Ep. 224 "Staying Entertained" (Diary Entry 2:2 with Jake Meeks)

[00:00:00] Hello Diary listeners, welcome back! Welcome back to the second part of Jake Meeks' uh, I guess Jake Meek, Meeks, Meeks, Meeks' I don't know what the possession would be, I should have asked him that, that would have been a good question.

[00:00:16] Anyway, uh, Jake Meeks of Fireside Tattoo Network, this is the second piece of his diary entry with us, and I'm calling it Staying Entertained. Because I hope that all of you stay entertained. Enjoy listeners.

[00:00:36] Welcome to The Apprenticeship Diaries, where raw meets refined.

[00:00:39] Let's be real, we're still working on refined.

[00:00:42] What it took, what it takes, and the stories that are made.

[00:00:45] Join us as we learn from professionals about how their stories begin.

[00:00:57] Um, what, what was the hardest thing for you? Like, what was the hardest to click for you in tattooing?

[00:01:04] Uh, like, just in any way, technically?

[00:01:07] Yeah, any of it.

[00:01:08] Um, probably, um, the thing that I struggled with the most for the longest was not wanting to, the client to be uncomfortable.

[00:01:19] So not committing to a lot, so, you know, something taking longer than it should because I'm trying to ease into it

[00:01:24] or get the people into the, you know, into the zone or whatever.

[00:01:27] And I still in, uh, sometimes find myself like that.

[00:01:31] If someone, you know, gets uncomfortable, whether rather than just, um, getting in there and getting it done,

[00:01:36] I'll like, uh, you know, ease back.

[00:01:40] And really all I'm doing is creating more work for me and a longer sit for them.

[00:01:44] Uh, but it took me a while to, you know, to, to get that down.

[00:01:47] Like, I wouldn't be willing to get them in a position that made my life easier.

[00:01:51] Like if they felt better sitting up for a lower back tattoo and it made the back super spongy,

[00:01:56] I just dealt with it, you know, rather than saying like, Hey, I got it.

[00:01:59] Like, sorry, this is going to go faster.

[00:02:01] If you just do it this way, if you just lean forward or don't, um, that was, it's always,

[00:02:06] it was more relationship type of thing.

[00:02:08] Like I was just wanting to keep them, you know, comfortable and happy.

[00:02:12] Uh, and it ended up being at the cost of the, the tattoo, you know, like spending longer than

[00:02:18] I wanted and maybe not getting the result that I wanted.

[00:02:20] That's a, that's a, a good, a good challenge.

[00:02:25] You know, um, there, I was in, um, the, the hair industry before tattooing.

[00:02:32] So a lot of client relations that involved touching and positioning and all of those stuff, like

[00:02:38] ergonomics, um, made a lot of sense to me.

[00:02:41] Of course I did all of what you're talking about, but the second somebody was like, look, this is,

[00:02:47] this is bad on you.

[00:02:49] It's bad on them.

[00:02:50] It's going to take longer.

[00:02:52] Why are you doing that?

[00:02:53] Maybe they had to tell me a few times, but eventually I was like, yeah, that makes sense.

[00:02:58] And your back eventually feels a lot of it too.

[00:03:01] Yeah.

[00:03:02] Yeah.

[00:03:03] It takes its toll, you know?

[00:03:05] And I, you, you end up, you know, you'll, you'll fix it in the long run, especially with you move,

[00:03:09] you know, as you get into more complex stuff or larger stuff and you realize you have to cut,

[00:03:13] like, you know, we can't do 15 sessions on this piece where you have to do it in six or seven.

[00:03:18] And we have to commit and get in there.

[00:03:20] And, um, you know, eventually you, you, you work it out, but it took me a while.

[00:03:25] And I still hate for people to be uncomfortable.

[00:03:26] Like if I can tell that they're really struggling through an area, I have to focus to not let it get

[00:03:31] in my head.

[00:03:32] You know, I'll, you know, I'll try to, you know,

[00:03:35] I'll say, yeah, do you want to, do you want to take a break?

[00:03:37] Like, no, no, no.

[00:03:37] I just want to get it over with.

[00:03:38] You're like, and then it's like, ah, okay.

[00:03:41] I'm like, uh, that that's a, that's a problem.

[00:03:44] I've still never completely.

[00:03:45] I'm sad to say that I've told people to get drugs.

[00:03:48] I'm like, you need to get drugs.

[00:03:50] Like whatever you're doing, it's not working and it's not working for me.

[00:03:55] It's not working for you.

[00:03:56] Yeah.

[00:03:57] Like drug yourself.

[00:04:00] They're like, what, how am I going to do that?

[00:04:02] I'm like, I don't know, man, figure it out.

[00:04:04] Yeah.

[00:04:05] I get drugs offered to me.

[00:04:06] Like get drugs.

[00:04:08] Right.

[00:04:09] Right.

[00:04:10] I just said we've got a podcast that has an episode that hasn't been released yet, but

[00:04:14] it's with Kurt Jacobson.

[00:04:15] And he is, uh, the whole podcast is about, um, he's traveling and doing, he's on like the

[00:04:22] competitive circuit.

[00:04:23] So he does the three day pieces for best to show at big shows.

[00:04:26] So he's going to hell city and trying to take best to show.

[00:04:29] So he has one client and you know how they're all doing like full thighs.

[00:04:31] It'll be like a five down your whole leg and you do it in three days.

[00:04:34] He's doing that stuff.

[00:04:35] So we talked about like everything from like how to recruit the types of clients to, you

[00:04:40] know, to, you know, getting as far as you need to get each day.

[00:04:44] And, uh, and then also pain management, you know, as well.

[00:04:48] And so we've, we talked about drugs.

[00:04:50] We talked about Bactine and all kinds of stuff in the episode.

[00:04:52] And he introduced something interesting to me.

[00:04:55] I've been a big proponent of, but you have using Bactine.

[00:04:57] I use it all the time in my tattoos and, um, I have noticed, I hadn't said anything about

[00:05:02] it, but I've noticed some of my regular clients are struggling more now than they ever have.

[00:05:07] And it's almost like it's not having the same effect.

[00:05:09] And Kurt brought it up.

[00:05:11] He was like, it's not having the same effect.

[00:05:12] People build up a tolerance to Bactine the same way they do to anything else that they

[00:05:16] take all the time.

[00:05:17] So if you're wiping them with Bactine every six weeks, if they're in there constantly

[00:05:20] and you're using it all the time from start to finish, like you're really doing them a

[00:05:25] disservice.

[00:05:25] And I never thought of it that way.

[00:05:27] And, um, he has an interesting approach where he's trying to use water for as long as he

[00:05:31] can, no Bactine, no anything.

[00:05:33] And he just communicates and he, he uses the one to 10 scale.

[00:05:36] He's just like, how, what, what, what's the pain level one to 10 right now?

[00:05:40] And they're like, you know, six or they're three or whatever it is.

[00:05:42] And so he's like, right, when you get to an eight, let me know.

[00:05:45] And then, so he'll hold off as long as possible before using any topicals like that.

[00:05:50] And he's getting people regularly, you know, every, every weekend or every show that he

[00:05:54] does, he's getting people through three days, you know?

[00:05:57] That's awesome.

[00:05:58] That's awesome.

[00:05:59] It's good to know.

[00:06:00] It's good to know.

[00:06:01] There's lots of different things.

[00:06:02] It's weird.

[00:06:03] Um, I mean, in the, in the drug and topical realm for sure, but like, um, you know, noise

[00:06:10] canceling headphones, you know, dark sunglasses, those kinds of things for people, a lot of sensory

[00:06:16] stuff like can get people.

[00:06:18] I noticed for myself, I'm a very talkative person, but past six hours of tattooing.

[00:06:24] Not at all.

[00:06:25] Nope.

[00:06:25] I hate your face.

