Ep. 208 "Respect & Love" (Diary Entry 2:2 with Josh Hoffman)

[00:00:00] Alright diary listeners, holy crap I already recorded all of this but it got

[00:00:07] lost. It was so freaking good to listeners. Ah Josh, Josh I am I am still a baby

[00:00:21] podcaster here. Here is diary listeners, my gracious, my beautiful, my kind, my

[00:00:32] dedicated, integral, just loyal listeners. This is part two of Josh Hoffman's diary

[00:00:43] entry and we are calling it Respect and Love.

[00:00:52] Welcome to the Apprenticeship Diaries where raw meats were fine. Let's be real we're still

[00:00:56] working on the fun. What it took, what it takes and the stories that are made. Join

[00:01:02] us as we learn from professionals about how their stories began.

[00:01:07] You were not perfect and it's okay. It's fine. And then of course they, you know, the one

[00:01:22] guy was like, oh I got you something, hold on I'll come right back. I'll be right back

[00:01:25] and he went and grabbed a fucking bowl and was like, hey this will help. Yeah, he was

[00:01:31] like, alright here's how we cope with when we mess up a tattoo. But you know like as silly as it is

[00:01:38] like you know their weird way of showing love in that moment was like alright yeah I know

[00:01:43] you're right like it is okay that I can as an imperfect person using a machine to implement

[00:01:50] fucking a permanent thing on someone that's also imperfect. Like there's going to be

[00:01:56] times where it's not to the degree that you want to operate at but it's still an experience

[00:02:03] and that guy like loves the tattoo and like there's nothing I can say to take away from

[00:02:09] that. Like he still values that moment of receiving that tattoo even though I look back

[00:02:15] and like cringing you know but like in a weird fucked up strange way them telling me

[00:02:23] that in that way and give me a bong and be like yeah it's fine man like it welcome like

[00:02:27] it helped. Yeah I mean it was the same when I fell off a horse for the first time they're

[00:02:33] like oh look at that now you're a horseback rider. You're like you're not a rider until

[00:02:37] you fall off. And I was like well that's an interesting thing to think about it with

[00:02:43] but okay and it was it was very celebrated like very celebratory like look at that you

[00:02:47] got the wind knocked out of you. There you go that's right. Yeah congrats one of us like yeah

[00:02:53] yeah it's it's strange but like I do appreciate that I don't know. Yeah yeah no I think that's

[00:02:59] good that's good and this is a very big evolution of your caring because you know

[00:03:04] like you said you went from you know not really giving a shit and you know really having

[00:03:10] it be about you and what you wanted it to be and not wanting to infringe upon that and

[00:03:16] then this is kind of the path of you really caring and and wanting to be as good as you can be

[00:03:23] and not just for yourself. Yeah no there's a lot more riding on it than just like oh how good am I

[00:03:30] at doing this? Like yeah yeah talking about character development like I think it as tattooers

[00:03:37] though we do like kind of develop as we do this though like for better or for worse like

[00:03:42] it's just how it goes but I'm grateful for the way that it has happened so far for sure.

[00:03:49] Yeah so you've mentioned it a couple times I know that in the you know in the times that

[00:03:57] we've spoken a drug culture was very much so a part of your apprenticeship do you want to

[00:04:03] dip into that a little bit because that's where a lot of people can get off the rails you

[00:04:08] know like if you have more of an addictive personality and stuff that can really with the

[00:04:12] amount of money that you can glean from a tattoo that can go a lot of places. Yeah yeah no I'm

[00:04:20] completely fine with talking about that I guess I don't really know where to start but

[00:04:24] there was so much having you know been I don't know in my apprenticeship I was just like

[00:04:33] the beginning at least I was you know single I was 21 I was drinking with my friends and like

[00:04:39] smoking weed all the time and then when I get in my apprenticeship and they had like I get there

[00:04:45] I'm like oh this place is awesome there's like a fridge full of beer all the time and you know

[00:04:52] I go back in the room when they're like giving when he's giving me a tour of

[00:04:56] on my first day and there's a whole room dedicated to bongs and pieces I'm like whoa this is

[00:05:02] fucking sick like this is great you know. Fuck HR. Yeah like who's HR and you know my mentor's like

[00:05:11] me it's fine like alright yeah it was wild and I was like whoa cool like you know at 21 I'm just

[00:05:20] nice that's my reaction I'm like hey that's cool I really like that and you know the more I was there

[00:05:30] the more I fucking smoked and you know just all the time like that's just what it was and

[00:05:36] by no means do I by no means do I regret that like that was of amazing fun time of my life

[00:05:42] but the more I was tattooing and the more I saw in tattooing and the more I like

[00:05:48] was wrapped into this lovely blanket of the tattoo industry that we all get to be a part of

[00:05:55] I noticed that I didn't want that for myself anymore even seeing in the ways that like

[00:06:03] regularly like smoking like and I'm not saying regularly like two times a day I don't really

[00:06:07] give a fuck if you spoke two times a day man but like if you sit there and you need to take

[00:06:14] a break every 30 minutes to you know go back to the break room like to revitalize yourself like

[00:06:21] I don't like I don't see an argument that someone could do that says it doesn't take away from what

[00:06:28] I'm doing I just I truly believe that like and it's by no means like go for it if you want to

[00:06:35] but in my personal life I have seen that it just is not worth it like for me

[00:06:41] um I thought it take like took away from my reactions just with like talking to people

[00:06:48] like I felt sluggish and slow even like being uh

[00:06:55] not coherent but I guess like all the way there in the morning even like after a long

[00:07:00] night tattooing and smoking like getting in the shop and feeling like god damn I feel so like

[00:07:06] down like it takes so much out of you and then um as I got like more used to it and like started

[00:07:16] having these like the awareness of like oh I'm good I don't I don't want to smoke today I'm

[00:07:19] all right and like the more they offer the more I realize like god these guys asked me if I want

[00:07:23] to smoke like eight times just in like a span of six hours I'm like I'm okay man like I'm good

[00:07:28] I'm just enjoying being here and then it clicks in your head too of like you know I'm at this point

[00:07:36] 21 covered in tattoos like you know there's pounds of weed like you know rolling around this place

[00:07:44] all the time like if someone were to slip up because of being high all the time and they get

[00:07:51] popped at the shop I am there's no cop in the world that's gonna look at my ass and be like

[00:07:58] you know what yeah I trust him he had nobody it was happening like surely he didn't know there

[00:08:02] was pot in here all the time um and it became just not worth that risk like I I can't knowingly

[00:08:11] stay in a place that if I want to be taken seriously yeah it's detrimental to my career

[00:08:18] oh yeah yeah yeah and that's before we even also started like doing mushrooms like four

[00:08:24] fucking times a day so like it just it it can't I can't I couldn't flourish in that place in that

[00:08:30] space I didn't know how you did that before that there was an incident that you talked about where

[00:08:36] your mentor made you smoke cash was it like really oh no no how'd it go no how'd it go

[00:08:44] it was cute I wanted to come out on the podcast because I did think it was it was it was a

[00:08:48] good lesson when I was talking about uh one of my buddies at the shop but it wasn't my mentor it was

[00:08:55] one of my buddies at the shop okay I love this guy but he uh I was kind of saying how I was over it and

[00:09:02] I like had declined it's like oh I'm good like I don't I'm okay and he was like oh yeah cool

[00:09:08] like stare at like making perfect eye contact like staring at me like yeah yeah all right I got you

[00:09:13] yeah yeah um as he's like lighting up um resin resin that's what it was huge huge piece and

[00:09:21] he sets it right in front of me and he said that glob's like $40 don't waste it so you know I'm like

[00:09:28] oh fuck I'm gonna go waste it shit yeah um but yeah I like honestly like

[00:09:36] as cute and silly and like you know that's that was the homie like I look upon that moment

[00:09:41] it's such a funny thing but I also like needed to make that boundary for myself afterwards of

[00:09:48] like you know like no like why would I do that like if I'm like feeling like I shouldn't be doing that

[00:09:53] and not wanting to do that anymore like why would I cave on that right so that was like kind of the

