pale art studio um nese is doing massage so you have a a variety of massage that you can check

[01:25:21] her out with uh she's doing it basically what can be done in a massage chair so come see us get

[01:25:28] relaxed maybe get a tattoo uh definitely see tattoos meet some artist gather some art there's

[01:25:34] gonna be so much art to collect i love you listeners have a great week god bless later

[01:25:47] thanks for listening you can find the apprenticeship diaries on twitter, facebook and instagram

[01:25:52] r-i-g is the underscore apprenticeship underscore diaries if you would like to offer constructive

[01:25:58] criticism or an interview drop us an email at the apprenticeship diaries at gmail.com we look forward

[01:26:04] to hearing from our listeners