[00:06:27] Yeah.

[00:06:28] I'm not happy.

[00:06:29] I can't, I can't do much.

[00:06:32] Like if you asked me anything, I'd be like, what?

[00:06:35] I'm ready to eat your face off.

[00:06:37] I want to lay down.

[00:06:38] I want to drink.

[00:06:41] I want to be hugged.

[00:06:43] Yeah.

[00:06:44] Like, oh, this is, this sucks.

[00:06:47] I don't know how they do it.

[00:06:48] Honestly.

[00:06:49] I mean, uh, they're cooler than me.

[00:06:52] Right.

[00:06:53] Yeah.

[00:06:54] Yeah.

[00:06:55] Same here.

[00:06:55] It's impressive.

[00:06:56] Especially at a convention at a show, you know, and I like there's the sensory stuff

[00:07:00] is a, is a big deal there.

[00:07:01] And, and it's helpful for smart, for small tattoos when you can talk to folks that are

[00:07:05] walking by the booth, you know, you're the, you're getting tattooed and people are asking

[00:07:08] what it is and you're showing it off, you know, an hour or two or three, that's fine.

[00:07:11] You know, within over time, it's just hearing everyone else laughing and having a good time

[00:07:15] around you.

[00:07:15] And you're like in the darkest hole.

[00:07:18] It's like, oh my God, get out of my face.

[00:07:20] And then like, you want me to do what, man?

[00:07:22] You want me to stand there while some judge looks at me?

[00:07:26] Right.

[00:07:26] What?

[00:07:28] Yeah.

[00:07:29] But yeah, that, that's going to be a great episode.

[00:07:31] I'll have to catch that.

[00:07:33] Yeah.

[00:07:33] I'm excited about it.

[00:07:34] I got, I got a lot out of it.

[00:07:35] Um, and it was, it went like, it's by far the longest episode I've ever recorded, like

[00:07:40] three and a half hours.

[00:07:41] So we're going to make it, uh, we'll break it up.

[00:07:44] I think, I don't know that I'm going to try to put someone through three hours, but.

[00:07:47] That's great.

[00:07:48] I love that though.

[00:07:49] I love that though.

[00:07:50] Yeah.

[00:07:51] I mean, you know, I always break them up into segments.

[00:07:53] Like if this went two hours, I try to do two episodes, um, you know, tension spans

[00:07:59] are, you know, it's just not what there's, yeah, whatever.

[00:08:03] Yeah.

[00:08:03] I don't, I don't do the.

[00:08:05] Marathon episodes.

[00:08:07] No, I do.

[00:08:08] I love them.

[00:08:09] I love long car rides for me.

[00:08:12] I I'll, I'll come right back to it.

[00:08:14] For me, it's about, is the content engaging enough to have me revisit it?

[00:08:19] You know, like, and a good story, good content, things like that.

[00:08:24] You'll come back.

[00:08:24] If it isn't, it isn't.

[00:08:26] Um, for me, it was always like, well, you did a thing, you know, with podcasting, you're,

[00:08:31] you're, you're using your time to make something that you're going to put out in the world.

[00:08:35] And for me, it's like, well, as the two people, I mean, you can look at the optics of it and

[00:08:40] be like, ah, you know, it didn't really do really well or no, not enough people clicked

[00:08:45] on it, but you did it.

[00:08:46] It's there for everybody.

[00:08:48] And if anybody comes in and criticize you and be like, well, where's your podcast?

[00:08:52] Yeah.

[00:08:53] Like, what did you do that day or with that time?

[00:08:57] You know?

[00:08:57] So that's, that's my whole thing is that like, you did a thing, you made something,

[00:09:02] you could have done a lot of things, but you, you did a really cool thing that people can

[00:09:06] tap into at any point.

[00:09:08] And I love that, that topic.

[00:09:10] That's a great topic.

[00:09:11] Um, I am seeing a lot of people like that.

[00:09:13] My friends, uh, Evan Olin and, um, uh, Andy large are doing a lot of those kinds of things.

[00:09:20] And his whole shop is like a rockstar cast at this point.

[00:09:22] It's pretty cool.

[00:09:23] I haven't seen them since before COVID.

[00:09:25] I was actually leaving his shop when COVID was really breaking out and I haven't been back

[00:09:31] there.

[00:09:31] And I'm just like, man, am I cool enough to like, he's my friend, but like, they're like

[00:09:38] way cooler.

[00:09:40] Yeah.

[00:09:41] Yeah.

[00:09:41] He's doing great.

[00:09:42] Yeah.

[00:09:42] You should, you should reach out.

[00:09:43] And, um, yeah.

[00:09:44] Um, yeah.

[00:09:46] Evan, I don't know, Evan, but I know his work.

[00:09:47] Well, I'm sure we've crossed paths.

[00:09:50] I know that I've worked at shows with him.

[00:09:52] I don't know that we've ever had a conversation, but his work's incredible.

[00:09:55] You'd love him.

[00:09:56] He's such a good person.

[00:09:57] Like, I mean, everybody that I've met through him has been good people.

[00:10:01] They're really fun too.

[00:10:03] Very fun.

[00:10:04] Yeah.

[00:10:05] Awesome.

[00:10:06] Yeah.

[00:10:07] Yeah.

[00:10:08] Um,

[00:10:09] all right.

[00:10:09] So you worked there for 15 years.

[00:10:14] Um, what would you say?

[00:10:16] What would you say your style is?

[00:10:19] I think it's, um, I, I, I really love creating a narrative, even if like the, no one else knows,

[00:10:28] like I, I like, um, I like creating a narrative.

[00:10:31] I like doing big tattoos.

[00:10:32] I always say like large scale, illustrative, like color illustrative, but I've really gotten

[00:10:37] to where I enjoy, you know, large scale black and gray.

[00:10:39] I don't love like realism.

[00:10:41] I like for things to seem believable, but, um, imaginative, uh, you know, I don't want it

[00:10:46] to look real, but I do want to create environments that look like they could be real.

[00:10:50] So, um, and, um, and so most of my favorite tattooers, you know, are working in styles

[00:10:55] like that.

[00:10:56] Um, and I've just gotten like, it's funny, like whenever you're trying to recruit people

[00:11:01] for, you know, backs and full fronts and sleeves and stuff like that, most people know

[00:11:06] what they want with a smaller tattoo.

[00:11:08] It's tougher a lot of times with, with big tattoos.

[00:11:11] So the more you can help by having some type of, uh, uh, uh, you know, uh, an idea, a story

[00:11:17] about common things like overcoming struggle or whatever, you know, that type of thing.

[00:11:23] Um, uh, as long as you can come up with a cool way to, to, to like, uh, to tell that story,

[00:11:29] I find that most of my clients are willing to get whatever I want to draw as long as I

[00:11:33] can explain what, you know, the narrative and why it is what it is.

[00:11:36] So I, um, and I use like a lot of the new, I use perplexity, but chat GPT, all of those,

[00:11:42] they're great for that kind of stuff.

[00:11:44] If you want to like, if you want to say like, Hey, I'm like, I want to do a back piece that,

[00:11:49] you know, that involves an owl and or whatever.

[00:11:50] Are there any, like, you know, there, are there any stories that combine those two animals

[00:11:54] and like, or what would you like, you know, are there any myths about, you know, about

[00:11:59] owls, horned owls that, you know, live in this type of world and it'll like, it'll

[00:12:04] help you so much and then you can at least like kind of piece stuff together.

[00:12:07] So I, you know, I've gotten to where I use that stuff a lot.

[00:12:09] I don't use it as much for image generation as I'm using it for a story to create the story.

[00:12:16] Yeah.

[00:12:16] Well, then you would love Joseph, Joseph Campbell too.

[00:12:19] Did you ever read him?

[00:12:20] No, I never did.

[00:12:21] No, no.

[00:12:21] You would love the power of myth.