[00:09:59] the stepping stone moment of being like you know I I don't feel like altogether I don't say

[00:10:04] uncomfortable like there's a negative connotation with uncomfortable of course where it's like

[00:10:09] I don't feel safe here I felt entirely safe there it was more like the unknowing like

[00:10:14] I don't feel comfortable chancing it on other people's uh

[00:10:20] Comfortability yeah yeah yeah I just yeah I was I was not comfortable with that anymore

[00:10:26] yeah no it makes complete sense and and honestly as far as like pot is concerned anyway I

[00:10:33] I view it as such a communal drug that if the clients are not equally coming in and being

[00:10:40] offered the same thing it's like that's $40 of resin don't waste it and they're not all

[00:10:46] poking up together and that's the culture that they're coming for for me I I I really can't

[00:10:52] perform because that's when I will get I will get anxiety from doing a drug like that is if

[00:10:57] it's not a communal thing that everything everyone's doing or at least has access to

[00:11:02] then I'll start going oh my god is this okay am I is it okay for me to be like like this right now

[00:11:08] and I'll get it'll it'll distract me from what I'm supposed to do so it's good to recognize that

[00:11:13] about yourself and um uh and also I think that uh people who are pushers and you know I hate

[00:11:23] to put it that way but like it's kind of how they show love I mean Rico's a good example

[00:11:28] I'm now on a carnivore diet and uh that's motherfucker keeps bringing food into this house

[00:11:35] and like offering it to me even though he knows my conviction especially with like I can imagine

[00:11:41] this like you're like sitting there with like the fifth piece of like the fifth steak that

[00:11:45] you've eaten like yeah in this week and he comes home from like the shop and there's uh you know

[00:11:52] a thing full of uh like pizza and like anything like all this shit yeah anything just a piece of fruit

[00:12:01] he's like overeating at this point like he's like like last night he just he came in to the room after

[00:12:07] having eaten again and he's like I'm so full and he's eating a fucking apple and I'm like why

[00:12:13] are you eating an apple he's like I don't know man I just I'm just looking at him being like

[00:12:19] dude it's it's like having to smoke every half hour just to do what exactly and like you said

[00:12:29] it's more than just like the allowance of it or anything like that it when you when you're able

[00:12:34] to sit there and really break it down and process it and what you were saying earlier about the

[00:12:38] economics of a setup that isn't overdone you know like it seems like that was kind of traded

[00:12:47] for a lifestyle that was vastly overdone when it came to uh you know the drug use too because you

[00:12:54] know whatever you're not spending on the setup you're spending on this habit that you have

[00:13:01] and that's kind of how I see it in my life too I was like really looking forward to having

[00:13:06] lower costs when it came down to our grocery bill but that'll never happen with the man

[00:13:10] that I have he's Italian he's a feeder he's just if he's not feeding me he's feeding himself

[00:13:16] it's just like and I you know I give him a lot of things but it's his love language and I do think

[00:13:21] that that that is something and I don't mean to call him pushers but like people who like to celebrate

[00:13:28] you know the collective you know vibe I feel almost bad talking about that in a negative

[00:13:37] way even though like I don't I don't feel bad but it's I see what you're saying I'm not complaining

[00:13:43] because again those were some of like the most fun times of my life I was 21 like that she was fun as

[00:13:48] fuck but I recognized once I had this like uh these little moments of clarity hit me when I was not

[00:13:57] stoned and on mushrooms constantly that I was like wow like this clarity is amazing like I really

[00:14:05] forgot what it was like and I didn't want to give that up anymore like I really enjoyed that

[00:14:12] clarity so like yeah that was their love language like they were just getting me fucked up because

[00:14:16] they wanted to have fun and like just you know like be boys and I love that but I recognize that

[00:14:23] that's not what I needed anymore in my life and like I was I reached a point where I was like

[00:14:28] okay with that like yeah and I knew that I would let you know lose them as not I don't say lose

[00:14:33] them as friends but like I knew that I would give up the relationships I had because I needed

[00:14:41] to grow yeah yeah no and it's a it's a classic tale and I'm glad that we're speaking about it because

[00:14:53] you know with anybody when you're trying to um like you said grow I mean this is a whole thing

[00:15:01] about learning growth progression it's really important to know you know when you're in a

[00:15:08] situation that doesn't serve you anymore and a lot of a lot of ways I wish I would have known that more

[00:15:12] in my own story um you know you get better and better as time goes on kind of calling the shots

[00:15:18] and being like yeah dude that's fine fine for you not for me um I'm good but you know in the

[00:15:24] beginning um you know you get caught up in certain certain cyclical kind of things in

[00:15:30] certain relationships and really really to like pursue what you know as your own betterment

[00:15:36] um which you know for selling that in a professional way to people um you just gotta pursue it and walk

[00:15:44] away and it is just business at that point and it's really no hard feeling so as many hard feelings

[00:15:51] this can happen oh yeah I was gonna say oh it's mushrooms like I know you've talked about it before

[00:15:58] I can't imagine that I never had like any

[00:16:06] I've never had any like crazy visuals like um I've never taken like LSD or anything

[00:16:14] but everyone that I talked to about mushrooms has said that it's like

[00:16:17] nothing in comparison like they say I asked and there's so much more vivid um I have

[00:16:24] of course a fun story that I've mentioned to you about um but you know the day I was going to

[00:16:31] come to my mentor and say like hey I need to leave like it's just it's not working out for me in a

[00:16:37] way that like uh it's no hard feelings like I still have love for those guys and like appreciation

[00:16:42] for what all I got to do there um but I just felt it in like in my heart that I needed to go

[00:16:49] it was the same day I was gonna tell him all this and I go in and uh my one buddy that was working

[00:16:55] there was like oh hey man like he was there early he was like hey man uh do any mushrooms and I was like

[00:17:05] in the way that like I can't account for someone else's feelings I'm like

[00:17:09] I it crossed my mind I was like I have no idea how my mentor is gonna react like

[00:17:15] he could beat the shit out of me on the spot he could punch me in the gut and just walk away

[00:17:21] he could you know go full silent he could just yell at me he could berate me like whatever he

[00:17:27] wants to say I'm like I have no idea so um I had the thought cross my head that

[00:17:33] you know if I'm gonna get the shit kicked out of me if I'm gonna get punched in the face

[00:17:37] I'd rather do it on mushrooms so I uh you know a handful of mushrooms with my buddy and you know

[00:17:46] like an hour and a half later my mentor gets there and they immediately start kicking in

[00:17:52] as I'm telling you know really one of like at this point I was you know still I was at the end

[00:18:01] of working night shift and I was still like hanging out at the shop all the time like any

[00:18:09] time in the day that I had I was at the shop I wanted to like be there and progress and learn

[00:18:15] and you know like I didn't have time to hang out with my friends before tattooing like as

[00:18:22] frequently like I never saw them and like it you know I felt like shit because of it like

[00:18:28] after you know I got out of there I had free time I of course like connected with them again but it was

[00:18:33] like it was sweet and I was bittersweet because I was like damn I lost my like main friendships for

[00:18:38] a year and a half there like these guys at the shop were the only friends I really had other

[00:18:44] than my girlfriend so like I literally like in an emotional state because of mushrooms are just

[00:18:51] heightening emotionally like vulnerable I am I'm like fighting back shedding a tear as I'm telling

[00:19:00] my mentor like dude like I have to go somewhere else like I just I love this industry and I

[00:19:05] I will never do anything else like I can't like this is the only thing I really want to do ever

[00:19:13] but for some reason like I was in such an emotionally heightened point that I was just

[00:19:17] dude like shedding like two or three tears as I'm like dude like I just I don't know like it's just

[00:19:23] what I need to do and I feel it like so deeply that it just is like it it's not even though I want to

[00:19:30] I have to right so yeah it was it was kind of silly but I was probably kept you from getting a

[00:19:37] very awful reaction oh yeah yeah yeah I really do like you know whether he despises me like

[00:19:46] just doesn't like me even if it's just hard feelings whatever it is like I'm sure he could

