Ep. 223 "How Well Can You Drive?" (Diary Entry 1:2 with Jake Meeks)

[00:00:00] Happy Tuesday, Diary listeners! I'm here and I'm very excited to have the first part of my time with Jake Meeks of Fireside Tattoo Network. And based on what we talked about in this first piece of his diary entry, I am calling this How Well Can You Drive? And you'll see why. Enjoy listeners.

[00:00:31] Welcome to the Apprenticeship Diaries, where raw meets refined. Let's be real, we're still working on refined. What it took, what it takes, and the stories that are made. Join us as we learn from professionals about how their stories begin. It's your story, so it should be really easy. Exactly. And we're both used to talking in the microphones, so we shouldn't have any trouble. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, hopefully. I mean, my podcast is very raw.

[00:01:05] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, welcome. I'm here today with Jake Meeks. I wanted to introduce you because this is audio only. So, Jake Meeks of Fireside Tattoo Network. Hello. Yeah. Hey, thanks for having me. Of course. I'm very excited because we met on the back end and I was like, hey, have you told your background, your learning journey on your podcast? And I'm shocked that you haven't.

[00:01:32] I don't think I have. I don't think I have. I don't think I have. No. I mean, bits and pieces, but I've never just gone through. You know, I've never made episodes about myself. They've always been about my guests, you know. So, I share my experiences, but usually in relationship to someone else's story, you know.

[00:01:47] Yeah. Yeah. No, that's great. I'm excited because now I get the scoop. Yeah, right. How long have you been tattooing, my friend?

[00:01:57] Oh, I started in May of 1996. So, it was 28 years this past May. Wow. Time flies.

[00:02:09] Heck yeah, man. What was the landscape then? Like, just as a paint a picture kind of deal?

[00:02:16] Yeah, not similar at all to this. It was exactly what you kind of always, you know, what you hear of tattooing in the old days. Where I started was a full on biker shop.

[00:02:29] You know, a lot of, you know, I don't know, hard people, drug use, a lot of drinking in the shop, a lot of snakes.

[00:02:42] You walked into the front, you know, you walked into the lobby and it was just like aquariums full of snakes and lizards.

[00:02:48] The people were constantly, like, getting out and just holding in the, you know, like, in the lobby.

[00:02:53] And I was like, is the health department cool with this? Can we do this?

[00:02:57] Yeah, it was a different, you know, a different time altogether.

[00:03:03] There were no, I didn't know anyone who could draw.

[00:03:07] That's really one of the reasons I thought if I got into it, I was like, oh, I'll be like, I'll kick ass at this because I can draw better than all these people.

[00:03:13] So, but it turned out not to be the case at all. But that was my naive mindset, you know, getting my first tattoo and seeing the people that were working and doing tattoos, you know, using flash and even like poorly tattooing flash, like destroying decent flash.

[00:03:28] And I remember thinking like I was, you know, 18, 19 years old getting my first tattoo.

[00:03:33] And I thought, oh, man, I will. I would run this show if you give me six months to learn how to run that tattoo machine.

[00:03:38] Like, I could do this. But, you know, then you get into it. And of course, there were great artists. Guy Interest has been tattooing a lot longer than me.

[00:03:45] And, you know, there were a bunch of, you know, guy B-Drawn and, you know, Dirk Morrison was tattooing before me.

[00:03:51] There are a bunch of people who are still relevant now. Bob Tyrell, I think, was before me.

[00:03:55] So there is I just didn't know any of those people. I just like I just saw people at the local shop and was like, oh, these guys can't draw.

[00:04:01] So I should give you a shot. Before we start recording, I asked you where you were.

[00:04:06] You're out of Memphis, Tennessee. So what was was there a lot of tattoo shops in that area?

[00:04:16] No, not really. We have one one guy that a lot of people who've been around for a long time nationally would know named Billy Naylor.

[00:04:23] And he owned I don't know if there were 12 shops, 10 shops in the city.

[00:04:28] He probably owned seven of them and they would open and close and they would reopen under a different name.

[00:04:34] And they would, you know, and they were kind of in, you know, rougher areas, a lot of them.

[00:04:39] And he just he even tried to he hosted a convention probably in 97, 98 here.

[00:04:46] And it was the only convention that I remember being hosted in Memphis for decades.

[00:04:51] Wow. Yeah. We just had one that that Jake and Jess Ferris, the do the Explorer Conference and all that.

[00:04:58] They just hosted one here last spring. But before that, it had been decades, I think, since there had been a show here.

[00:05:03] But yeah, it wasn't there. There wasn't a lot of competition, not a lot of shops.

[00:05:07] There are a handful that had just been around for a long time and no real art focused shops until a shop called Underground Art came along.

[00:05:18] And I tattooed an underground art for 15 years.

[00:05:21] They they opened just before I started tattooing and they were the first kind of custom shop.

[00:05:27] They were doing conventions before anyone else.

[00:05:29] I had ever I'd never heard of tattoo conventions and they were traveling and doing the five national shows each year.

[00:05:35] And and they were having guest artists come through. And of course, that was unheard of at that time, too.

[00:05:40] And so when they hired me after some years of tattooing at a street shop, it felt like I was drafted into the NBA.

[00:05:46] You know, I was like, oh, I hit the big time. This is awesome.

[00:05:50] That's awesome. I was I'm getting back the.

[00:05:57] So you were looking at getting tattooed as you were getting tattooed and going, wow, I could do this.

[00:06:02] What was, you know, what was the lead up before that?

[00:06:07] Like, what was your your life before?

[00:06:09] I drew I was so I was just the best like artist in my class in high school.

[00:06:16] You know, like I if there was a thing to be like painting the school mascot on the gym wall.

[00:06:22] Then I got the job, you know, so I could just draw better than everyone else at high school.

[00:06:27] But it wasn't like I wasn't good. You know, I didn't have any real training.

[00:06:31] I had an art teacher in high school that that really took to me.

[00:06:35] She was great. Her name is Miss Nikes. And she was she I lived in the art room.

[00:06:40] I went to a Catholic school and she was very she was great about just like finding things for me to do to be in the art room instead of whatever class I was supposed to be in.

[00:06:51] And so like and I wasn't a good student. And so she would like I would help her with projects, you know, for other classes.

[00:06:58] If I was in art three or art four, I would help her with the art one classes.

[00:07:01] And so she just had been there so long that she kind of kept me in the art room.

[00:07:04] She entered my drawings in scholastic competitions.

[00:07:07] She encouraged me to do like summer art camps and things like that.

[00:07:11] But I ended up going to Memphis College of Art, which is a private art school here in town.

[00:07:16] And she had me go into there like entering their their scholastic like high school competitions that they would host there.