[00:12:24] Okay.

[00:12:24] It's a good book.

[00:12:25] And I think it's a Utah, a YouTube interview as well.

[00:12:29] They made it into a book, but you can actually watch it.

[00:12:31] Joseph Campbell's dead, obviously, but he, he did this really great interview and he studied

[00:12:36] all of the world's like basic, basic mythologies and theologies and, and really, really, really

[00:12:45] like showed you, I mean, we've explored it at paradise, which is just so everybody knows

[00:12:51] where we met, um, I met through, but, um, we've done like, I know seminars there where

[00:12:59] we've had like archeological kind of conversations about symbolism throughout, you know, tattooing

[00:13:08] and time and, and correlations of tattooing being more medicine in certain, certain countries

[00:13:14] and, um, time spaces, but that there are these similar, these similar, uh, psychological attachments

[00:13:23] to, uh, images and symbols throughout all time and space and humanity.

[00:13:30] And that we are, we kind of gravitate to these same themes and it doesn't matter where we

[00:13:36] are, you know, a snake represents something very significant to humans.

[00:13:43] Um, it's, it's funny that it all started with snakes, but yeah, um, I think you'd really,

[00:13:50] really enjoy that.

[00:13:51] Um, but yeah, we have chat GBT and things like that.

[00:13:54] Um, that's really cool.

[00:13:55] I love that.

[00:13:56] So kind of illustrative, you know, in the grand way.

[00:13:59] Illustrative.

[00:13:59] And, and I like, um, you know, I, I like to layer and play, I like to get multiple opportunities.

[00:14:05] So I, I, I'm a much bigger fan of, of large scale work that I can, that I can build on,

[00:14:11] uh, more like a painting work general to specific.

[00:14:13] And I don't take a real tattoo-y approach, you know, I don't like do all my outlines,

[00:14:17] do all my shading, do all my color.

[00:14:20] Uh, uh, so yeah, I, um, I, I, I like larger stuff.

[00:14:24] I'm finding that I need to do smaller stuff just for my own, just to get it back a little

[00:14:29] bit.

[00:14:29] I spent a lot of years doing small tattoos and now I find I struggle when I'm at conventions,

[00:14:33] for example, and I have them trying to knock out something this size and like, all right,

[00:14:36] well, this should have been 30 minutes and we're an hour and a half in.

[00:14:38] And, uh, everything shows so much when you have those little ones and the precision of

[00:14:43] those it's, they're very technical.

[00:14:45] And I agree.

[00:14:46] I'm the same.

[00:14:46] I love big scale stuff, but, um, you know, that precision and that really good technical

[00:14:52] skills on those small ones.

[00:14:54] I mean, that's like really great mastery.

[00:14:56] Yeah.

[00:14:57] I agree.

[00:14:58] Yeah.

[00:14:59] Um, I asked that question because you do teach usually, um, things about finding your

[00:15:04] style and that was a great seminar that you gave by the way.

[00:15:08] Yeah.

[00:15:08] I love it.

[00:15:09] Yeah.

[00:15:09] Yeah.

[00:15:10] I think that's, I think that's important, especially for beginning tattooers is because

[00:15:13] when people think about, I start that talk, uh, separating style from category, you know,

[00:15:19] tattoo category.

[00:15:20] And a lot of times when we talk about style and tattooing, it's like asking, you know, what

[00:15:25] tattoo category do you work in?

[00:15:26] And like, Oh, like what, what's your tattoo style?

[00:15:28] Oh, I love neo trad.

[00:15:29] That's like, that's like a, that's too general to be your style.

[00:15:32] Your style is more personal than that.

[00:15:35] Yeah.

[00:15:35] Well, yeah, absolutely.

[00:15:37] Um, they're usually fusions.

[00:15:39] Um, yeah, for sure.

[00:15:40] Um, well, you know, this is the apprenticeship diaries.

[00:15:45] We're asking about your beginning.

[00:15:47] So, uh, have you apprenticed people?

[00:15:50] I know you're big in education now.

[00:15:53] So it's fireside and it's, it's huge.

[00:15:55] You've, you've really moved into the mentor space.

[00:15:58] Yeah.

[00:15:58] It's funny in a weird way.

[00:16:00] Yeah.

[00:16:00] So we had, um, underground art was sort of an apprentice by committee type of space.

[00:16:06] So there were three that I can think of for sure, uh, apprentices that we kind of worked

[00:16:11] by committee in those 15 years that I was there.

[00:16:14] Uh, and some, most of them had a lead apprentice, like someone that took them on that was kind

[00:16:19] of in, you know, kind of in charge.

[00:16:21] And usually that was David because he had been tattooing for so long and he loved homework

[00:16:25] and assignments.

[00:16:25] He had people draw a flash sheet every week and like, it was really into it.

[00:16:29] Uh, and I usually, um, led by like helping me solve technical problems and, you know,

[00:16:35] like in the, um, in the room with them, you know, uh, uh, so, so yeah, um, I have, but

[00:16:41] I think what we've done with fireside means a lot more to me because it's been this, uh,

[00:16:47] uh, is because I think we've been able to have a larger impact.

[00:16:51] I think what I found going through a not great apprenticeship and then the secondary

[00:16:56] apprenticeship being kind of a, you know, um, although I had great people around me,

[00:17:00] it wasn't as structured and you would get these like different answers to the same question

[00:17:06] from different people, all these different interpretations.

[00:17:08] And so I felt like whenever I started fireside, I, I recognize the problems that apprentices

[00:17:13] have in mentorships that aren't, you know, that aren't solving all their problems.

[00:17:18] And so that, that was the, that's probably what I'm more proud of is that, um, than any

[00:17:24] help that I gave any one individual is like the, um, uh, all of the great tattooers that

[00:17:30] we've had on the show through fireside over the years who have like said the right thing

[00:17:35] at the right time and the right person heard it.

[00:17:37] You know, I hear that stuff so often where it's just like, man, the, the, the episode you

[00:17:41] did with so-and-so like opened my eyes to a thing that I was doing wrong or just something

[00:17:46] that I didn't agree with my, you know, something my mentor had been saying, but it would be the

[00:17:49] way that that person said it, you know, resonated differently.

[00:17:52] And so I think that the impact that we've been able to have just through YouTube and stuff

[00:17:56] is, um, you know, it's, it's been awesome.

[00:17:59] No, I agree.

[00:18:00] And entirely about that.

[00:18:02] Like it, it comes to a point where, well, you know, you, you, you do realize that like,

[00:18:08] uh, people need to hear it from in a certain way, from a certain person.

[00:18:13] And otherwise you're just left up to your own means, you know, throughout repetition,

[00:18:17] hacking it, but at the same time, you know, you could be, um, maximizing things that much

[00:18:23] more if you just had access.

[00:18:25] So it's great.

[00:18:26] That's awesome.

[00:18:27] It's wonderful.

[00:18:28] Yeah.

[00:18:29] Yeah.

[00:18:29] Thanks.

[00:18:30] Yeah.

[00:18:30] What was the, I'm just curious, like, uh, what was the inspiration for fireside?

[00:18:35] I like what, you know, I, I had, um, I had been listening to, um, I was in a homebrewing

[00:18:42] and I was, there was a thing called basic brewing radio.

[00:18:46] It was before they were, they were called podcasts, but he did, it was just like homebrewers

[00:18:50] talking about homebrewing.

[00:18:51] And then they started a basic brewing video where they had short little videos on homebrewing.

[00:18:55] And it caught my attention at that point that like, I could do this on tattooing probably.

[00:19:00] And this was 2005, six, seven, we didn't start fireside until 2013, but that was when the

[00:19:06] idea first kind of was planted.

[00:19:08] And then I started tattooing someone who, um, who started a podcast that really blew up

[00:19:16] in the fitness and conditioning world called a barbell shrugged.