[00:19:52] tell that I was genuinely like really upset that I moved yeah yeah what was his reaction

[00:19:59] um I mean I he was kind of a busy body so I think he kind of like he like walked around and was

[00:20:07] just like busying himself with things but he did he did this thing he did for a year and a half

[00:20:13] where he'd say walk with me and just like start doing shit so he just you know it was like almost

[00:20:19] fitting as old times just all right walk with him and um sorry I give you one sec that's fine

[00:20:27] your little wiener dog I love it oh man hilarious

[00:20:34] sorry they started yeah it's fine you got little puppies so where was I um he started walking with

[00:20:45] you which is yes yeah it's kind of very bill burr kind of thing because it remember like whenever

[00:20:49] he's gonna have a conversation with the sun he said I'm gonna go play ball we're gonna play

[00:20:53] ball and we're gonna discuss it so it's a very manly kind of like walk with me we're gonna be

[00:20:59] doing stuff as you're telling me this shit this motherfucker took me outside and you just

[00:21:03] started like deadheading a fucking rose bush outside all right all right I don't know what to do um

[00:21:12] yeah I told him like I uh I forget how long it was because I wanted of course respect his time but

[00:21:20] also like not give him time to like harbor resentment even longer while I'm there I

[00:21:27] I'm pretty sure I like I did like three or four weeks of just like hey like I don't mind like if you

[00:21:35] don't feel comfortable with me having a kid being here by all means I'll get my shit out today if

[00:21:40] that's what you want but like I did it in a way that was like I like I'm not set to start at like

[00:21:46] this other shop like I am literally like I want you to feel as comfortable as possible as well as

[00:21:52] myself so um you know we talked about it a little bit and you know I continued working there for like

[00:22:00] I think it was three weeks um and you know he was obviously very cold towards me but it was like it

[00:22:10] he also talked to me a lot more directly just very like this is how it is that like this that

[00:22:16] whatever like I'd give him my money after every tattoo like his cut and like all right cool

[00:22:22] like um and that's where like I could tell that was like me like saying I was leaving was kind of like

[00:22:30] the um ending of that as a friendship and it became business like that's where it is yeah um

[00:22:40] but you know and you know it's all love in the way that like I will always appreciate that

[00:22:47] motherfucker like yeah like he letting some sorry ass wampie fucking long haired dweeb like with

[00:22:57] fucking a pile full of charcoal drawings come into a shop and like say like hey yeah man sure

[00:23:02] like we'll give you a shot like I will always have love for that let's not forget the eight

[00:23:07] grand you had in your pocket yeah I guess yeah well yeah so this is a funny yeah I kind of forgot

[00:23:12] about that uh so I had taken that in and he said like nope like you know I don't believe that you

[00:23:19] should pay for an apprenticeship um if it works out it works out fuck yeah if it doesn't you get

[00:23:25] the fuck out and uh it was that like again I've mentioned so many times but like that was the

[00:23:31] understanding that I had and when I went to leave he said damn I guess I should have made

[00:23:38] you pay for it and I was like what an interesting like response I don't know I found that so

[00:23:46] fascinating but um yeah positive or negative I don't know I was like uh all right it's very it's very

[00:23:55] you know it's hard uh yeah uh I think when you teach somebody in a mentorship it's

[00:24:02] really hard especially as intimate as the one-on-one is with bringing somebody into your crew

[00:24:07] and then teaching them to um be graceful when they know and when and you have to be graceful about

[00:24:16] your own abilities as a person um as an artist as everything to um I think manage that correctly

[00:24:28] um and know that in the end of the day it is just business and it is about um somebody else's

[00:24:37] advancement and it uh I think he realized in that moment that that he had set himself up for

[00:24:44] exactly that and that you were you were um you know trying to come with it as well

[00:24:52] intentioned as possible in the beginning from from point blank day one you know um and I do think that

[00:25:01] there's something that that happens with people where they think well within business that you

[00:25:06] know if you grow a friendship to a certain point that it that it becomes more and that

[00:25:10] it's gonna and I've had this like I've not left places because you know I got fired and I was

[00:25:15] like oh shit man like I thought we were more than that man so on the other end it feels

[00:25:20] shitty you know you feel like wow dude like I really should have kept the boundaries better

[00:25:27] in that um and you know in your heart of hearts you know that's the case but because you know

[00:25:35] it's such a small group of people and what you're learning is is so much a passion

[00:25:42] that you share things that you never share with anybody else I mean you shared your

[00:25:46] 21st birthday with him and he got a tattoo from you at that point like that was that's huge

[00:25:54] and um yeah I mean it's an interesting thing to say but I do think it was him being like

[00:25:59] I'm his socks I'm hurt I think like I know like I'm sure he felt betrayed I'm sure he felt

[00:26:07] you know I mean like I get it and like I kind of told him that I was like I I would feel the

[00:26:12] same fucking way like they I can't not do it because you'll feel that way but I have to do it

[00:26:19] and I know you're gonna feel how I would feel in the same position like and it was really

[00:26:26] like saying goodbye to a friend in that moment it was like weird like I could just tell

[00:26:30] that I would never hang out with this person again I was like yeah like I just yeah it's

[00:26:35] just how it goes but um sorry I was gonna say no I mean I'm interrupting you I was gonna say

[00:26:41] interestingly enough that's what happened to me in the podcast world you know I started out with a um

[00:26:46] relationship podcast and my friend Amy D we went into it and uh you know those were

[00:26:53] such great podcasting days but it came to a point where we really hadn't talked about the

[00:27:00] boundaries of how we were going to formulate the podcast and it got to a place with me anyway

[00:27:07] that I did not it was kind of like you with the drugs like thinking about it in terms of

[00:27:11] your future and what felt good to you and what you were trying to craft for yourself and what

[00:27:17] what that looked like and the risks that you were taking and and how you felt about it

[00:27:25] it became kind of the same thing with me and Amy and I never fully communicated that to her

[00:27:30] I just simply was like you know I think it's time for me to have my own podcast and move on from

[00:27:36] this I think this is more your thing at this point which it ended up not being which I was

[00:27:43] really upset about because I thought that you know she was kind of taking that ownership of it in a

[00:27:50] very real way the foundation was hers um the whole name was hers and and the premise was hers

[00:27:56] and so I thought you know I didn't I didn't feel like I had equal ownership I felt like

[00:28:02] it was more her so if anybody was going to dip it was me but I never had that like very in depth

[00:28:09] friend conversation to kind of you know even see if it could be different I just was like this is

[00:28:16] my exit and we really haven't spoken much since and it's um it's upsetting to me a bit because

[00:28:23] I love her yeah and I love her and I and parts of me are like wow should I have had

[00:28:31] that conversation um I don't I don't know I mean and who knows what would have happened if you had

[00:28:38] said to him like yeah dude like you know part of the reason why you're not mentioning him is that

[00:28:42] like you know because of the culture of the studio like the implications of bringing attention

[00:28:48] to that much you know adamant drug usage is that you just can't do it you can't let it air

[00:28:54] and you know I'm not doing it like I yeah I guess it's one of those things were like um

[00:29:02] I respect him like as yeah his own person is his own life like his own entity like I'm not going to

[00:29:09] air out like I don't feel like I'm talking positively or negatively about anything like

[00:29:17] about him about a shot like I have respect and love for that guy like but I it's not honoring myself to

[00:29:27] not talk about my own experiences whether it be positive or negative or some fucking gray matter

[00:29:32] in between you know like I but I would never want someone to feel like I'm airing out dirty

[00:29:39] laundry or like like talking shit just because I'm on a podcast and have like you know I'm

[00:29:45] yeah like I do want to make it clear that like I'm talking about experiences that I had not

[00:29:51] negatively or positively like it's just like man it was and it's emotional too because I think

[00:29:58] you're giving a really good view of what it what it really is like you know like yeah um

[00:30:05] in a lot of cases I mean I just you know Nick Baxter's post like he reached a point with his

[00:30:11] mentor that he chatted out love but you know it was they both got to a point where Nick had to

[00:30:18] go to him and be like listen dude I gotta I gotta pursue this here and you know it was I'm sure