[00:07:23] So I got you, you know, I wasn't good, but I got like a feel for being a part of the art world at a young age.

[00:07:30] And then I ended up going to Memphis College of Art as a painting major.

[00:07:33] OK, OK. Did you did you graduate?

[00:07:37] No, tattooing took over. I made it three years.

[00:07:40] And same. Really?

[00:07:42] Yeah, I dropped out after three. My parents are so pissed.

[00:07:45] They were like, yeah, I was there.

[00:07:47] Yeah. Yeah. Same here.

[00:07:49] Tattooing had started picking up enough that I was like drawing more and more for tattoos.

[00:07:52] And I was I just didn't see where the art degree was going to lead.

[00:07:58] You know, I just couldn't figure out what I was going to do with it.

[00:08:00] I thought originally I might do.

[00:08:02] I would tattoo until I got an illustration gig or a graphic design gig.

[00:08:06] But a lot of my teachers in graphic design and illustration, they worked for local agencies.

[00:08:12] And so we would do like, you know, field trips to see their their studios and where they're working.

[00:08:17] And none of it was it looked like an insurance office.

[00:08:20] I would go in. I'd be like, I want to work here.

[00:08:22] Yeah.

[00:08:22] Like people are in cubicles.

[00:08:23] Nobody's doing anything.

[00:08:24] You know, nobody was doing anything that looks cool to me.

[00:08:26] They were working in the earliest versions of like Photoshop and Illustrator, I guess, or Quark Express or one of the old those old kind of design programs.

[00:08:35] But they didn't look like you're looking at their screens and it looked like they were just working on computers.

[00:08:39] It didn't look cool.

[00:08:40] Yeah.

[00:08:41] So I was like, I don't want to do this.

[00:08:43] I've even heard from somebody who does a lot of the the the character designs and stuff for like Rick and Morty and stuff like that, like an animation process.

[00:08:53] And she said, it's not as glamorous as you think, man.

[00:08:57] Like we don't get invited to the parties.

[00:08:59] We're like the grunts, man.

[00:09:01] Like the production team.

[00:09:02] Like that's that's who is the like elite people and stuff.

[00:09:06] Yeah.

[00:09:06] She's like, we're just a little art nerds that get walled in to these office spaces.

[00:09:14] Yeah.

[00:09:15] Yeah.

[00:09:15] Yeah.

[00:09:15] It makes makes me think of we went when my wife and I first started dating in the later 90s, 98, 99.

[00:09:20] We went to Disney World with with her family.

[00:09:25] And we went to what this was MGM.

[00:09:28] I forget.

[00:09:28] But when you could do like the artist tour, you could go and watch all of the animators work.

[00:09:32] But you're looking through a glass down and they're in rooms.

[00:09:34] And it looked so that did look cool.

[00:09:36] I was like, they had like cells.

[00:09:38] They were still hand drawing, you know, the cells and doing overlays and everything.

[00:09:41] And these big, long art tables.

[00:09:42] And I was just like, oh, my God, I want to be a Disney artist.

[00:09:45] That looks freaking awesome.

[00:09:46] But the person who was doing the tour for us was like, I've been drawing Aladdin or one character from Aladdin for like three straight years.

[00:09:55] And I'm like fourth in line to actually draw Aladdin.

[00:09:59] If we do another like there's there's no chance.

[00:10:02] It would take a perfect storm of unfortunate events for me to end up as the person drawing this character.

[00:10:08] But you're so locked into Disney at that point, too.

[00:10:12] My mom was really pressuring me to like she's like, you should work for Disney.

[00:10:15] And I was like with you.

[00:10:17] I was like when I got into illustration, because that's what I studied in college.

[00:10:23] I realized that you had to fall in love with your characters and you had to be willing to draw them a lot.

[00:10:30] And I was a I was a one act, you know, person.

[00:10:35] I was like, I just want to do one piece and be done.

[00:10:37] And so I was like, this is probably not for me.

[00:10:40] Yeah.

[00:10:41] Yeah.

[00:10:41] That's when you think of it that way, like, oh, man, drawing a character for so long and really being a great chance that you will never actually see your character on screen or never get credit for it.

[00:10:53] It's like someone else's version of that character anyways that you're like mimicking or something, you know, so.

[00:10:58] Yeah.

[00:10:58] Yeah.

[00:10:59] Yeah.

[00:10:59] No, that's a that's a good perspective.

[00:11:03] Honestly, give people a lot of background on that.

[00:11:05] And it's, you know, it's good because it's highly competitive.

[00:11:07] And so, you know, that's that's what it takes to be in those kind of competitive situations like that.

[00:11:13] So you just got to really want it.

[00:11:16] Right.

[00:11:16] What did it look like when you like did you ask for an apprenticeship?

[00:11:21] Were you offered one?

[00:11:22] I asked.

[00:11:23] I well, in a roundabout way, I went to this shop that I ended up apprenticing at.

[00:11:29] It was called Dragon Master.

[00:11:30] And it was at the like, you know, I guess most cities have like a car dealership row, like, you know,

[00:11:36] where you just like drive down the street and it's like 100 car dealerships down the street.

[00:11:39] I don't know if that's true, but we have.

[00:11:41] I live on one.

[00:11:42] Oh, do you?

[00:11:42] Okay.

[00:11:44] So this tattoo shop is like tucked in between 25 car dealerships and in a little strip shop center.

[00:11:50] And they're like next to a Mexican restaurant and a little bar.

[00:11:53] The bar is actually still there called Partners.

[00:11:56] But nothing else from there is still around from 1996.

[00:12:00] And I went with a girl I was dating at the time and her best friend and they were her best friend

[00:12:06] was getting her eyebrow pierced.

[00:12:08] And while we were waiting to get the eyebrow, her eyebrow pierced, I was just talking to what

[00:12:13] I thought was the front desk person about tattooing.

[00:12:16] And I was like, yeah, I've been interested in that.

[00:12:17] It's got my first tattoo recently.

[00:12:19] And I've been thinking about doing it.

[00:12:20] And it turns out he was the owner.

[00:12:21] And he was like, we're looking for apprentices.

[00:12:25] If you can come back in like Monday before we open, I'll put you through the test.

[00:12:31] And I was like, the test?

[00:12:32] He's like, yeah.

[00:12:34] Right.

[00:12:34] Yeah.

[00:12:35] And so that was it.

[00:12:36] It was like, I just kind of expressed interest.

[00:12:38] And he was like, well, you know, can you draw?

[00:12:39] I'm like, yeah.

[00:12:40] And he's like, well, come in on Monday.

[00:12:41] And so I came in and he had me draw a winking skull.

[00:12:46] And his like, his, his thought was like, if you can forget exactly how he described it.

[00:12:52] He's like, but if you can make a skull look like it's winking, like you can take bone and

[00:12:56] give it like animated and make it look believable, then you can draw anything.