[00:19:18] And I was tattooing them.

[00:19:20] This guy, Mike, I was doing a sleeve and he was like, uh, talking about starting a podcast.

[00:19:25] And I was like, I've heard of them, but I don't know what they are.

[00:19:27] And he was like, well, he played a Tim Ferriss podcast for me.

[00:19:30] And I was like, okay.

[00:19:31] And so we're listening to Tim Ferriss talk while we're tattooing.

[00:19:34] And, um, he was like, I'm going to start one on like Olympic weightlifting and CrossFit.

[00:19:37] And I'm like, oh, cool.

[00:19:39] And so, um, so this was a sleeve I'm working on, on him.

[00:19:42] And so each session we listened to more stuff.

[00:19:44] And then he had recorded a couple of his first episodes.

[00:19:47] And, um, I was like, uh, I wonder if they have one on pot on tattooing.

[00:19:51] And he was like, they have them on everything.

[00:19:53] All right.

[00:19:53] Like, I bet you they do.

[00:19:54] And so we start searching and there was this, um, Keith Carmelo had one called the tattoo.

[00:20:01] Not the tattoo mentor, like the tattoo.

[00:20:03] Maybe it was a tattoo mentor.

[00:20:04] I forget what it was.

[00:20:04] Forget, but it was an audio only.

[00:20:06] And he had recorded a few episodes and then kind of fallen off.

[00:20:09] It had, there was what I, by the time I found it, there hadn't been an episode in like a year.

[00:20:13] And, uh, Mike was like, you should do one.

[00:20:15] Like, I can give you a list of the stuff that I bought.

[00:20:17] I bought it at guitar center on whatever street.

[00:20:19] And he was like, I bought like three mics and this mixer and whatever.

[00:20:21] And so he gave me the list and I went down and bought it and then roped David into recording

[00:20:26] some episodes with me.

[00:20:28] And we drank a whole bottle of Jameson for the first episode.

[00:20:31] Uh, it was a shit show.

[00:20:33] And, uh, but it was fun at the end of it.

[00:20:35] People like, you know, we didn't get a lot of views or anything.

[00:20:38] Yeah.

[00:20:39] It was just cool.

[00:20:39] It was just like a way to sit down and do kind of shop talk.

[00:20:42] Um, and so, yeah, it was, that, that's kind of the way that it, you know, the way that

[00:20:46] it started and we just stuck it out.

[00:20:48] It was just, it was just David and I talking for, you know, 20 or 30 episodes.

[00:20:54] And then we were going to a convention anyways, we were going to the star of Texas, Marcy

[00:20:58] Melkins convention in Austin.

[00:21:00] And I was like, I wonder if she would let us like podcast with people there.

[00:21:05] Uh, so I reached out to her and we had tattoo booths and I was like, is there like a spot

[00:21:10] like that I could set up just to record and like do interviews with people?

[00:21:13] And she was like, you could probably just do it in like the hallways or the common areas.

[00:21:16] Right.

[00:21:16] And so I did.

[00:21:17] And of course the, the place, the, the, whatever the, um, convention center itself didn't think

[00:21:23] that was cool.

[00:21:23] So they were like constantly chasing me off.

[00:21:25] So we're like setting up someplace different every day.

[00:21:29] I don't know.

[00:21:30] I don't know.

[00:21:31] They ended up going to Marcy and saying like, Hey, you're not.

[00:21:34] Like this guy's plugging into receptacles and running cameras and stuff like that.

[00:21:39] You're going to have to pay for the, like, we rented you this room, but not the whole

[00:21:43] place.

[00:21:44] So Marcy came to me and she was like, they want like 150 bucks for you to set up right

[00:21:48] here.

[00:21:48] And I was like, okay.

[00:21:50] Can I give you 150 bucks?

[00:21:51] Yeah.

[00:21:52] I did like day two.

[00:21:53] I gave her 150 bucks.

[00:21:54] Why do they wait this long?

[00:21:55] I could have just given them the money.

[00:21:57] Yeah.

[00:21:58] Yeah.

[00:21:59] That's hilarious.

[00:22:00] We started doing like actual like interview podcasts then.

[00:22:03] And, uh, yeah, I just have no, having no idea what it was going to be.

[00:22:06] Like, I didn't know what we were, why we were doing it, you know, or, you know, there was

[00:22:10] no like, there was, there was, there was no like end goal that I was shooting for.

[00:22:15] It just seemed like something to do.

[00:22:21] Did you know that Paradise Tattoo Gathering has a scholarship fund for aspiring tattoo artists?

[00:22:27] Well, I'm here to tell you it does.

[00:22:29] This program aims to provide opportunities for those who may not be able to afford to

[00:22:35] attend the event.

[00:22:36] As Derek Youngberg of Tattoo Career Builders put it, this scholarship opportunity is for

[00:22:41] somebody who can't afford to get there.

[00:22:43] It's not just about the education.

[00:22:46] It's about the networking platform they will find when they get there.

[00:22:50] My name is Amy Nichols.

[00:22:52] And as a tattoo artist of 16 years, I can say that Paradise has been a critical part

[00:22:57] of my life as a professional.

[00:23:00] Paradise Gatherings reinvigorate and offer a space for artists who feel they have plateaued

[00:23:05] in their careers.

[00:23:06] As I said on the Fireside podcast, I feel like Paradise can give you new wings.

[00:23:12] It can connect you with people that can reinvigorate your business model and talent.

[00:23:17] This scholarship is part of the work that events like Paradise are about.

[00:23:22] It offers another example of community and giving back.

[00:23:26] Paradise has always been a place where all have been welcomed under the common dedication

[00:23:30] to excellence in tattooing.

[00:23:32] This scholarship aims to expand the Paradise mission to educate, support, and connect artists.

[00:23:38] You can play a part in supporting the future with a donation to the scholarship fund.

[00:23:43] Your contribution will be matched up to $10,000 by Coalition Tattoo Supply and Tattoo Career

[00:23:49] Builders, doubling the impact of your generosity.

[00:23:52] You can also nominate an artist to receive a scholarship or be considered for one.

[00:23:57] Whether you want to donate, nominate, or apply, please go to this web address.

[00:24:21] There is no end goal for me now.

[00:24:23] I mean, it's the same.

[00:24:26] Well, I mean, mine was the love of the medium.

[00:24:30] I should admit that the first time I came across you was not at Paradise.

[00:24:36] That's physically, yes, where we came in contact.

[00:24:39] But I was being dogged when I was starting.

[00:24:42] Because I was amazed when I started my podcast, how little, I guess because we're all kind

[00:24:52] of introverts, tattoo artists.

[00:24:55] I mean, I look at us as extrovert introverts.

[00:24:58] And man, do we have a lot to say about what we do.

[00:25:00] So I thought, oh, this is great.

[00:25:03] You know, like I could interview and especially with the premise of apprenticeships.

[00:25:07] I was like, who's going to be scared about like their beginning?

[00:25:10] Like, that's a story you can tell.

[00:25:13] It happened.

[00:25:14] I mean, yeah, it's going to be your view.

[00:25:16] And you can keep people out of it if you don't want to shout them out.

[00:25:21] But I was amazed how many people just were not, and maybe it was a me thing.

[00:25:26] I don't know.

[00:25:27] Like they were just not really savvy about me doing it.

[00:25:31] And I was doing it for a lot of reasons because I, like I said, I hate technology.

[00:25:36] I really don't like it.

[00:25:38] And the tinkering thing, I'm trying to be better at it, but I'm not.

[00:25:42] And so I wanted to confront that because I noticed that people who are good at it usually

[00:25:47] have kids and they usually have to get good at it because their kid like brings them something

[00:25:51] and they're like, oh shit, what is this?

[00:25:54] I just want to keep up with it to keep up with their kid.

[00:25:57] And I'm like, well, I don't have kids.