[00:30:25] it was hard for uh you know your mentor to look at you yeah and all parties all parties but yeah

[00:30:32] that's the thing is that like you know I I don't get a sense just so you know from what we've

[00:30:38] already discussed that this is positive or negative it just is what it is um and I think it's good for

[00:30:43] people to understand that this is the um the muck of business and learning a craft and having to

[00:30:52] progress yourself and having to constantly make choices that kind of kind of suck you know like

[00:30:59] there's humanity though like that's just the thick of it it's how it goes and like um

[00:31:04] um yeah I guess like I didn't even I kind of made that preference of uh not preference uh

[00:31:09] I kind of prefaced like I'm not saying anything negative or positive like um I guess I also wanted

[00:31:16] to say that like I sorry I'm thinking other words I guess um I came into this like shop in a time

[00:31:31] where his like home life was very much changing and that's another thing I this is a I guess a

[00:31:40] reason I don't harbor resentment or like any hard feelings to no matter how harshly he like had

[00:31:47] talked to me or like anything he said like I never I took it with a grain of salt because

[00:31:53] we all go through shit like I could never attribute like if he's genuinely mad at me like

[00:31:59] you know calling me a piece of shit or like god I fucking hate you like it's it's not him actually

[00:32:07] hating me it's he has so much emotions going on in his own own home life that it's like he's not

[00:32:12] sitting there harboring resentment at me for you know using the wrong like wipe to wipe

[00:32:18] something down or like anything like that like it is literally just um those little inklings of

[00:32:25] frustration in the day-to-day life that come out yeah like and it made it a very bipolar atmosphere

[00:32:34] to where I think I've mentioned this to you like uh when we've talked but um

[00:32:39] you know he would get into the shop and I would like you know his fucking station would be ready

[00:32:45] he'd be like ready to rock and roll for his appointments and I'd tap him up be like yo what's

[00:32:49] up man how's it going like good morning all that kind of shit and I would never know if it

[00:32:54] was like the my closest friend coming in or an asshole that just was not excited to see me at all

[00:33:03] like right it was like I was either gonna have someone that looks down upon me as like less than

[00:33:09] a human being or like a fucking homie like you know like we dap up like uh like in predator

[00:33:16] when fucking like arnie you know like dylan you son of a bitch like like this awesome handshake

[00:33:22] like you had no idea and I think that's what made it such a like it was even less of like the weed

[00:33:30] and stuff like obviously that was an influence of my decision of leaving but to to live day-to-day

[00:33:38] on a shaky foundation of not knowing how people are going to react to you like that is a uh

[00:33:46] it makes sense that you would feel imbalanced you know I mean like it makes sense that it

[00:33:49] would feel like like tilted a little of like yeah what do I like how do I perceive every day of coming

[00:33:56] in here right not knowing what I'm gonna receive you know I mean like right yeah I don't know what

[00:34:02] I'm sure it reinforced that whole you know like you said in the very beginning like this is either

[00:34:07] going to work out or it's not going to work out and that was the foundation of it was this

[00:34:11] very bipolar kind of untethered uncorrigued graph no curriculum yeah day by day just watch

[00:34:19] and learn and walk with me yeah I think in another life like it would have been so much more structured

[00:34:26] because he was a very organized person who is very structured and the ways he did things

[00:34:32] and it was like that one aspect that he just could not like

[00:34:39] have the time to think about was obviously me like why would I take up more space in his

[00:34:45] life of what all he thinks about like with a kid with a like trying to make a relationship work like

[00:34:51] it makes sense that some little fucking idiot that you know cleans the shop sometimes and

[00:34:56] like tattoos every once in a while like of course I'm going to be the last like

[00:35:01] oh it's it's you know what I mean well yeah I mean I think it's important to

[00:35:07] to see it as you're saying I wouldn't under under scale you I think it's really good that you

[00:35:11] had compassion because a lot of people don't and and they feel like so much more should be given

[00:35:18] and it's like dude this this person I mean they own a shop they have a kid they they they're tattooing

[00:35:25] they're also you know somebody's partner like this is they're spreading themselves very thin

[00:35:31] and it's it's like a boyfriend of mine once being like I just feel like I'm never like I'm

[00:35:36] always last on your list and I was like dude you're on the fucking list you're on the list

[00:35:42] do you know how many things make the list and I was like and you're not like you're just you're

[00:35:47] just always focused on it when you are like it's a sliding scale man on any given day like I'm

[00:35:54] I'm sorry but that's how it goes it's like I mean you're a full grown adult I'm sure I'm not

[00:35:59] top of your priorities every single second 100% I think you're right it's something that

[00:36:06] like I don't by any means think I'm like so I'm perfectly aware human being like conscious of every

[00:36:12] step I take in every direction like but I think I'm like back then even that 21 you know being like

[00:36:19] just recently having smoked weed less I then uh I consider myself aware in the way that like

[00:36:27] you know I was aware of the fact that like he had a lot going on I was aware of the fact

[00:36:33] that like why would he sit there and constantly at home think of the structure for the next day for

[00:36:42] me to draw I'm at that point using like obviously he's investing in me so that like I one day tattoo

[00:36:49] for years out of his shop and make him enough money that it warrants being worth it but

[00:36:55] at that moment right I was just a fucking like I was sitting there drinking beer with him in his

[00:37:00] shop taking up a room and using supplies to give him you know like make it a little more

[00:37:10] complicated yeah make his life more complicated well it's hard it's hard it's hard to see the

[00:37:15] forest through the trees a lot of the time you have more perspective on that though like having

[00:37:20] had an apprentice but like no because I was just gonna say about you you're an older sibling to

[00:37:25] much younger siblings and I think that that's what has given you at least that amount of compassion

[00:37:31] to have for your mentor in that way um for you to understand and realize the fact that he had a lot

[00:37:37] more going on than just you um it still doesn't take away from what you need as a person yeah so

[00:37:44] you know it was what it was but um I do think that you have had a lot of that perspective

[00:37:51] I only have one younger sibling and like I've told you when we were growing up I was like fuck this

[00:37:55] asshole I don't I don't like him I didn't want him I'm just as much of a kid as he is screw you

[00:38:01] if you think that I am responsible for him I am not but you did take a lot of the responsibility

[00:38:07] of your siblings on so I think that your perspective and your um uh you know awareness

[00:38:14] of those things is a lot more compassionate um than mine uh honestly yeah man like it's taking me

[00:38:21] a long time to grow up I get it um yeah I don't know I guess I I want to like I guess I wanted

[00:38:31] to like touch base on that of like the actual atmosphere of my you know the atmosphere of

[00:38:38] my apprenticeship of yeah well honestly at that point it was fucking home like I talked about like

[00:38:45] night shift and then being at the shop like I had one day a week off or sorry uh one day a week

[00:38:52] that was not at the shop or the night shift I had like one day a week that I would work at one

[00:39:01] place and not the other both ways so you know I was sleeping when you were sleeping but I mean when

[00:39:11] you were off I'm sure that's probably all you oh yeah yeah no I would I would spend a full day

[00:39:16] sleeping so that the next day when I worked again I could like get back to it but um

[00:39:23] yeah like the the atmosphere was very like what is it gonna be so like it um

[00:39:30] it made sense in a way that what am I seeking I'm of course at that moment seeking to be taken

[00:39:37] seriously I can't like set up for my appointment not knowing if an hour if in an hour like my

[00:39:45] boss is gonna come in and tell me to like tear down not tattoo today and like run errands

[00:39:51] or if he's gonna like respect that he already let me do something you know I mean like I I

[00:39:58] I just didn't know what to expect I guess had that have happened to you before where you had said

[00:40:03] uh oh that that's they see that so there was a moment where um he

[00:40:13] oh I'm trying to think it's it's so weird for telling something that like

[00:40:17] it really wasn't that long ago but it feels like two lifetimes you know it feels so vastly

[00:40:22] removed from like the way my life goes right now but yeah I mean rapture is very very different too

[00:40:28] yeah um but there was a time where I was setting up and like had a stencil on one of my buddies