[00:12:59] I'm like, really?

[00:13:01] All right.

[00:13:02] I don't know if I agree with that, but sure.

[00:13:05] So I sat down with like a piece of printer paper and a number two pencil.

[00:13:11] I drew a winking skull and I drew like a scar through it.

[00:13:13] I put a bandana on it.

[00:13:15] I did every, I tricked it out in every way that I thought this dude would love.

[00:13:18] And he did.

[00:13:18] It worked, man.

[00:13:19] He was like showing, he was taking around the shop, showing it to people.

[00:13:22] And, uh, and so he was like, oh yeah, you start this week.

[00:13:26] And, uh, and so I did, I didn't get much out of it.

[00:13:29] I was really, um, we, we ran a shuttle, uh, which was a Mitsubishi eclipse, uh, to the Navy

[00:13:38] base, which is about 30, 45 minutes away and back.

[00:13:40] So he would like, someone would go pick up a bunch of Navy kids and then bring them back

[00:13:46] to the shop.

[00:13:47] And they would like drink it partners at the bar next door until it was time for them to

[00:13:50] get tattooed.

[00:13:51] And they put me driving that shuttle.

[00:13:54] So my apprenticeship, what really had very little to do with like tattooing for the first,

[00:13:59] at least three months, I was just driving that stupid Mitsubishi eclipse 30 minutes,

[00:14:03] like an hour back and forth.

[00:14:05] Oh, you know, three or four times a day.

[00:14:07] And, um, so that kind of sucked, you know, I didn't really learn anything about tattooing,

[00:14:11] but that was the start to the apprenticeship.

[00:14:13] My graduation from that was the shop manager.

[00:14:15] His name was Mr.

[00:14:16] Bill.

[00:14:16] He tattooed with his tongue out of the side of his mouth.

[00:14:18] He's a big, big guy.

[00:14:19] He kind of looked like a captain Lou Albano, if you get for any wrestling fans, like, and,

[00:14:24] uh, he, um, he, you would wipe for him.

[00:14:28] They'd be like, all right, you're wiping for Mr.

[00:14:30] Bill today.

[00:14:30] So if you can imagine as a tattooer, like you're tattooing and you're depending on someone else

[00:14:35] to wipe in between, like, I can't think of a more annoying, like, like some apprentice

[00:14:42] in my way trying to wipe the ink or blood off of the tattoo, but that's how they kind of

[00:14:46] taught and you would wipe for Mr.

[00:14:48] Bill.

[00:14:48] And, um, and so I graduated to wiping for Mr.

[00:14:51] Bill a little bit.

[00:14:53] And then, um, and then for the most part ended up doing like making slight changes to flash,

[00:14:58] you know, I would meet with, I did learn to meet with customers cause there was nothing

[00:15:02] custom there.

[00:15:02] So it was like, you would change the name and a banner or you would like switch out a roaring

[00:15:07] lion for a still lion and a Leo photo.

[00:15:11] Oh, there's flash.

[00:15:12] So you were, you're basically just, you know, tracing different pieces of flash together,

[00:15:15] or maybe, you know, doing some drawing, but not a lot.

[00:15:19] Um, but that was kind of the evolution of it.

[00:15:21] I never really went to tattoo there.

[00:15:24] It's a kind of weird test for something that was so not needing of those skills, you know?

[00:15:32] Yeah.

[00:15:32] He should have taken you out and been like, let me drive with you for like a half hour.

[00:15:36] Yeah, exactly.

[00:15:37] Let's see.

[00:15:37] Do you use a turn signal?

[00:15:38] Well, yeah, you know about the Navy.

[00:15:41] Right.

[00:15:41] Yeah.

[00:15:42] That would have been a much better test for what I actually meant to do.

[00:15:45] Do you have any specialty coins while you're in that kind of position?

[00:15:48] Right.

[00:15:49] Yeah.

[00:15:50] Like, what?

[00:15:51] That's hilarious.

[00:15:52] Yeah.

[00:15:54] Well, um, so did you, okay.

[00:15:59] So what happened?

[00:16:01] So what happened after that?

[00:16:03] Like if.

[00:16:04] I didn't make it, um, I made it, I got an apprenticeship license.

[00:16:08] Um, and in Tennessee, you have to tattoo under a licensed artist for a year to get an artist

[00:16:13] license.

[00:16:14] I didn't make it a year there.

[00:16:15] Um, because it was just, um, I was, wasn't getting much out of it.

[00:16:19] I was working a regular job during the day at that point, construction, and then doing

[00:16:23] that at night.

[00:16:23] And it was a lot.

[00:16:25] And, um, and so I, um, I ended up saving up some money.

[00:16:29] I learned kind of the basics.

[00:16:31] I saved up some money and I bought a used autoclave and I just started tattooing out

[00:16:35] of my house.

[00:16:36] Uh, and so I did that.

[00:16:38] I don't know, probably two years.

[00:16:41] I would think, um, I had just an extra room in my house.

[00:16:45] It was all linoleum and wood paneling walls.

[00:16:47] It was fairly like, you know, it was as sterile as a room could be, I guess, at your house.

[00:16:51] And, uh, and so I would, I, I, um, I never had like an ultrasonic or anything like

[00:16:56] that.

[00:16:57] I just had an autoclave, so I would like scrub needles, you know, really well.

[00:17:01] And, uh, um, and tubes and, uh, you know, and, uh, it was before there was nothing disposable.

[00:17:08] Obviously at that point, it was all, you know, stainless steel.

[00:17:11] And, um, yeah, just kind of like figured it out as I went, I got real lucky.

[00:17:14] I started the advice I always give to people that want to get into tattooing is to get

[00:17:18] tattooed by the people that you look up to.

[00:17:20] I started getting tattooed by my favorite artists at underground art, the shop that I mentioned

[00:17:24] earlier, that was the custom shop.

[00:17:26] And, uh, his name was David Evans.

[00:17:28] And if you watch any early fired side stuff, he was my co-host for the first hundred episodes.

[00:17:32] So I reached out to him and started, he started a half sleeve on me and I told him I was tattooing

[00:17:38] out of my house.

[00:17:39] And, um, and I was, he would let me bring photos in and I'd be like, what happened here?

[00:17:44] You know, why didn't this work?

[00:17:45] Or why is that like, is that going to heal?

[00:17:46] Okay.

[00:17:47] Or, and he was great.

[00:17:48] I mean, you know, these are like, these aren't great photos.

[00:17:50] It's not like camera photos today.

[00:17:52] It's like the best I could do at the time.

[00:17:54] And, um, you know, my machine would fall out of tune.

[00:17:57] I wouldn't know what to do with it.