[00:25:58] So I have to do this.

[00:25:58] So I started it and then they were like, they kept telling me about, you know, open

[00:26:05] books podcasts and your podcast.

[00:26:08] And they're like, have you looked at them?

[00:26:09] And I'm like, no assholes.

[00:26:11] I'm not.

[00:26:12] I've listened to, I know what a podcast is.

[00:26:14] Okay.

[00:26:15] Like I'm doing my own thing, you know?

[00:26:17] And that was the thing for me was that like a big thing about what I found, especially nowadays,

[00:26:24] because I feel like social media has grown so much and it's very inundating.

[00:26:31] And there's so many different things going on, things that you definitely want to shut

[00:26:36] out and have to take breaks from.

[00:26:38] But one thing I loved about apprenticeship and that I miss, and that I wish that people

[00:26:43] would really, really pay attention to is, and I don't know if it's different now because

[00:26:50] of cell phones and everything, but in my time, that joy of just being single-minded, like

[00:26:57] putting blinders up to everything else and just like really focusing.

[00:27:01] And you can't make, if you're watching everybody else's shit, like you can't.

[00:27:08] And the whole like find your style thing, it's like, okay, well focus on a goal and go after

[00:27:15] it and turn the rest of the noise off.

[00:27:18] Like you can get on the internet, but go in there with a single mind of focus to create

[00:27:22] something, you know, you can draw influence from here, here and here and here.

[00:27:26] But if I'm off there, like, you know, listening to you constantly, all I'm going to be is like

[00:27:31] a poor man's Jake.

[00:27:32] And I was like, you don't care.

[00:27:34] I don't care.

[00:27:36] I don't, I know what I'm doing.

[00:27:38] I don't even care if it's tattoo centric.

[00:27:41] Right.

[00:27:42] Really?

[00:27:43] I don't even like half of you.

[00:27:47] So that was my whole perspective.

[00:27:50] Yeah.

[00:27:50] Yeah.

[00:27:51] Yeah.

[00:27:52] But yeah, I did meet you there and it was 2013 ish.

[00:27:57] I remember 14, I think 14 or 15 for me.

[00:28:00] Yeah.

[00:28:02] I, I, I, I completely agree.

[00:28:04] I don't listen to a lot of like tattoo stuff.

[00:28:06] I will zip past and I don't know why it's something in my own mind, but there are newer podcasts

[00:28:11] that are putting clips out on, on, you know, like on Instagram, the same way that we are.

[00:28:15] And like, I instantly recognize that their production value looks cleaner, that they like everything.

[00:28:20] And I won't even listen to what they're trying to say.

[00:28:22] I'll like zip past it as fast as I can.

[00:28:24] And it's like, why, like, why, why don't I want to hear what they have to say?

[00:28:27] I like, cause I'm intimidated because they're, cause their camera looks better than my camera.

[00:28:31] I don't like, I don't know why it's like, are they saying smarter stuff than me?

[00:28:35] They're half my age.

[00:28:36] I guarantee you, they don't have the tattoo, like, like experience, you know?

[00:28:40] But the, but for whatever reason, I don't know why is it past it.

[00:28:43] Russ Abbott told me years ago, whenever he was one of the early people that I reached out to

[00:28:47] when I started fireside, we weren't friends.

[00:28:49] I met him because of fireside.

[00:28:52] He was doing the Abbott color wheel around the time that I was doing fireside.

[00:28:55] And I reached out and offered to like do a podcast episode with him or whatever.

[00:28:58] And we were talking, I was talking about some episode that I had put out recently.

[00:29:03] And I'd asked if he had seen it.

[00:29:05] And he was like, I don't, um, I don't listen to anything that you, that you put out.

[00:29:10] Um, because, uh, we're both like entrepreneurial and I'm, and I'm afraid if you say something

[00:29:17] about one of your ideas that I've already probably already thought about that as well.

[00:29:22] And I don't want you to think that I'm like ripping you off whenever I do it.

[00:29:24] So I'd just rather not ever know that you had the idea.

[00:29:27] Yeah.

[00:29:27] And I remember just thinking like, well, that's shitty, man.

[00:29:29] Like, why can't we like share ideas?

[00:29:31] But I get it.

[00:29:32] Like, yeah, same thing, you know, like I zip past them probably for that reason.

[00:29:35] It's like, oh, I don't want them to have a perspective that I, that I have or slightly

[00:29:38] different.

[00:29:39] And then somehow we're, I don't know, like I'm ripping them off or something, you know?

[00:29:43] Well, there's an authenticity to the, to the moment too.

[00:29:45] I do know for myself that when it comes to learning, um, a lot of my learning comes from having

[00:29:52] this kind of connection with somebody like, like sitting down with you, taking this time,

[00:29:57] asking you questions.

[00:29:59] Those are the kinds of things that will mental map it for me more than, than anything else,

[00:30:05] you know?

[00:30:05] Like, and I don't know.

[00:30:08] I look at a lot of art.

[00:30:10] I thought about going to a podcast, like a convention.

[00:30:13] Have you ever done that?

[00:30:14] I've never done one.

[00:30:15] I've, I've, I've thought about doing them.

[00:30:17] Uh, there are quite a few of them, a few really big ones.

[00:30:20] Yeah.

[00:30:20] If you ever want to do one, I think that'd be fun to do together.

[00:30:24] That'd be fun.

[00:30:24] Yeah.

[00:30:25] Um, because I, I know that would probably scale it for me quite a lot.

[00:30:29] Um, just to kind of, because that's how it's been with paradise and, and those kinds

[00:30:33] of educational spaces is that like, it's so concentrated.

[00:30:38] Um, when I'm, when I'm experiencing things for entertainment, it's, it's a weird headspace

[00:30:44] I'm in.

[00:30:44] I don't, I'm not really looking there for notes.

[00:30:47] I'm looking there for like my own shit.

[00:30:50] Yeah.

[00:30:51] Yeah.

[00:30:52] Maybe it's the whole thing.

[00:30:53] Like you said, like we kind of get in our own way when it comes to learning, like we

[00:30:56] should know more, but we, we want to figure it out ourselves.

[00:30:59] You know?

[00:31:00] I don't know.

[00:31:01] Maybe that's us.

[00:31:02] Yeah.

[00:31:03] Yeah.

[00:31:03] Yeah.

[00:31:04] As, as, as adverse as I am to like accidentally getting information from other tattooers about

[00:31:09] tattooing, like tattoo, other tattoo podcasts, whatever it is.

[00:31:12] I'm completely open ears to every other medium and thing that I'm interested in to figure out

[00:31:17] how I can pull it into tattooing.

[00:31:18] So I'm still like completely taking stuff from woodworking shows that I watch and from

[00:31:22] everything else that I'm into in the world, fishing, everything else.

[00:31:25] And I would just be like, Oh, that's a cool idea.

[00:31:27] I wonder how I could do that for fireside.

[00:31:29] I wonder if I could like find a way to relate that idea to tattooing.

[00:31:33] Um, that's where find your style, you know, that whole seminar simplify and find your style

[00:31:37] both came from like, I didn't invent any of them.

[00:31:39] It's like painting stuff, illustrative stuff, woodworking stuff.

[00:31:44] It's just like a hodgepodge of stuff that I just grabbed from other places and then put

[00:31:48] it through my tattooers filter, you know?

[00:31:50] Yeah, no.

[00:31:51] And that's a great way to do it because I mean, that's what we ask our clients to do, you

[00:31:56] know, like go make a visual map of things, you know, share your Pinterest file with me.

[00:32:01] I want to see what you look at and what you like.

[00:32:02] And, you know, that'll let me know if I'm the right fit.

[00:32:06] If, you know, like I'll get to see a little bit of what you're attracted to, you know,

[00:32:10] because that, that's also the thing.