[00:40:36] because at this point uh you know I was just tattooing friends and shit and um you know he

[00:40:41] drove like 40 minutes to get there I had a stencil on him and uh he made me mow the grass um every

[00:40:52] seven days like with uh sorry I should say within every seven days so that day was the seventh day

[00:41:00] and like 11 or whatever time was like uh the only time that guy could come in for the appointment

[00:41:07] that day so I texted him like a week before I was like oh yo just so you know like uh I'm gonna mow

[00:41:13] the grass this day and tattoo him in like the morning so he felt uh when he got in he like

[00:41:22] gave me shit because someone had driven past and said like like someone he knew that came to

[00:41:28] the shop sometimes like a client texted him was like oh the grass is looking a little long

[00:41:33] and he made me like tear down send my friend home and mow the grass and I was like it's

[00:41:41] little trivial things like that that like really let me know like he's reaching for control at that

[00:41:47] point he's trying to gain control of like anything he can because he feels out of touch with

[00:41:54] everything else that's going on outside his life yeah and again like it sucked in the moment

[00:42:00] I was fucking fuming because like that's my homey and now you know I feel like I wasted someone's time

[00:42:06] and like you know he was down about it like it sucked but in like now I can look at that and

[00:42:11] be like yeah like you know I'm aware of why I get it like it sucks but it is what it is well and

[00:42:18] on a larger level too I mean when you have an adamant rule like that um you know in an

[00:42:25] atmosphere where there is no prescription for an apprenticeship and you can teach people the way

[00:42:31] you want to and you're communicating not only that to your apprentice but it's become it's

[00:42:38] something that people outside of their apprenticeship know whether or not this actually happened or he

[00:42:42] just told you that that's how it went down but I find that when apprenticeships are happening

[00:42:48] the clients get very involved in that you know in that thing too and sometimes mentors will pull

[00:42:55] clients in to kind of partially haze you know their apprentices and so they it becomes this very

[00:43:03] gang up on you kind of thing where people love to like you know kind of feel like they're part of

[00:43:10] it too in some way um and so it does it piles on and you know whether that happened or not and

[00:43:19] there was actually a person said oh the grass is looking a bit long but you know when you open

[00:43:24] that up is something that's a regular of your repertoire and and it's outside of the studio

[00:43:31] I'm saying that like jokingly just giving him just like yeah like someone that is existing in a

[00:43:38] very like bipolar I don't want to say bipolar but like a bipolar state of like um I never knew if he

[00:43:45] was giving me shit jokingly as a friend or if he was like dead serious if you laugh at this you're

[00:43:52] fired right so like I would have been fucked because I always laugh when I don't know what's

[00:43:58] happening yeah 100 yeah just like uh this actually this relates to a different story I was I remember

[00:44:05] being sorry for taking too much time with this I'm like you're not this is your time um

[00:44:09] it's your time I remember I think I've definitely told you this one but uh I remember um my buddy

[00:44:17] got me uh me and all my friends tickets to a pirates game so all my friends were driving

[00:44:23] up to the pirates game and we were staying at my buddy's house and uh you know my mentors

[00:44:29] wanted me to close so I was like all right cool like I I will be late and that's fine like

[00:44:35] priority is the shop like I'm doing what I gotta do so I close up the shop on time like right when

[00:44:40] he wanted me to and uh I already had checked with him and he was 100 fine with me coming in

[00:44:47] whenever I can like comfortably the next day like within reason like if I'm driving home from

[00:44:52] Pittsburgh like you know I safely within reason yeah um but he was like yeah yeah

[00:45:03] no like you know whenever you get in it like it's fine you can be a little late like it's cool

[00:45:07] so mind you like I was in there every fucking day at 11 like opening up cleaning the bathrooms

[00:45:13] cleaning everything so that everyone was happy right and I get up to Pittsburgh I missed the

[00:45:19] game entirely because I was late uh I mean you know of course but uh I missed the game

[00:45:25] and it's like you know what it's fine like all my fucking buddies are here I drove up

[00:45:29] to Pittsburgh like I'm gonna hang out with my friends like yeah I have the the pass for tomorrow

[00:45:35] to like come in a little late and it's all good so there was we went to a bar that had uh pictures

[00:45:43] of rum and coke for five dollars oh my god and I had like three or four of them and me and my

[00:45:48] friends are just you know loving life and enjoying being out with my buddies and I went outside

[00:45:55] to get some air because uh like my phone started ringing so I like went outside and I answered and

[00:46:00] it was my mentor and he said hey just because you're out drinking getting fucked up with your friends

[00:46:06] like don't think you don't gotta be there at 11 tomorrow and I was like oh like did you change

[00:46:13] your mind he was like yeah well I let you leave early today I was like no you didn't you made

[00:46:18] me like close up on time he was like oh well anyway make sure you're here so oh shit yeah and I'm like

[00:46:26] you know already entirely fucked up so I'm like okay like I really gotta get like my shit together

[00:46:32] so I like you know drank as many gallons of water as I could I was like eating fucking bread and

[00:46:38] greasy food I was like I mean anything a drunk motherfucker could try and do to sober up quickly

[00:46:45] we went back to my buddy's house and you know I slept it off and drove home the next day like

[00:46:49] severely hung over of course and um I had to leave like oh god I think it was before eight

[00:46:59] to be there on time so I like got to the shop and he showed up like an hour later and he was

[00:47:06] like oh shit what are you doing here and I was like what do you mean like you communicated

[00:47:12] that you wanted me here like I had to be here you made it sound like super fucking important

[00:47:17] and he was like yeah I was just fucking with you I figured you were drunk I figured it'd be funny

[00:47:22] and oh no like I could not fathom that like it was such a like slap in the face I was like I

[00:47:29] don't know man like I just that's certainly some hazing oh yeah as much as it like like

[00:47:37] I don't take any

[00:47:41] I don't know if I was not in a good place and like if I was not sober by then like I was hung over but

[00:47:48] like I lived and breathed for the fucking shop I wanted to do so much to like make the shop

[00:47:55] better I wanted it like I was coming in on like days off to paint random rooms that just

[00:48:00] because the client said it looked like kind of shitty like the pain was bad like I was ready to

[00:48:04] like come in all the time even spread thin as I was sleeping four hours a night like I was so ready to

[00:48:12] like make this place awesome and for him to say like hey like you know you might like get you might

[00:48:21] not want to come back if you don't come back tomorrow early I'm like oh fuck like I'm fired if

[00:48:27] I don't go back like if I was like actually drunk still like that would be such a dangerous

[00:48:32] position to drive back from fucking Pittsburgh just to try and not get fired you know I mean like

[00:48:38] hazing honestly like I don't give a fuck it's fine he told me all the time like he hated me I suck

[00:48:42] I'm the worst like I get it's cool like I don't really care I'm here to tattoo like I want to do

[00:48:48] this so like you can say any bullshit you want to me I get it it's cool but like the possibility

[00:48:54] of putting me in like that position having been drunk when I heard it I was like fuck I'm

[00:49:00] gonna get fired if I don't get there at 11 yeah yeah I was like it kind of tilted me

[00:49:05] there's a fine line with it because if it is

[00:49:13] if it prepares you for what you're what's ahead of you fine but if it doesn't

[00:49:20] like hazing in war times okay nobody's gonna give a shit who the fuck you are you're just a

[00:49:26] peon you're just a body that they're throwing into things you're a pawn for a bigger cause and

[00:49:32] I hope that you know that when you're signing up for like a militant kind of thing or going to war

[00:49:38] yeah but when you're teaching somebody that ultimately has to have balanced relationships

[00:49:47] with other people which you know again like you said his his relationship life was kind of rocky

[00:49:53] on his own um he was already struggling with his own balance issues but when it comes down to producing

[00:50:01] a person that uh is is going to allow a certain a level of abuse to happen to them perpetually

[00:50:11] like you're basically um creating like a little I forget the Stockholm person you know who's just

[00:50:19] there and who you know won't leave um in there and they're so used to the abuse you know and they're

[00:50:26] they like become this little Stockholm baby um that isn't good either like that's really bad and um yeah