[00:17:58] Um, you know, and he would try to help me tune it or at least show me how it, you know,

[00:18:02] what to like an order of operations.

[00:18:04] If it starts missing or where he's like, well, it'll build up carbon here on this point.

[00:18:06] Just take us, like, take this little piece of sandpaper with you and do this.

[00:18:09] So he was just super helpful.

[00:18:10] He's just a great dude.

[00:18:12] And so he helped me a lot and I, and, um, and didn't really complain too much.

[00:18:17] I told him that I had an autoclave and then I was trying to be, you know, uh, as sterile

[00:18:21] as I could be.

[00:18:22] And, uh, and so a year or so went by and I tell you, he tattooed me and we got along

[00:18:28] well.

[00:18:29] And then one day there was a like message on my answering machine from Angela, the woman

[00:18:32] who owns the owns underground art still today.

[00:18:35] And she was like, Hey, we just had an opening come up.

[00:18:38] Would you have any interest in coming down and applying for it?

[00:18:40] And so I was like, yeah, so I like brought, got all my stuff came down.

[00:18:45] And, um, essentially they looked at my tattoos and were like, you're really just going to

[00:18:49] have to do another apprenticeship.

[00:18:50] We won't call it an apprenticeship because you've already been through it, but like, you're

[00:18:53] just going to have to do this all again.

[00:18:54] I was like, yeah, that's cool.

[00:18:56] I'm good.

[00:18:56] So, so same.

[00:18:58] I mean, I, it's not, not the same, but I did too as well.

[00:19:04] So what was it, what was involved in your second one?

[00:19:07] It was a lot better.

[00:19:08] It was more like, um, apprenticeship by committee a little more.

[00:19:13] So there were some, there was some solid artists there, people who could draw and people

[00:19:17] who like loved to draw.

[00:19:18] That was the thing at the first shop.

[00:19:20] It was a job for people.

[00:19:21] Like they did, you know, you know, pick flash off the walls and some of them could tattoo

[00:19:26] it.

[00:19:26] Okay.

[00:19:26] But you didn't see people like sitting around with sketchbooks all that much.

[00:19:30] And underground was different.

[00:19:31] It like the drawing room was always being used because people were always drawing.

[00:19:35] And so it was like, they would finish a tattoo, go straight back to the back room and start

[00:19:39] drawing something else.

[00:19:40] And so just being immersed in that was really helpful.

[00:19:43] And, um, you know, I, I like everybody.

[00:19:46] I think that I, I came in feeling like I should know more than I do.

[00:19:50] Cause I came in as like a licensed artist.

[00:19:52] I already been through an apprenticeship.

[00:19:53] I had a bunch of tattoos under my belt that I've been doing for my house.

[00:19:56] And so I wanted to come in and then be like, Oh, Jake's going to be a good contributor

[00:20:00] to the, uh, to, uh, to our environment.

[00:20:01] He's going to be, but I wasn't, you know, I wasn't good, but I didn't want to, you don't

[00:20:05] know what you don't know, but you're afraid to like speak up about it.

[00:20:09] So when things weren't going right for me, I wasn't, I think that people would have been

[00:20:13] over backwards to help me, but I just had this like attitude where I would like, I was

[00:20:17] like, I should already know this.

[00:20:18] I don't want to ask, you know?

[00:20:20] And so I, I shot myself in the foot for a long time by like, uh, pretending that I

[00:20:25] was, you know, that I knew what I was doing when I, when I didn't.

[00:20:29] Um, but even still, I got, I got a lot of help, you know, um, they would be great about,

[00:20:34] you know, I would try a style, you know, um, I remember doing my first portrait, um, of

[00:20:40] someone's daughter and it was so it was terrible.

[00:20:43] And, um, uh, and so the portrait goes out the door, the person's fine with it.

[00:20:47] You know, there was nothing to compare it to back in that day.

[00:20:49] They thought it was great.

[00:20:50] And, um, at the end of the night, Angela, who owns the shop, who doesn't tattoo just

[00:20:54] takes me to the side.

[00:20:55] And she was like, I appreciate like your ambition, but I think maybe not portraits right now.

[00:20:59] Like just hold off on that.

[00:21:01] And we'll see if we can like, uh, like work towards it.

[00:21:03] If that's what you want to do, we'll figure out a way to work towards it.

[00:21:05] And so it was that type of, you know, apprenticeship where it was just like kind of keeping me in

[00:21:10] my lane a little bit.

[00:21:12] Pardon this interruption diary listeners, but I have to shout out paradise, paradise tattoo gathering.

[00:21:17] You can find more about this show at tattoo gathering.com.

[00:21:23] There you can find your artist pass, your collector's passes.

[00:21:27] You can find more about where to book.

[00:21:31] If you want to stay in the area, Jiminy Peak mountain resort.

[00:21:35] It's an epic, epic venue.

[00:21:37] Uh, just gorgeous.

[00:21:39] The leaves are changing.

[00:21:40] It's all the things that October is supposed to be.

[00:21:43] Plus it's backing right up to Halloween.

[00:21:46] So there's going to be a lot of neat Halloween vibes.

[00:21:50] It's just a great show.

[00:21:52] It always draws in a epic cast of artists, presenters, seminars are given that are life

[00:21:59] changing.

[00:22:00] Uh, it's sponsored by some of the greatest people that I can imagine.

[00:22:04] Just, uh, just really OG people in the field of tattooing.

[00:22:09] The networking is beyond.

[00:22:12] Uh, and then I also want to take the time to reiterate at this, at this moment, the recording

[00:22:20] I did for our scholarship.

[00:22:22] I'm going to let you guys digest that.

[00:22:24] And then after we can get back to Jake.

[00:22:27] Did you know that paradise tattoo gathering has a scholarship fund for aspiring tattoo artists?

[00:22:34] Well, I'm here to tell you it does.

[00:22:37] This program aims to provide opportunities for those who may not be able to afford to

[00:22:42] attend the event.

[00:22:43] As Derek Youngberg of tattoo career builders put it, this scholarship opportunity is for

[00:22:49] somebody who can't afford to get there.

[00:22:51] It's not just about the education.

[00:22:53] It's about the networking platform.

[00:22:55] They will find when they get there.

[00:22:58] My name is Amy Nichols.

[00:23:00] And as a tattoo artist of 16 years, I can say that paradise has been a critical part of

[00:23:05] my life as a professional.

[00:23:07] Paradise gatherings reinvigorate and offer a space for artists who feel they have plateaued

[00:23:12] in their careers.

[00:23:13] As I said on the fireside podcast, I feel like paradise can give you new wings.

[00:23:19] It can connect you with people that can reinvigorate your business model and talent.

[00:23:24] This scholarship is part of the work that events like paradise are about.