[00:32:12] I mean, my stuff, I don't know.

[00:32:16] I, I get a lot of influence from my clients.

[00:32:18] Um, I really liked the, um, uh, the, the, I went into tattooing thing.

[00:32:25] I was going to do my art for a living, but what I found was, is that I, I, I don't, I

[00:32:32] don't have a lot of comfort doing that.

[00:32:33] Um, I don't have a lot of comfort doing my art.

[00:32:36] I'll put my skill to their idea, but I, and it's art and it's a commercial application

[00:32:45] of art.

[00:32:46] Um, but all of it comes from them.

[00:32:48] And I really like using their, their visual map and their visual ideas.

[00:32:54] They come with some crazy ideas, man.

[00:32:56] Like, and I'm just like, Oh, like I had somebody that gave me like 15 things and they're like,

[00:33:01] you get my whole leg.

[00:33:02] And I was like, that's a lot of shit to put in one leg, but I'm going to figure it out,

[00:33:06] man.

[00:33:08] Yeah.

[00:33:08] But yeah.

[00:33:10] Um, I love that stuff because that's kind of how I take on my tattoo projects is that

[00:33:15] like, okay, they said they like this.

[00:33:17] They said they like this color, these things, let's like map it all together.

[00:33:21] And it's like finding their brand within the art sticks.

[00:33:25] But I think it helps grow my style.

[00:33:28] And I also think it helps it make sure that it's never replicated.

[00:33:32] Um, yeah, yeah.

[00:33:34] Yeah.

[00:33:35] But yeah, I love, I love that seminar.

[00:33:38] It's a great seminar.

[00:33:39] Yeah.

[00:33:40] Thank you.

[00:33:40] I appreciate it.

[00:33:41] This.

[00:33:42] Oh, I'm sorry.

[00:33:43] It's changed.

[00:33:44] It's evolved.

[00:33:45] It's, I do it different every single time that I, that I do it.

[00:33:48] It's become a lot more audience interactive the last five or six times I've done it.

[00:33:52] And I like that.

[00:33:52] That's the direction I want to go.

[00:33:53] I want people answering questions and talking within the first like three minutes, uh, so that

[00:33:58] we don't like, so they don't, you know, I want to introduce my basic ideas.

[00:34:02] Uh, and I want, you know, maybe you might, you might remember that.

[00:34:04] I pull up two very similar artists and I put them side by side and I say like, these guys

[00:34:08] are both working in bio organic.

[00:34:10] These guys are both illustrative.

[00:34:11] These two are this.

[00:34:12] And then it's like, what's different about them?

[00:34:14] And we start to pick apart what's different about them.

[00:34:16] Uh, and I just, I try to get to that stuff as fast as possible because it allows me,

[00:34:20] I do find probably better even maybe from podcasting.

[00:34:23] Uh, uh, I'm terrible at staying on my script in my, in my slides.

[00:34:27] Like if I'm going through and trying to do a presentation, I'll go off in my own direction,

[00:34:32] just talking and then realize like, Oh, I'm four slides behind.

[00:34:36] But if, uh, but if I just start a conversation and people are coming back to me, I can move

[00:34:42] through everything seamlessly.

[00:34:45] I like the, it's the internet, it's the back and forth that I do so much better than the

[00:34:48] presentation.

[00:34:49] And so, um, so yeah, that's been the thing with find your style.

[00:34:52] It's like, how do I get people involved early?

[00:34:55] Answering questions early.

[00:34:56] I think that helps, like, like I said, like it helps them remember it better too.

[00:35:02] Um, that's the point of a classroom setting as opposed to just listening to a podcast.

[00:35:06] Yeah.

[00:35:07] Right.

[00:35:08] You're there.

[00:35:09] And they, they help you.

[00:35:11] They, you know, that approach helps you to evolve your presentation because you're talking

[00:35:15] to a room of professional artists.

[00:35:17] They have ideas that you don't have.

[00:35:19] They have response.

[00:35:19] Like when I say what's different between time and Q and a guy sitting in these two pieces,

[00:35:23] um, most of the stuff that I regurgitate now came from someone answering in a different

[00:35:28] way than I anticipated.

[00:35:29] I'm like, Oh yeah, that's good.

[00:35:31] Like, well, let's go with that.

[00:35:33] You know?

[00:35:33] And so, you know, that's the cool thing is like, they're there to take my seminar,

[00:35:37] but that's a room full of people who draw for a living.

[00:35:40] So why can't I get something from them?

[00:35:42] You know?

[00:35:42] No, absolutely.

[00:35:43] I mean, everybody's getting something out of it.

[00:35:45] Right.

[00:35:45] Like, and I think that's, um, the beautiful thing about the mentor mentee relationship

[00:35:50] is that you get to find out what, you know, as the mentor and as the mentee, you, you

[00:35:54] get to learn and you can share a lot of insights between each other.

[00:35:58] That's really cool.

[00:35:59] If you're, you know, connected to that, that's awesome.

[00:36:02] Yeah.

[00:36:02] Yeah.

[00:36:03] And then this year you're doing one on simplification.

[00:36:07] Yeah.

[00:36:07] I've done this with only once it's, it's actually a course that you can buy it on our

[00:36:11] website, simplify, but I'm trying to make it alive kind of presentation as well.

[00:36:17] Uh, and it's a little more, uh, it's more advanced.

[00:36:21] I think it's for people who have been tattooing for a while and maybe have hit a wall.

[00:36:25] And it's essentially just my process for, um, it's built around the idea that no one solves

[00:36:32] a problem by adding, by adding complexity.

[00:36:34] You solve a problem by simplifying it, you know, to it's like, you know, the most basic

[00:36:38] kind of form and then building it back up from there.

[00:36:40] And so I just use if then scenarios from the consultation all the way out.

[00:36:45] You know, what do I notice about the person when they come in the door?

[00:36:48] What are they shaped like?

[00:36:49] What does their voice sound like?

[00:36:51] What do we talk about?

[00:36:51] And I like, and I just have simple ways where it's like, you know, just if then scenarios

[00:36:56] that I'm just playing in my own mind through the process.

[00:37:00] And so now I'm going to, I'm going to update the online or the actual course a little bit.

[00:37:05] All of my courses are not there.

[00:37:08] Well, I say all they're only two foundations and simplifier are two main kind of flagship

[00:37:12] courses.

[00:37:12] And you don't, I don't tattoo in either of them.

[00:37:15] And they're, they're drawing for tattooers courses.

[00:37:18] So I take simplify all the way from consultation to stencil on skin.

[00:37:23] But I don't do the tattooing part.

[00:37:25] And I've been talking to Gabe and Dan a little bit about it, who helped me a lot with fireside

[00:37:30] about like, well, why don't it's at this point in time today, there's so many people teaching

[00:37:35] tattooing.

[00:37:36] If you see your 10 masters stuff pop up or tattooing one-on-one, all the, they're all

[00:37:40] teaching physical tattooing, three round liners, seven and a half volts.

[00:37:43] I don't know.

[00:37:44] All that stuff's on constantly.

[00:37:45] It's like, people obviously want to know it.

[00:37:47] I don't know that it's as useful as they think it is, but, um, to watch someone else to,

[00:37:53] to use their needle configurations or whatever.

[00:37:55] But, um, but I do think that I could do the tattoo from simplify.

[00:38:01] Like I could add two more modules and say, all right, we've gotten all the way to stencil

[00:38:04] on the skin.

[00:38:05] Now I'm just going to film the tattoo and at least have, you know, add some tattooing

[00:38:09] to it.

[00:38:09] I was, I was, I was hesitant.

[00:38:12] I kind of stayed away from that for a long time.

[00:38:15] Cause I didn't want to teach tattooing, uh, you know, but, uh, uh, but I think I'm going

[00:38:20] to give in and go.

[00:38:22] So someone out there is going to get the tattoo from simplify for free.