[00:50:36] so I think that's that was that's tilting a little bit on that uh for me it's just being like

[00:50:42] and and same thing used to happen to me at certain times uh though I did uh did you ever

[00:50:49] confront him about that just curious I mean not the like yes but not in a way that he probably

[00:50:59] didn't care anyway like it was more in a way that like uh like hey that's not really cool like

[00:51:05] what if I was fucked up and he's like oh you were here anyway so like you're clearly not that

[00:51:09] fucked up like it yeah I don't know yeah I mean I will say this this is uh probably the female card

[00:51:18] that got me this was because the one time it really happened to me um it was involving another

[00:51:25] worker and uh my boss kind of piled on and uh he was like what you know why are you so affected

[00:51:33] and I got raging mad and I like um kind of I don't know if I cried then but I confronted him the next

[00:51:43] day because it wasn't stopping and they felt so justified to have that and I had it in my mind

[00:51:50] and our agreement was there was not going to be that kind of hazing it was not gonna happen

[00:51:57] so the moment that it started I was like well no no we're gonna confront this and I

[00:52:05] said like I really like I started crying and I think that kind of you know like I think men

[00:52:13] honestly like it's either you like watching a woman cry or you don't I think most men don't

[00:52:19] me most most sane men don't so I think when I start crying it it probably I mean I don't

[00:52:27] trigger like he probably realized that yeah it didn't earn me any like uh you know girl boss brownie

[00:52:34] points um but I couldn't emotionally take it and in my mind it was kind of like if this is

[00:52:39] gonna how it's gonna be then I'm gonna walk you know I'm not doing this like I was walking

[00:52:44] in there to lose my job that day because I knew I had to confront it but it didn't happen and he

[00:52:49] kind of tracked back after that like he said he kind of realizes like oh shit I kind of went too

[00:52:55] yeah he's like oh I fucked up like I like shit like that's gonna happen like it's not a perfect

[00:53:02] structure thing of like this is the exact increment of hazing that is necessary but not

[00:53:07] over like over what it should be like you know it's gonna happen but when it gets to that

[00:53:13] degree I think it's easier for people to lose sight of it when it's just in the moment little like

[00:53:17] beating a dead horse kind of thing like it's just like oh wait fuck we did make fun of

[00:53:24] real little too much or we did like make him do a little like shit that was a little fucked up but

[00:53:29] like I expected that like it's okay I expected like a really traditional apprenticeship so I

[00:53:36] like I was fine with it yeah in that moment that was the one where I was like dude if I was

[00:53:41] like drunk driving from Pittsburgh and got into a car you could have killed me yeah yeah

[00:53:46] but totally yeah but it wasn't yeah it wasn't that deep once I realized you know

[00:53:53] that he was just fucking with me but it makes you call us too yeah had I had I been in the

[00:53:59] position where I felt comfortable enough with knowing what he was going to react in certain

[00:54:04] ways like I think if I had a more because I could never tell when he was joking I could not then

[00:54:13] realize that he was just fucking with me because I was so used to like at his beckoning call I mean

[00:54:18] like hey pick this up hey go do this hey go do this like I was so ready to do whatever he asked

[00:54:25] because I at that point you're conditioned you're like if I don't do what he asked I'm

[00:54:29] fucking losing my job I'm out of here I don't get to be in this lovely industry that I have

[00:54:34] grown to like be fond of you know yeah so I was like fuck I have to like if there's no yeah yeah

[00:54:42] yeah it's very um it reminds me of the devil wears Prada you know a lot um have you seen that movie

[00:54:49] no okay I haven't I'm I'm familiar but I have not watched you should you'll know exactly

[00:54:57] you'll know exactly what I'm talking about when you when you watch it my brain amelie went

[00:55:01] banned yeah of course I know that metalcore bands well it's very it's very similar I know right

[00:55:07] I'm just yeah I'm just fucking with you um you'll you'll um you'll know because there there comes

[00:55:12] a point where the protagonist just realizes what she's sacrificing in order to for this job

[00:55:21] and like all these different people were like trying to like go hey hey you know like

[00:55:30] the fuck dude you're kind of being a shit right now but and and uh you know what she learned in this

[00:55:37] job was incredible and what she experienced was incredible and was rare and was everything but

[00:55:43] the abuse man of it um and there is a point where she just clicks and it's and it's very

[00:55:54] you know it's a it's a coming of age kind of uh story of like when you finally realize what you're

[00:56:00] about and what you're what you're what you're willing to tolerate and not tolerate and that's why

[00:56:06] I went you know when a lot of people like I had one guy come up to me when I was like 29 and uh

[00:56:12] we were all at a paradise event I'm not gonna shout him out I think I have before and he

[00:56:17] he looked at me and he compared me to Teresa Sharp and he and he was like how old are you and I was

[00:56:24] like 29 he's like will you better fucking get on it because she's like 21 and look at her look what

[00:56:30] she's doing wow and I was just like fuck off dude like I'm not trying to keep up with anyone

[00:56:38] like that's not that's not what I'm doing it's not what I'm doing here that's I'm kind of

[00:56:44] sad for you that that's how you see it um but you know I'm you know it's hard when you get to this

[00:56:52] business young because you don't necessarily know where you exist in the grand scheme of things or

[00:56:58] what your boundaries are and you end up learning them as you did in a lot of ways like in these

[00:57:04] very rough situations trial by fire and having to you know a lot of hearts break and a lot of

[00:57:11] lot of miscommunication happens and it does get a very emotional um and raw and and yeah you know

[00:57:19] I'm glad I came into it later really yeah yeah I I fully I don't know like I

[00:57:29] after everything though I still would not change a fucking thing oh no I am so like yeah

[00:57:36] and like you know any other sure than me though too

[00:57:41] thank you no seriously I I did think I'm just saying that like I you are very conscious um I do

[00:57:48] think that you um carry yourself well I I thought you were older as a tattoo artist I really did

[00:57:54] I think I thought you were older as a person too so yeah probably most people do yeah

[00:57:59] yeah usually it lasts as long as uh one of the other guys at rapture making like a 17-year-old

[00:58:07] joke I'm like all right okay now someone's gonna ask and then I'm gonna have to say like cool

[00:58:13] yeah but I um I think we're all on our own journey and I think that that's another big thing is

[00:58:19] like um you know comparison is the thief of joy you know you just don't you know like you said

[00:58:26] it was my story and I would never trade it yeah yeah I think like as um someone that came into this

[00:58:34] so young and like really is still I mean we're always learning but still finding what I enjoy

[00:58:42] and tattooing and finding you know everything like there's there's so much to soak up um

[00:58:49] I'm grateful that I could start this young I have so much more time to improve and so much more time

[00:58:57] like definitely not like uh scaling or like uh like comparing myself to anyone else but like

[00:59:05] being able to look at other people that are in tattooing and be like wow okay I love the way

[00:59:10] this person looks at this I like that's so sick and like finding inspiration from other people is

[00:59:14] so important and I have so much more time to find inspiration like I really am grateful that I have

[00:59:24] uh I don't know like I the the master craft idea like a master of this craft like I

[00:59:33] that's a goal that I think everyone has but I am fortunate that I have more time to try and

[00:59:39] work for it you know I mean like yeah yeah totally well um speaking of uh do you think that you would

[00:59:47] ever want to apprenticeship somebody or see yourself doing that I've thought about this so much and I

[00:59:54] like I of course knew you were gonna ask me just because you know it's the apprenticeship

[00:59:57] diaries like if I'm talking about how strange and crazy and weird mine was like of course

[01:00:03] you're gonna ask me this and it's I don't have a yes or no like I

[01:00:12] I think someone that is more mature would say when I'm ready and have acquired so so much

[01:00:22] knowledge to finally be able to like teach someone like I think someone less mature

[01:00:28] would say yes right away I I'm not sure like I do I think it needs more people in this industry no

[01:00:37] do if someone were to come to me and say I want to tattoo like I want you to teach me like

[01:00:46] I don't really give a fuck if you want to like I want to I want to see