[00:23:30] It offers another example of community and giving back.

[00:23:33] Paradise has always been a place where all have been welcomed under the common dedication

[00:23:38] to excellence in tattooing.

[00:23:40] This scholarship aims to expand the paradise mission to educate, support, and connect artists.

[00:23:46] You can play a part in supporting the future with a donation to the scholarship fund.

[00:23:50] Your contribution will be matched up to $10,000 by Coalition Tattoo Supply and Tattoo Career

[00:23:57] Builders, doubling the impact of your generosity.

[00:24:00] You can also nominate an artist to receive a scholarship or be considered for one.

[00:24:05] Whether you want to donate, nominate, or apply, please go to this web address.

[00:24:10] H-T-T-P-S colon forward slash forward slash forward slash paradise dot tattoo gathering dot com

[00:24:19] forward slash paradise dash scholarship.

[00:24:23] And as always, we look forward to seeing you in paradise.

[00:24:29] Well, I mean, you're a likable person.

[00:24:31] So I think that's probably why.

[00:24:33] Yeah, I mean, that's been my experience of you.

[00:24:36] That's probably why they called you and was like this guy, you know,

[00:24:38] that was something when we at my former studio, we always like wanted to hang out with a potential

[00:24:46] prospect first to just see if we could tolerate them as a person.

[00:24:50] And clearly you are a person that they enjoyed being around.

[00:24:54] So that's huge.

[00:24:56] Yeah, I think that's one of the biggest things.

[00:24:59] You know, we had some great guest artists come through that probably like from an artistic

[00:25:03] standpoint would have been great assets.

[00:25:06] Like they would have brought in business to the shop.

[00:25:08] But just, you know, egos would get in the way a lot.

[00:25:12] And especially at that point in time, Angela was was and is unique.

[00:25:18] It's a special person that she not only was the only one.

[00:25:22] There was one other woman in Memphis that owned a shop, Mouses.

[00:25:24] And Mouse has been around for since the early 80s, I think.

[00:25:27] And she's 70 something now, probably.

[00:25:30] Angela opened Underground Art with her art friends, not with a bunch of tattooers.

[00:25:35] And they just decided, like, we're going to do awesome tattoos because we can all draw.

[00:25:40] And she just took it.

[00:25:41] She was a custom shop before we knew the term.

[00:25:44] And so, yeah.

[00:25:47] So I think because of that, that took me a little bit in a different direction than I was

[00:25:51] intending to go.

[00:25:52] But she she was a unique person that she was a woman that started not only started to shop,

[00:25:57] but started a custom shop that instantly started winning best of Memphis with all of our Memphis

[00:26:01] poles and stuff like that.

[00:26:03] And so biker dudes just didn't like her.

[00:26:06] And a lot of other great tattooers that came through didn't like.

[00:26:11] I don't know if they didn't like her.

[00:26:13] They just weren't ready to be told what to do or be given a schedule by a woman, I think,

[00:26:17] especially she's like strong willed, you know, and they and so we had a lot of great artists

[00:26:22] come through.

[00:26:23] But within a couple of weeks, you know, it was just very clear, like, oh, man, they're

[00:26:27] butting heads constantly.

[00:26:28] It's just not going to work.

[00:26:29] And so that's I think that's pretty common when you have someone with a really great skill

[00:26:34] set, they end up bringing their ego along with them.

[00:26:37] So for me, being a mediocre artist and a mediocre tattooer, but a nice guy, I think, took

[00:26:41] me a long way.

[00:26:42] Yeah.

[00:26:44] My mom's a big proponent of Zig Ziglar's.

[00:26:47] It is your attitude, not your aptitude that determines your altitude.

[00:26:51] Oh, yeah.

[00:26:52] Good.

[00:26:53] Yeah.

[00:26:54] That's a good one.

[00:26:56] But yeah, like I found that, too.

[00:26:58] I started later than you for my second apprenticeship and I found a lot of it wasn't I mean, I don't

[00:27:04] know.

[00:27:04] It could have been that I was a woman.

[00:27:06] I'm not sure.

[00:27:08] Nobody.

[00:27:09] I got some innuendos of like that in my experience, which I found very odd.

[00:27:15] Um, but my you know, I wasn't running the show.

[00:27:20] So I wasn't like that.

[00:27:22] It was more so like this, um, art kid, like attitude.

[00:27:27] Like, and it was weird because it was like reverse.

[00:27:30] Like they, they kind of saw me as like having more of an ego and, and that I was all polished

[00:27:41] and hoity toity and don't come in here with your fancy, like college knowledge.

[00:27:45] And I was like, what is happening?

[00:27:50] Why is this?

[00:27:51] Um, why is this attitude happening?

[00:27:53] And I, you know, I would have drawn or helped show anything to anyone, you know, like your

[00:28:00] mentor, you know, I would have.

[00:28:02] If you'd asked me anything about, I knew I would have given it to you, um, free of

[00:28:07] charge.

[00:28:08] So, and that, um, that's been my experience.

[00:28:11] And maybe that was kind of the, the vibe too, is that like, um, the, the tattoo culture

[00:28:18] kind of clashing with that art world culture.

[00:28:21] Cause the early two thousands were like the Renaissance.

[00:28:24] I feel of like tattooing and invention and all that kind of stuff.

[00:28:30] Yeah.

[00:28:30] Yeah.

[00:28:31] Um, so you tattooed there for 50, well, did you learn?

[00:28:35] Let's start first.

[00:28:36] Uh, what was your first tattoo machine?

[00:28:37] Do you remember?

[00:28:38] Yeah.

[00:28:39] My first one was, um, from, um, uh, it was the Mad Max from, um, what were they called?

[00:28:46] Precision tattoo supply.

[00:28:47] It was like, uh, um, I bought it.

[00:28:50] It was a kit.

[00:28:51] Uh, well, I didn't buy the tattoo.

[00:28:52] I bought a kit that included like a couple of, you know, tubes and four inks and a machine

[00:28:59] you can buy, um, my, you can buy like national tattoo.

[00:29:03] I know for sure.

[00:29:03] Maybe precision did as well, but they would sell like tattoo kits that you would assemble.

[00:29:07] I bought one of those a couple of years later thinking like, I want to build my own,

[00:29:11] but there was just wasn't enough information out there for you to do it.

[00:29:14] Right.

[00:29:15] Uh, but yeah, my first one was called the Mad Max.

[00:29:17] And then I wish I still had it, but I don't know if you remember, um, Danny Fowler of time

[00:29:22] machine.

[00:29:23] So time machine was, uh, doing some really crazy stuff with their, with their machines

[00:29:28] back in the day.

[00:29:28] And they offered in the year 2000, they did a G 2000.

[00:29:32] The machine looked like a big G and it had 2000 stamped in it.