[00:38:25] I'm going to discuss.

[00:38:25] They just have to let me put it where I want it.

[00:38:27] And, uh, let me film it.

[00:38:30] Yeah.

[00:38:30] All right.

[00:38:30] That's really cool.

[00:38:31] That's really, really cool.

[00:38:32] I love that.

[00:38:33] Uh, that's good to put out, uh, too, you know?

[00:38:36] Yeah.

[00:38:37] Let me know if you want, if you're, if you're interested in, I need a back of a cat.

[00:38:39] I need a clean back of a calf.

[00:38:41] I'm clean back of a calf.

[00:38:42] Yeah.

[00:38:43] And I'll share the design.

[00:38:44] Uh, it's a cool, cool Raven.

[00:38:47] It's nice.

[00:38:48] Right on.

[00:38:49] That's pretty dope.

[00:38:50] I love that.

[00:38:51] That's good to know.

[00:38:51] Are you advertising for it right now?

[00:38:53] I haven't.

[00:38:54] That's first of all, you haven't said it.

[00:38:55] Oh, cool.

[00:38:56] I've just been, I've just been thinking it.

[00:38:57] I've said it to Dan and Gabe, uh, in one of our fireside meetings.

[00:39:00] Like, I think I'm just going to do these, the foundations tattoo and the simplify tattoo.

[00:39:04] They're both birds.

[00:39:05] Very cool.

[00:39:06] So no, I like that.

[00:39:07] I mean, you know, it covers, it covers everything, right?

[00:39:11] Like, um, you know, I've, I'm a very, I'm a, I'm a very process oriented learner and somebody

[00:39:19] who likes to be tactile and get my hands in it.

[00:39:22] There's really only so much I can get from, from auditory things.

[00:39:26] Like, I really do think that the dedication to be a failure has like, well, to be okay with

[00:39:33] being a failure is what has worked in my, my favor.

[00:39:37] Yeah.

[00:39:38] Yeah.

[00:39:38] And I've always really enjoyed the, the, um, the more psychological or more process oriented

[00:39:45] seminars personally, just because for me, that, uh, I don't know, like that's, that's

[00:39:52] the nice sharing stuff.

[00:39:53] I do feel like that when you get into tattooing, um, you figure it out.

[00:39:58] Like, I mean, you, you can really feel it.

[00:40:00] Like you can, you can feel the materials, you can feel how it's supposed to be after a

[00:40:04] while, but I guess it gets, you know, it, it can get there faster, I guess.

[00:40:09] I mean, I don't know.

[00:40:10] I, I, I learned in a time where they were like, here, here are these things.

[00:40:14] This is how it's supposed to be.

[00:40:15] And you're doing it wrong.

[00:40:17] Like, you know, like, um, so I guess, you know, with tattooing, it would, it would, uh,

[00:40:23] it would scale things.

[00:40:24] I've had a lot of people ask, like, why aren't you more technical?

[00:40:26] And I'm like, cause I don't really know.

[00:40:28] I don't really, I don't, I don't even know if I know what I'm doing technically.

[00:40:33] What am I using again?

[00:40:35] Yeah.

[00:40:37] Um, but yeah, like I, I, I sounds like a great seminar.

[00:40:40] It really does.

[00:40:41] I'm excited about it.

[00:40:43] I mean, I'm going to paradise.

[00:40:44] I'm, I'm tattooing this year though.

[00:40:46] So I'm like, Oh, okay.

[00:40:47] Gotcha.

[00:40:48] Yeah.

[00:40:49] Yeah.

[00:40:49] Well, it's, it's included with the day.

[00:40:51] I'm going to do it on the main stage.

[00:40:52] So it's a, it's a free seminar.

[00:40:53] It's included with the four day pass.

[00:40:55] So anyone who's coming can come watch it.

[00:40:57] Awesome.

[00:40:58] And then the, the tattooing aspect of it would be recorded.

[00:41:02] Yeah.

[00:41:02] So that's part, that's for the course that already exists so that, yeah, I'll give it.

[00:41:06] Um, I don't know how I'll do that for, for paradise.

[00:41:09] I probably will just do it, you know, the existing way, but what I don't know about it

[00:41:12] as opposed to find your style is I don't know how to get the audience involvement in

[00:41:16] that one.

[00:41:17] There's not as much built in.

[00:41:19] There aren't as many easy ways to, to get the audience involved.

[00:41:22] So I'll, uh, I'll probably do it in front of the mirror, in front of my family

[00:41:26] and see where I can start to get people involved.

[00:41:29] We'll figure it out.

[00:41:30] That's awesome.

[00:41:30] That's awesome.

[00:41:32] What's your, um, what's your, uh, uh, life like right now?

[00:41:38] Like, what are you, I mean, that's one thing that you're doing.

[00:41:41] Like what's next?

[00:41:42] Is there any goals, any things that are coming up?

[00:41:45] Yeah, I'm still, um, uh, I just put out this, uh, this documentary called flow with, with

[00:41:52] Dave Kohnig, where we went and spent, we spent a week with them.

[00:41:55] And, um, I was excited to put it out because it's different.

[00:41:58] It's not a podcast.

[00:41:58] It was meant to be more of a, you know, like a documentary.

[00:42:01] Of course, I've never done anything like that before.

[00:42:03] I'm not a documentarian, which when I showed all the rough cuts to people, they made it

[00:42:07] very clear that I was not a documentarian.

[00:42:09] They're like, yeah, it looks like a podcaster trying to do a documentary.

[00:42:12] But, um, but I think it came together pretty decently and I would like to do a few more

[00:42:17] of those, um, on where I go and actually spend some time with someone and get into their

[00:42:21] life a little more and get into their processes outside of just sitting down and talking about

[00:42:26] tattooing in a podcast format.

[00:42:28] Um, you know, I enjoy like getting all the B-roll and getting like, you know, meeting their

[00:42:32] families and getting all the behind the scenes stuff and all the stuff, other stuff they

[00:42:36] do.

[00:42:36] Um, so in that I'll, I'll be looking probably for partners.

[00:42:40] I did this one on my own and I did all the editing on my own, which, um, I'm glad I got

[00:42:44] the experience, but I need a post-production team.

[00:42:47] I can't do it.

[00:42:47] And so I'll, um, I'll have to raise money for it.

[00:42:50] I don't know, um, whether I'm going to do that by like funding it through fire, the fireside

[00:42:56] audience or whether I'll reach out to actual like sponsors, suppliers, whatever, and do

[00:43:01] it.

[00:43:01] But I'd like to, that's something else I'd like to do maybe three or four of those a

[00:43:04] year.

[00:43:05] Uh, and, um, that's one thing, of course, I'm still a full-time tattooer.

[00:43:09] I would say full-time I tattoo three days a week, but it's three long days a week.

[00:43:14] Yeah.

[00:43:14] Uh, so it's a private studio.

[00:43:18] Yeah.

[00:43:18] Yeah.

[00:43:19] I'm in a private studio.

[00:43:20] Um, and say, I've got a good clientele and, and we were, I worked from noon until six

[00:43:25] 30 or seven, uh, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday each week.

[00:43:28] And, um, and I, I have, um, my wife and I have a, like a real estate business.

[00:43:33] We have a lot of rental property here in Memphis.

[00:43:35] And so she manages the day to day of that, but there are a few projects that we're working

[00:43:40] at and that I'm in the middle right now finished or just finishing up what we're calling a

[00:43:43] flex space, basically trying to build, um, I never built anything.

[00:43:47] I'm just buy houses and run them out.

[00:43:48] So I had an empty lot and we ended up building this, uh, big metal building that we're going

[00:43:53] to insulate and heat and cool.

[00:43:55] And, uh, and, um, we're going to rent it out.

[00:43:58] I was going to keep it and use it myself, but I don't know what I need it for.