[01:00:52] if someone can swallow their pride in the same way that I know like I had to like I literally I from

[01:01:02] day one I told my mentor that like I I want to like like treat me like like malleable clay and

[01:01:10] just be like like this is what you are going to do and I will adapt I will learn it's fine

[01:01:17] like I was the bottom of the totem pole not in the way of just an apprentice like I was told

[01:01:23] I think it was when I was like nine months into my apprenticeship he was like

[01:01:28] I don't care if we hire the most dog shit fucking piece of shit tattooer from who knows where that

[01:01:35] is like an asshole and like everyone hates he's still above an apprentice he is still

[01:01:42] above you and anything he said like that you got to do that shit like and that's just how it is

[01:01:48] like I want someone that to less a less harsh degree will realize that like this industry has

[01:01:57] so much to learn and it will be so much harder if you think you fucking know everything just

[01:02:02] because you already have prior experience like I would want someone that is ready and willing

[01:02:09] to learn but isn't willing to put their own experiences first and say oh I already know this

[01:02:15] oh I watch I've been tattooed like okay like we're all every tattoos is different man like

[01:02:21] it's not just about having seen tattoos or getting tattoos like

[01:02:26] it's such a bigger process than that and I think it really I would have to

[01:02:32] for me to find an apprentice I would have to have someone that is willing

[01:02:35] to learn in the way that I'm willing to teach yeah I'm sure it would probably happen very organically

[01:02:43] so I think your answer is honest as to how it'll probably go you know a lot of people are like

[01:02:48] well I offered to apprentice this person because I saw what I wanted to see and you know like what

[01:02:54] I needed to see in them and then offered it to them and that's how a lot of things go

[01:02:59] it'll have to be someone that like I see as a really great person before I see as an artist like

[01:03:07] I've talked to our lovely friend Jake about this at Rapture and he you know

[01:03:14] you can only teach someone so much in the like like how you tattoo

[01:03:21] you know you can't teach someone to just like people learn how to draw over time but

[01:03:26] like I want to apprentice someone that I know is going to be a good person in this industry

[01:03:32] not just oh they draw and they'll learn how to tattoo they will learn how to tattoo regardless

[01:03:38] eventually like if you put the proper time and like care into teaching them the the act of

[01:03:44] tattooing is not the difficult part it is figuring out how you fit into that little section

[01:03:51] and slice of tattooing yeah so I really like I would not look for someone I don't give a fuck if

[01:03:58] someone is the best artist around can draw circles around me like no that's not it like

[01:04:05] if someone is a amazing person but can only for some reason draw hyper realistic watermelon

[01:04:13] slices I'm gonna fucking apprentice that person because I'm like that's first of all it's

[01:04:17] quirky and fun second of like but if you're a great person and like you just you come into it

[01:04:24] knowing that you're like it's a great business card actually oh dude that'd be amazing yeah I'm

[01:04:29] writing that down for me yeah if you're listening anything watermelon slices if you're

[01:04:34] listening in the future uh you know that might be your credit your way in but um no yeah I

[01:04:41] I would want to find the right person to apprentice under me I'm not looking ever for that yeah

[01:04:50] yeah so a good person that makes sense because you know it again it's a suggestion of caring

[01:04:56] to what you know you found in this industry and what you would want that that person to

[01:05:01] equally understand and to have about it that kind of respect because like you started out with

[01:05:07] like I realized that I was aimless I realized that I didn't have a direction and I think you'd

[01:05:14] want somebody with that equal want to find a direction um you know through through a craft

[01:05:23] and be as malleable as you were at that point um it is a level of humility that's really important

[01:05:30] yeah yeah that's cool uh who do you look up to oh god

[01:05:37] um that's such a hard like question there's so many layers to who I look up to though like

[01:05:46] um I mean I of course like I have our friends Jake and Brea who are you know amazing people but

[01:05:56] you know amazing artists like outside of just tattooing like they inspire me even just the

[01:06:01] way you know if I sit there for five minutes talking to Brea while she's tattooing she just like

[01:06:06] is tattooing circles around everybody like it's ridiculous so you know she inspires me in ways that

[01:06:13] like uh even just like the way she handles scheduling and just like yeah like I tattooed

[01:06:18] what I want to tattoo like I can't do that right now I for some reason like in my head I just

[01:06:24] I can't bring myself to do that but I respect her so much for that it's amazing like

[01:06:30] uh I would be so happy to you know fill my schedule with things I only want to do but I also look

[01:06:37] up to Jake in the way that he schedules and he's you know he'll take on pretty much anything like

[01:06:43] I don't want to say anything but you know if there's it doesn't matter if it's a style that he

[01:06:48] you know doesn't do every day he's ready to like yeah that that'll be fun I'll tackle it

[01:06:53] you know I mean like we'll try it right um part of me loves that because like there's I don't

[01:06:59] ever want to get to a point where there's a client that comes in that I would get along with

[01:07:03] so well but because it's not like illustrative Japanese like oh fuck uh I guess I can't take you

[01:07:10] man you know like right I go back and forth in so many ways but I mean that's just like

[01:07:15] inspiration even just for scheduling like I I don't know I'm inspired by I think you said it

[01:07:24] I mean and in a lot of ways I think that we don't realize how much uh uh the essential quality of us

[01:07:32] being around allows for another person for that you know like yeah because you know Bree's surrounded

[01:07:40] by people who you know for better or for worse or whatever their their reasons are are willing to

[01:07:46] take on things like that it gives her that much more permission to just um you know quantify it

[01:07:53] one way she was in a different shop that might not even be an option that's given to her

[01:07:57] you know like that that that might be saying well we don't we don't do that here

[01:08:02] you know and then she's a choice to make a between whether or not she stays or goes I mean that's

[01:08:06] that's all business and stuff like that but I do think that Ecos is work because we're all

[01:08:10] different and we're all willing to take on different modalities and facets but having

[01:08:16] that respect and understanding and and and being surrounded by really cool people that operate on

[01:08:23] different levels is is I mean that's why I visit you guys it's very evocative and inspiring

[01:08:30] I think I find inspiration such a hard word sometimes too for me to like kind of

[01:08:40] I'm inspired by people that I respect and seeing how they do things so it's not even necessarily

[01:08:45] I could list off so many different fucking names right now of like you know I watched

[01:08:51] Akira for the first time not that long ago and I fucking loved it it was amazing

[01:08:57] like I was obsessed with it for like two weeks I was like drawing nothing but Akira flash

[01:09:02] like I was you know like I scroll through Instagram every day and you see these amazing

[01:09:07] people that like I don't even fucking follow it comes up and it's just like whoa

[01:09:12] that's fucking sick I don't know who it is like this person inspires me and I don't even know

[01:09:17] who like I know their Instagram handle I don't know what they thought their favorite color or

[01:09:20] their fucking favorite coffee order is like inspiration such a strange thing yeah but um

[01:09:28] I really can't like it's too much yeah it's too much like even you know shows movies I'm

[01:09:35] reading Bazaarq right now and like that's fucking crazy like there's so many little

[01:09:40] influences that I have right now I can't narrow it down well no I think that's honest too I mean

[01:09:47] you might be in a very big absorption phase um yeah you know I mean when I about your timeline was

[01:09:55] when tattoo society came out you had all these different people that were like alone when things

[01:10:01] up and you know like Joshua Carlton I was like wow you could do that with a tattoo like

[01:10:09] there's so many people that just like you know and and like you're you know saying like animation

[01:10:16] film all these different things and that is a part of our world now more than anything it's spanned

[01:10:21] beyond just tattooing in a creative way because now we have social media and now

[01:10:26] we take reels and there's a whole level of video editing and things like that and you're

[01:10:32] we're able to look at creativity in that way in a much more expansive way but it does make it very

[01:10:41] paralyzing when you have to suss out just a few names so I get that I think I think the reason

[01:10:48] I have a problem with like thinking of all these names of tattooers is it like I think I am in

[01:10:54] that absorption like uh it's it's less like seeing all these tattooers that like oh look at the tattoo

[01:11:02] they do like I'm not transfixed necessarily uh I'm not transfixed in like oh whoa how does