[00:29:35] And they would give you a hundred dollars credit towards that machine.

[00:29:38] If you sent in any other machine and I sent them my Mad Max, I don't know why I just wanted

[00:29:42] that.

[00:29:42] And now I look back and I'm like, man, I just gave that thing.

[00:29:45] My first machine, I gave it away for a hundred bucks.

[00:29:47] That was silly.

[00:29:48] Uh, cause I'd love to still have it.

[00:29:50] Well, yeah, I didn't know.

[00:29:51] I was just like, I just wanted something new and cool.

[00:29:54] Um, well, that's odd too, because a lot of like a lot of places now, like if a machine's

[00:29:58] been used, they don't, I don't want anything to do with it because they don't know.

[00:30:03] Yeah.

[00:30:04] I'd be curious what they were.

[00:30:05] I think Danny Fowler died a couple of years ago, fairly recently, but I wonder what they were

[00:30:09] doing with those machines that they took in for a hundred bucks each, you know, they

[00:30:13] probably ended up with some cool ones that people just didn't know any better where they

[00:30:16] were like, Oh wow.

[00:30:17] Like it's a collectors and I'm giving away one of my, I'm trading them one of my new

[00:30:20] machines and I'm making a thousand of it, you know?

[00:30:23] Yeah.

[00:30:24] Yeah.

[00:30:25] But good, uh, strategy, I guess.

[00:30:28] Yeah, probably so.

[00:30:29] Interesting.

[00:30:30] Time machine was cool in that they were, well, in theory was cool.

[00:30:33] Um, they had, instead of having like specific points, like where you're, um,

[00:30:39] like say where you're, uh, the, the set screw where your, where your armature bar would sit

[00:30:43] instead of that being a single hole drilled in the frame that held that armature bar in

[00:30:47] one place, it was slotted.

[00:30:48] So you can move your armature bar up and down and your contact screw from all different

[00:30:51] directions.

[00:30:52] The idea was like, Oh, you can set this up to be completely your own.

[00:30:55] It could be a liner or a shader.

[00:30:57] You, every point was slotted rather than just like a hole drilled in the frame.

[00:31:01] So you could like move it.

[00:31:02] You can move the coils up and down.

[00:31:04] You can move everything around, which I thought was going to be really cool.

[00:31:07] But actually it's a terrible for people who don't want to like screw with machines all

[00:31:12] the time.

[00:31:12] And so I can never like get them right.

[00:31:15] I was actually talking with, with Soba, BJ Johnson about this last year before the paradise

[00:31:20] gathering.

[00:31:20] And he was like, yeah, everyone had that problem.

[00:31:22] Like it seemed like such a cool idea, but no one could keep them in tune, you know,

[00:31:27] because they were constantly vibrating out or somewhere else into the slot, you know?

[00:31:31] Yeah, man.

[00:31:32] No, totally.

[00:31:33] I, uh, it is, it is a interesting thing in theory.

[00:31:38] I, yeah, I, uh, I don't like messing with machines.

[00:31:42] So that was kind of my, my hiccup in the beginning.

[00:31:45] I was just like, really?

[00:31:46] I got, I got to carry around an Embry board just to run this fucker.

[00:31:50] There's carbon buildup.

[00:31:52] What is this madness?

[00:31:53] Like that stuff didn't compute to me.

[00:31:55] Cause you know, in the art realm, it's so tactile, you know, like you can burn.

[00:32:00] A piece of wood and draw with it.

[00:32:02] Yeah.

[00:32:03] And you don't really have to, it's caveman shit.

[00:32:06] Like you just, you can use your fingers.

[00:32:09] So whenever it comes to the mechanics for me, I'm like, I'm with you.

[00:32:15] I'm not, but I hated it.

[00:32:18] Yeah.

[00:32:18] I want everything to work the same way every time I pick it up.

[00:32:21] And that was the problem, you know, um, with, excuse me, with, with coils.

[00:32:25] That was the problem was, um, uh, you would, it would behave differently from one day

[00:32:30] to the next, you know, and you, you're like, Oh God, I'm lining a, you know, a scroll piece

[00:32:35] today.

[00:32:36] And I can't get the thing to like, every time I turn it at this angle, it bogs down and

[00:32:39] won't, you know, it hangs up or.

[00:32:41] And I've even heard some like in deep conversations about it where I like there, they discuss like

[00:32:47] the magnetism, like your own personal magnetic force.

[00:32:52] Yeah.

[00:32:53] Well, cause the machine did not work.

[00:32:56] So if you just let it sit for a minute and don't use it, it works fine.

[00:33:00] The next I'm like, what?

[00:33:02] I think I want to say Carson Hill and I had that discussion once on the podcast about the,

[00:33:07] uh, you know, that was his kind of, he, he threw that out there like, Oh, and you know,

[00:33:11] it's all like electromagnetism and we're all magnetic in a way.

[00:33:15] Uh, he was really ahead of his time and in the evolution of, of tattooed machines.

[00:33:21] I, um, I, I credit him a lot, uh, with just all of he, he didn't, I mean, he, you know,

[00:33:26] the pneuma that he built, pneuma one, pneuma two, those were pneumatic machines that are air

[00:33:31] powered, but they did get people.

[00:33:32] And while people don't use those anymore, they did get people thinking about an alternative

[00:33:36] to coil machines.

[00:33:37] And I don't know that we would have ever seen the rotary resurgence if he hadn't done that,

[00:33:41] you know, in 2002 or three or whatever.

[00:33:43] Oh, I remember I, I got his hybrid and, uh, was stupid because it was a hybrid, but it

[00:33:50] was not meant to be run on a power supply to be run on an air compressor.

[00:33:56] Yeah.

[00:33:57] And so it was only like, if you travel to a convention and you didn't want to bring your

[00:34:00] air compressor, obviously, um, that you would run it off a power supply.

[00:34:05] Well, that was not, that was not in the fine print, I guess.

[00:34:10] So it kept breaking and, um, it's kind of sucked for me because in my second apprenticeship,

[00:34:16] that was the one I was referred to buy.

[00:34:19] And, um, I couldn't, I couldn't run it really.

[00:34:22] Yeah.

[00:34:23] So I was like, dude, this is my only machine, but yeah, I remember.

[00:34:29] Yeah.

[00:34:29] And he makes brilliant machines now.

[00:34:32] Like it's, uh, yeah, that's my daily driver.

[00:34:34] Now is the new, the latest, the Numa, not the latest one.

[00:34:37] I do have it.

[00:34:38] I still use the one before it the most, the Numa, um, um, macros, what he calls it.

[00:34:43] Um, it's a Numa four macro.

[00:34:45] I've got the Numa five.

[00:34:46] Uh, that's super cool.