[01:11:09] this person make a tattoo like that right now I'm like transfixed by um like paintings that are

[01:11:17] like I'm not good at painting I for some reason like I can sit there for like 12 hours straight

[01:11:22] in tattoo and like obviously I'll be real fucking sore but like I've done like 11 12 hour sessions

[01:11:28] I'm like fuck yeah I had the patience to like get through it and crush that shit and then

[01:11:34] I'll sit down to paint I'll make it like two hours I'm like god I don't want to spend any

[01:11:37] more time on this you know but like I'm having a lot of love for absorbing art from other aspects

[01:11:47] of life and I think it kind of uh it's like my inner child like I started drawing because of art on

[01:11:57] yugioh cards oh cool yeah it is so random but yeah I I saw yugioh cards and I was like well this is

[01:12:03] cool art like fucking dragons and shit like that I was like yeah of course I'm gonna draw that um

[01:12:08] and it's segwayed into like well I like this creature or character but like what if I do it like

[01:12:13] my own way and that of course turns into like I'm gonna just draw a dragon like I I've drawn

[01:12:20] I've copied and traced dragons enough that like I know basic structure right I'll just draw one so

[01:12:26] but like I've in the way that you're a kid drawing which of course like

[01:12:33] that's where we started like I in the way of like a kid drawing you don't know a lot you're

[01:12:37] finding outside influence from things like yeah I I think that is when you're most creative is when

[01:12:44] you're successful not susceptible but like um influenced yeah you're you're ready to be

[01:12:53] influenced you're not like turning that off when you're ready to just like watch and learn and

[01:12:58] take anything from anything like just like I don't give a fuck if I'm watching like an interview

[01:13:05] with I don't know some person like personality if like they say something funny that I'm like oh that

[01:13:10] be that'd be a great little banger like tattoo on a sheet or something like right there's so much

[01:13:15] around us and I think it's foolish to not um use that as inspiration we get so caught up in our

[01:13:22] like own little shit like I would even just uh we've talked about this like getting the magic

[01:13:28] gathering like there's so many people that do amazing paintings for that like I fucking hate

[01:13:34] painting but I'm like mesmerized by the paintings that people do for these little fucking cards and

[01:13:39] like it's so cool like it is so cool I love it like yeah I never want to get to a point

[01:13:46] where I'm turning off that like inspiration from outside sources I never want to let my creative

[01:13:53] well run dry just because I'm not um taking in outside inspiration I don't think you will

[01:14:00] I don't think you will um because you know uh you like to play I think I've always kind of

[01:14:06] noted that about you you still play you know you still play magic you still you know do things

[01:14:12] like that um you like having the conversations and diving deep I don't see you stopping

[01:14:19] because I think it's what energizes you is is that investment and learning and grinding and

[01:14:25] just being a part of it so I definitely see that about you I don't I don't think you're gonna lose

[01:14:30] that but I fucking know I don't know I don't think you will yeah I don't think you will I love it

[01:14:36] though yeah yeah is there anything that we didn't go into oh man uh not that I can think of um

[01:14:51] I'm trying to think it's so hard like we've we're like rehashing so much about my apprenticeship I

[01:14:59] I don't know yeah okay I have to pee one more time so I'm gonna I'm gonna note this and then

[01:15:05] I'm gonna have you tell people where they can find you give me one second

[01:15:13] thank you gosh

[01:15:19] so silly so I'm down my leg I was like I want coffee and I'm like in my head I was like

[01:15:27] should I do doing this before I don't want to I was about to start uh coffee like making coffee

[01:15:35] and I was like oh fuck it's like 155 so I jumped on real quick and I was like I was like thinking I

[01:15:40] was just like god coffee would be so good right now um and it is what you're talking about oh yeah

[01:15:47] no when you were like um when you're like oh can we take a quick break to pee I was like yes

[01:15:52] thank god I can go get coffee yeah I of course wanted to like respect your time though we were

[01:15:58] starting at two I'm not gonna be late to that shit well and I I appreciate that I mean obviously you've

[01:16:05] shown you've been vetted in your ability to come all the way from Pittsburgh to get to where you

[01:16:11] got to be on time I don't know about vetted but I do have a uh I unfortunately my uh track record

[01:16:20] of being on time to everything has drastically uh decreased or changed I guess with uh my lovely

[01:16:28] pregnant girlfriend Adrienne yeah different rules for different times of life you know like

[01:16:35] and you know everywhere you have had the grace of uh being uh understanding when other people's

[01:16:44] life circumstances have called them or made them act a certain way so now's your time it's just it

[01:16:51] yeah taken up the space yeah yeah sometimes you just gotta have that happen and that's that's

[01:16:57] that's important man it's it's a very healing thing and I recommend people uh at least if you

[01:17:03] get into a certain rhythm uh stop it long enough to kind of ask are am I doing this because

[01:17:10] it really works for me or am I doing it just because this is where I've always known it to be done

[01:17:15] and that's yeah you know like there's so definitely you know like those little

[01:17:20] wrenches and things that life gives us that we have to like stop and reorganize really really good

[01:17:26] in the grand scheme of things I do think better person better artist everything so plus you're

[01:17:32] gonna have a human at the end of this so this is pretty cool I love it yeah yeah I know I'm

[01:17:38] excited for you it's a it's a really cool thing and again I don't think that um whether it's art or not

[01:17:46] you are participating in a creation with another person that um is going to yield a lot of

[01:17:54] vast fun creative and mentor based uh experiences so yeah yeah I'm very excited for you very very

[01:18:05] excited thanks for it of course where can people find you and how should they best get in touch

[01:18:13] yeah I am of course at rapture tattoo emporium um but on instagram I'm underscore josh hoffman tattoo

[01:18:22] and then my email uh I only scheduled through email but this is josh hoffman tattoos at gmail.com

[01:18:29] fantastic fantastic awesome man well is there yes anything closing that you really want I guess uh

[01:18:43] people to know before they get into this like I guess a shouting advice that you can give

[01:18:52] I truly like whether you are listening as someone that wants to tattoo hasn't found an apprenticeship or

[01:19:00] you know whether you're fucking 10 years in and you know reaching a plateau or something that you're

[01:19:05] just not like you're feeling stagnant like whatever it is like we get to where we're going when we

[01:19:10] get there like it's it's not something that we can rush like you know I'm still very new this

[01:19:16] industry obviously like my experience is vastly different than other peoples but um I want to

[01:19:22] validate you and they're like you know regardless of where you're at like you'll fucking get there

[01:19:27] fuck it get to it I like it I like it like give yourself the journey and just do it yeah

[01:19:33] enjoy it like soak up the little fucking things like um I don't know the little memories that you

[01:19:39] make along the way and just having fun like not taking yourself too seriously but still

[01:19:45] respecting yourself it's not easy but there's a balance there that like really fucking pays off

[01:19:52] if you listen this long this long thank you for listening to our ramblings for so

[01:19:58] I was just gonna say that this is just one diary entry with you Josh you are relatively new and

[01:20:03] to that vein to that point I hope to have you on again you know if we did miss something

[01:20:08] if in hearing this you're like oh man there's something else I wanted to say you're my friend

[01:20:13] so we'll have you back and I'm sure you'll have more to say yeah I'm always down I mean there might be

[01:20:19] a couple more breaks with you know a newborn crying or something but it'll buff out right yeah I mean

[01:20:25] it'll make it more it'll it'll give us atmosphere and all of that it'll be great yeah it's it's

[01:20:31] all what we all have to deal with in some way I'm open to it yeah yeah well thank you yeah of

[01:20:38] course friend I'll let you on for the rest of your day and uh get some food in us and all that good

[01:20:44] stuff I'm sure you have lots to do oh yeah honestly all right well bless you my friend it was so good

[01:20:53] speaking with you of course thanks friend yes I'll see you later bye thanks for listening

[01:21:02] you can find the apprenticeship diaries on twitter facebook and instagram our ig is the

[01:21:07] underscore apprenticeship underscore diaries if you would like to offer constructive criticism

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[01:21:37] so