[00:34:48] I just, you know, you just, yeah, I'm just still used to use something.

[00:34:51] You just keep using it.

[00:34:52] So I want to use the new version, but I just know the old version, how it works so well.

[00:34:55] And I just keep using it.

[00:34:57] I have to try them out.

[00:34:58] I have to say that that, that was something that kind of ran me off, but a lot of tattoo

[00:35:02] artists that I know, um, use them, you know, and they're wonderful at that point after

[00:35:08] that, I think Cheyenne was coming out with stuff and that's who I'd stuck with for a long

[00:35:12] time.

[00:35:13] Um, but now there's, there's so many options and they're all really, really good.

[00:35:17] Yeah.

[00:35:17] Nobody's man.

[00:35:18] I mean, you know, like you can, but I mean, I don't recommend it, but you can go buy a $70

[00:35:22] one off of Amazon and tattoo just fine with it.

[00:35:25] You know, I tattoo my eyebrows with one of those jobbers and keep it at home and I just

[00:35:29] need to touch up every once in a while.

[00:35:30] My boyfriend comes in, he's like, are you tattooing your face yourself?

[00:35:34] I'm like, yeah, man, I do this shit all the time.

[00:35:36] Wow.

[00:35:38] I guess if you're, I mean, you spent your life doing like, I guess like brushing.

[00:35:42] I mean, I put on my makeup every day.

[00:35:44] I'm like, I'm, I'm probably the best person to do this.

[00:35:48] Yeah.

[00:35:48] Yeah.

[00:35:49] Um, David Evans, the guy that was my mentor, that was my host for my co-host for so long.

[00:35:55] This would be like late nineties, early two thousands.

[00:35:57] He was tattooing.

[00:35:58] I had never heard of cosmetic tattooing.

[00:36:00] He was tattooing eyebrows, you know, with a coil and was like, he would have the person

[00:36:04] go in and like draw, use the tone or whatever that they want, like their own pencil, draw it

[00:36:09] and basically make their own stencil for him and then lie down.

[00:36:12] And he would just match it with, you know, and then like just brush it in.

[00:36:17] He's like, yeah, we may have to do it again.

[00:36:18] And well, and I just remember thinking like, oh, you are so bold to tattoo somebody's face.

[00:36:24] And, uh, but yeah, he was doing that stuff 25 years ago.

[00:36:28] It's crazy.

[00:36:28] Awesome.

[00:36:29] That's awesome.

[00:36:30] Yeah, man.

[00:36:31] I'm, uh, you know, if it's myself, it's fine.

[00:36:33] There's a lot of, um, cosmetic things just in general like that, like now they're doing

[00:36:37] a lot of, like they, they put stem cells on your face and then run like a tattoo machine

[00:36:44] all over your face and basically create like mid-level trauma.

[00:36:47] And then the, the gel that they put on it, you know, mixed with your body's own collagen

[00:36:53] production helps like smooth out, you know, any kind of fine lines and wrinkles and, um,

[00:36:59] um, creates, you know, lift and all this crap, you know, that people run away from aging.

[00:37:06] Yeah.

[00:37:07] I just hope that my lines come from smiling personally.

[00:37:10] Same here.

[00:37:11] Me too.

[00:37:13] Yeah.

[00:37:13] Uh, what was your first tattoo?

[00:37:16] My first tattoo was, um, the, uh, green eggs and ham.

[00:37:20] Like I, the little dude holding the, I am Sam.

[00:37:22] He's got the green eggs and ham and one, and he's got a sign that says, I am Sam.

[00:37:25] It was on my lower thigh.

[00:37:26] That was my first tattoo.

[00:37:27] I had a t-shirt, I had a t-shirt with it and I brought the t-shirt in and they photocopied

[00:37:31] the t-shirt and, and did the tattoo and, um, butchered it like the greens.

[00:37:36] And I didn't understand why everything did fine, but there's green in the sign and there's

[00:37:40] green in the ham and the, and the yoga, the eggs and everything healed fine.

[00:37:44] The greens all scabbed up and fell out.

[00:37:46] And I was like, God, I must have another reaction to the green.

[00:37:49] And then I realized when I started tattooing not long after, it's like, if you don't know

[00:37:52] what you're doing, like you can, especially old greens, like back in the day, like

[00:37:57] you're trying to get like a lime green, it never looks solid in the skin.

[00:38:00] So you just keep trying to push it in the skin, you know, yellows and greens were like that.

[00:38:04] And this guy had been tattooing a long time, but he just wasn't, he just completely overworked

[00:38:08] the skin.

[00:38:09] Yeah.

[00:38:09] It wasn't, it wasn't competent enough to do it, but, but yeah, uh, I had, it's only

[00:38:14] recently been covered.

[00:38:15] Andy chambers, uh, and it has covered it with a big, and he's doing my, like a neck to supposed

[00:38:20] to be a neck to knee back piece on me, but it's made its way down to my ankle on one

[00:38:23] leg.

[00:38:24] And so we ended up covering the green eggs and ham.

[00:38:26] Just cause of him.

[00:38:27] That's pretty dope.

[00:38:28] What was your, what was your first one?

[00:38:30] My first one was on my back.

[00:38:32] It's like a dinner plate size.

[00:38:34] And I was like, um, I've done the, the faux pas of having three different artists finish

[00:38:40] it.

[00:38:42] So I got aligned and that was my first mentor.

[00:38:45] And then that situation workout.

[00:38:47] And so I came here to Maryland and it was not well lined at all.

[00:38:52] And, uh, so then the guy that I approached, he's still tattooing.

[00:38:56] He's in Annapolis.

[00:38:57] He's really good traditional tattoo artists.

[00:38:59] Um, but that's not the style I work in.

[00:39:03] So I had him reline it.

[00:39:05] And when he started talking about the colors that he wanted to use, I was like, no, no.

[00:39:10] Like I, I like him.

[00:39:12] His, his name's Joe.

[00:39:13] Um, but, uh, I was like, it's not going to work.

[00:39:16] And then I had a, another traditional artist actually finish it, which is interesting, but,

[00:39:22] um, he did a great job.

[00:39:24] I mean, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's a good, it's a good first tattoo.

[00:39:29] I've waffled between the idea of covering it.

[00:39:32] And I don't think I can, I think it's, I think it's too much a part of my history.

[00:39:37] And I think it's appropriate because the idea came from a dream.

[00:39:42] Uh, I dreamt of seven snakes eating each other in a circle and it was really weird.

[00:39:48] And I read a lot of things like Joseph Campbell and story creation and symbolism.

[00:39:54] And so for me, that was like, Ooh, that's a very deep, symbolically rich thing.

[00:39:59] Um, but it's all about like, I've, I've read, I think it's in the Bible too, that you, you

[00:40:05] fall seven times, um, before you reach some kind of grace or like understanding, but you

[00:40:11] know, it's, it's about like falling and then getting back up again.

[00:40:14] And so for me, like the seven was a very pivotal number.

[00:40:17] Plus it's a huge number of completion.

[00:40:19] So for me, it's like my life journey.

[00:40:22] And it's kind of, it's kind of interesting that there was three people, seven snakes,

[00:40:28] and it's not great.

[00:40:30] Like that's my life.

[00:40:35] So far it's very on par.

[00:40:38] A good way to look at it.

[00:40:40] Yeah.

[00:40:41] Yeah.

[00:40:42] I mean, I I've thought about like, you know, maybe blasting something that kind of goes through

[00:40:47] it or something like not, not anything that would just, just having it be there and just

[00:40:52] like, Hey, it is what it is.

[00:40:53] I'm very honest about like, I try to, that's a big thing about me.

[00:40:57] I really try to be, if I'm a fool, I'm an honest fool.

[00:41:01] And that's a big thing I try for.

[00:41:04] Yeah.

[00:41:06] What, what about, uh, when did you, when did they let you start tattooing?

[00:41:10] Like how long were you an apprentice before?

[00:41:12] Like, I know you had been tattooing and then you had an apprenticeship and then you started

[00:41:16] another one.

[00:41:17] So how did that look?

[00:41:18] The second one, I, since I was already tattooing, they like, I could tattoo with me.

[00:41:22] I tattooed the first day.

[00:41:23] Uh, so, uh, but it was essentially, they weren't necessarily saying like, you're going to have

[00:41:28] to redo your apprenticeship, but just like you learned a lot of things wrong or didn't

[00:41:32] learn them at all.

[00:41:32] You know, you're kind of, you're going to have to unlearn a lot.

[00:41:35] And, uh, but they did that just through, you know, you know, guidance and letting me fumble

[00:41:40] my way through a little bit, but then, you know, helping a lot of it was helping with just

[00:41:45] making things, not setting yourself up for failure.

[00:41:48] I talk a lot on our show about things being tattooable, like what makes something tattooable

[00:41:52] or not tattooable.

[00:41:53] And I drew a lot of non-tattooable stuff, you know?

[00:41:57] And it was an era where it was like, it was, it was, it would make you kind of proud to

[00:42:02] be able to noodle in very tiny, like hidden things within things and all of that.

[00:42:07] You know, it was just, that's, that's kind of what the nineties were in tattooing was a

[00:42:10] lot of little stuff.

[00:42:11] Uh, so I, I like went deep into that.

[00:42:14] I was just trying to do a lot of noodley little things, uh, inside of everything.

[00:42:18] Cherry Creek Flash.

[00:42:21] Everything like these roses were like this big, like they were an inch tall.

[00:42:24] Yeah.

[00:42:25] And you wanted every petal to like have a blend from, you know, pink to red to whatever,

[00:42:29] you know, like just trying to like noodle everything to death.

[00:42:33] Uh, you know, that, um, so I learned a lot about just like setting myself up from a drawing

[00:42:39] standpoint, you know, for, for success, uh, learned, you know, they taught me about using,

[00:42:44] you know, negative space to avoid that parts.

[00:42:46] You don't want to tattoo, like how to like not tattoo an elbow without making it look like

[00:42:50] you ditched the, you didn't want to tattoo the elbow or the armpit.

[00:42:53] So that, you know, a lot of, I guess you would call it, I mean, in some ways it's maybe more

[00:42:58] advanced ideas, but really basic ideas.

[00:43:00] Uh, but you know, you know, that everyone.

[00:43:03] Those are the things you don't think about though.

[00:43:04] Yeah.

[00:43:05] You know, like that's, that's, uh, really a next level, even for your client, because

[00:43:10] they don't think about it either.

[00:43:12] I can't tell you the number of times that people show me a picture and it's a tattoo and it's

[00:43:17] very contained, but it's like very close on the forearm, for example.

[00:43:23] And I'm like, well, what is that going to look like if you pan out?

[00:43:27] Like, and you stand over across the room, are you going to know what the hell that was?

[00:43:30] And then I go, Oh, I'm like, yeah, that's a beautiful photo.

[00:43:33] You know, do you want, do you want your, do you want people at the Walmart to be that

[00:43:37] close to you?

[00:43:38] Right.

[00:43:40] Like, Oh, that's a good point.

[00:43:42] Yeah.

[00:43:44] Yeah.

[00:43:45] Yeah.

[00:43:45] People, people don't think, think about it that way.

[00:43:47] You know, uh, that's important.

[00:43:49] Yeah.

[00:43:49] It's important too, for, um, you know, for, for longevity.

[00:43:52] And yeah, so that, that was, I got a lot of help from, from David and from some of the

[00:43:56] other folks there that, you know, that kind of helped along those lines, like, you know,

[00:43:59] overshooting the space drawing bigger than you think you should, or, you know, like, uh,

[00:44:03] yeah.

[00:44:04] Using negative space.

[00:44:05] I still got to work on that.

[00:44:06] I mean, those are still challenges to this day of mine.

[00:44:11] All right.

[00:44:12] Diary listeners.

[00:44:13] That is the first half of Jake's diary entry.

[00:44:18] We'll have the second piece next week.

[00:44:21] Please touch back.

[00:44:22] It's a great tale.

[00:44:23] Uh, I'm, I'm pretty blessed and grateful that I got the opportunity to get the, the skinny

[00:44:31] here.

[00:44:32] And this time with Jake, he gave me a lot of his time.

[00:44:35] I know he's a very busy man.

[00:44:37] Uh, so I'm very grateful, Jake.

[00:44:40] You can follow Jake at plug ugly art.

[00:44:43] I don't know why he calls it that, but, uh, I guess it's ironic and it's, it's definitely

[00:44:48] humble.

[00:44:49] And I definitely felt that about much of what Jake has relayed to us thus far is, uh, a sense

[00:44:57] of humility about himself, his experience.

[00:45:01] So that's greatly appreciated.

[00:45:03] And I think that's a wonderful thing to, uh, guide us as we move into this week.

[00:45:10] Hopefully each of us can use what we have from this, uh, this podcast and what we listened

[00:45:16] to and, uh, incorporated into what we're about to do.

[00:45:21] I wish you all a powerful week.

[00:45:23] God bless and good day.

[00:45:28] Thanks for listening.

[00:45:29] You can find the apprenticeship diaries on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.

[00:45:33] Our IG is the underscore apprenticeship underscore diaries.

[00:45:37] If you would like to offer constructive criticism or an interview, drop us an email at theapprenticeshipdiaries

[00:45:42] at gmail.com.

[00:45:44] We look forward to hearing from our listeners.