[00:44:01] I just feel like I wanted a big building.

[00:44:02] Sounds like a great place to grow mushrooms.

[00:44:05] Probably could grow mushrooms.

[00:44:06] Yeah.

[00:44:06] Yeah.

[00:44:07] Sounds like a great place to grow mushrooms.

[00:44:09] You got to keep it real sterile, but it sounds like a good place to grow mushrooms.

[00:44:15] That's where my mind went.

[00:44:17] Yeah.

[00:44:17] I don't know what we're going to do with them.

[00:44:19] Well, I wanted to build one just to see what it was going to be like.

[00:44:21] Uh, it's almost finished.

[00:44:22] So now I have to figure out whether we're going to rent it, sell it or use it.

[00:44:25] Uh, and then if, and then I think we're going to try to build like a little complex of them.

[00:44:29] We're going to try to find some, uh, commercial land and build like eight of them and gate it

[00:44:33] and, you know, make it secure and all that.

[00:44:35] And either rent it depending on the area area as artist spaces, if it were midtown Memphis

[00:44:39] or small, um, commercial, like HVAC painting, whatever, if it's in different areas.

[00:44:44] But so I don't know, we're just always trying to, I just like to stay entertained, you know?

[00:44:48] So I'm like, uh, get up.

[00:44:50] And it's like, if a business seems like it's boring and things are going wrong with it or

[00:44:53] not going wrong with it, but if it's like the monotony of doing the same thing with it,

[00:44:57] it's like, well, how do we shake it up?

[00:44:59] Like it's supposed to be fun.

[00:45:00] Right.

[00:45:01] What's the point?

[00:45:02] Why don't we take all the, all the risk of like, if I, if I want to do boring stuff,

[00:45:06] I just go get a paycheck and do boring stuff and be guaranteed a paycheck.

[00:45:10] Like, you know, exactly.

[00:45:11] Like I don't want to do boring stuff and take the chance of not making money.

[00:45:15] So exactly, exactly.

[00:45:17] Absolutely.

[00:45:17] No, I love that perspective.

[00:45:19] I love it.

[00:45:20] Um, that's very cool.

[00:45:22] Well, if people want to work with you or get, you do an interview or anything like that,

[00:45:29] what are the best ways to contact you?

[00:45:31] The easiest thing is probably, um, we, uh, we use gay, Gabe Ripley has us on this one

[00:45:37] box system.

[00:45:38] So everything ends up in one place.

[00:45:39] So however you used to, I would say, don't DM me or whatever, but now it all goes to the

[00:45:43] same place.

[00:45:44] So Instagram, I'm plug ugly art or fireside tattoo, uh, and you know, Facebook or fireside

[00:45:50] tattoo.

[00:45:50] Um, but, um, uh, info at firesidetattoo.com, uh, is, uh, is the email and I have a great

[00:45:57] assistant.

[00:45:57] Her name is Allie and she's been with me for five or six years and she's on the

[00:46:00] ball.

[00:46:01] Yeah.

[00:46:01] She, she answers everything and, and like screenshots and sends me things all the time.

[00:46:06] So I like, I'm, I don't miss stuff like I used to.

[00:46:09] She's, she's really good.

[00:46:10] Phenomenal.

[00:46:11] Phenomenal.

[00:46:11] Do we miss anything or is there anything we didn't talk about that you might want to

[00:46:16] talk about or share?

[00:46:17] I mean, you had a, you had a great, I feel like you had a great run in, in tattooing.

[00:46:25] I mean, uh, very similar to me.

[00:46:28] I mean, a lot of things that I think people could correlate to the timeline and stuff.

[00:46:32] It doesn't sound like you had a lot of hazing.

[00:46:34] Um, or anything bad.

[00:46:36] Yeah.

[00:46:37] Yeah.

[00:46:37] It was, it wasn't bad.

[00:46:38] I mean, I wasn't, it wasn't like mapped out perfectly or anything like that, but it,

[00:46:43] you know, uh, I think we kind of, I think we hit it all thing.

[00:46:46] You know, it was, uh, probably a pretty typical apprenticeship for the mid nineties.

[00:46:49] Yeah.

[00:46:50] You know, probably not that different.

[00:46:52] So, well, and I feel like, uh, you know, I feel like you were really meant to always

[00:46:56] be here, Jake.

[00:46:58] Like, um, because it seems like a lot of things were like, Oh, Oh.

[00:47:04] And like that, it is like finding your style, your life kind of culminated to a lot of these

[00:47:09] kind of, I can see your whole seminar kind of, and how you move throughout your life.

[00:47:13] And like, somebody was like, look at this.

[00:47:15] And like, I was listening to this and then I did this and yeah.

[00:47:18] So it's pretty cool.

[00:47:19] Very authentic.

[00:47:20] I love it.

[00:47:21] Well, thanks.

[00:47:22] I appreciate it.

[00:47:23] Definitely.

[00:47:23] I appreciate the invite.

[00:47:24] I enjoyed the conversation.

[00:47:25] Hell yeah, man.

[00:47:26] Well, I don't want to keep you too much longer.

[00:47:27] I, um, I, I just appreciate this time so much.

[00:47:31] It's really, really cool.

[00:47:32] And, uh, yeah, thanks.

[00:47:33] Me too.

[00:47:34] Definitely.

[00:47:35] Let me, let me, uh, let me know when it comes out.

[00:47:37] I'll be happy to, to push it.

[00:47:40] Oh yeah.

[00:47:41] Absolutely.

[00:47:41] Well, have a great rest of your day.

[00:47:42] Enjoy post-workout and the rest in your family.

[00:47:45] Thank them for me.

[00:47:47] They let me borrow you for a bit.

[00:47:49] Yeah.

[00:47:49] It's a pretty, yeah.

[00:47:50] Decent time.

[00:47:51] Well, thanks.

[00:47:52] I'm looking forward to seeing you in October.

[00:47:54] Definitely, man.

[00:47:55] Bye-bye.

[00:47:56] Bye.

[00:47:58] Okay.

[00:47:59] Everybody that wraps it with Jake Meeks of Fireside Tattoo.

[00:48:04] Be sure to go over and listen to Fireside.

[00:48:08] Uh, uh, of course we always appreciate your listening time here, but, uh,

[00:48:12] uh, uh, as I explored in this podcast with Jake, uh, he, he is quite a name in the podcast

[00:48:20] space.

[00:48:20] And, uh, I think you do yourself a disservice.

[00:48:23] He knows a lot more people than me.

[00:48:26] He's been doing it a lot longer than me.

[00:48:27] And, uh, this, this podcast has its own, its own space.

[00:48:32] Um, but his is definitely about the people he interviews and what they are doing and their

[00:48:41] tips and tricks.

[00:48:42] So it's, it's very cool.

[00:48:44] Uh, so make sure to go over there.

[00:48:46] The one thing I didn't ask him that I really wish I would have is why he calls his Instagram

[00:48:52] handle Plug Ugly Art.

[00:48:54] I should have asked it.

[00:48:55] Like, I'm mad at myself that I didn't, I want to know.

[00:48:59] I'm sure there's a story behind it.

[00:49:01] Um, his work is stunning, so it, it makes no sense, but it is cute and it is funny.

[00:49:07] And I, and I do like the humility of it.

[00:49:09] So, um, high marks there, but I, I didn't ask and I feel like a failure as a interviewer.

[00:49:16] So, Jake, I'm sorry.

[00:49:18] Um, and, and listeners, I'm sorry.

[00:49:21] That might've been a, that might've been a question you had.

[00:49:25] Anyway, listeners, I really hope that you have a powerful week.

[00:49:29] Uh, Jake, I will see you in paradise.

[00:49:31] God willing, uh, we'll all make it there.

[00:49:33] For those listening that think that they might not be able to swing it financially, please

[00:49:37] know that there is a scholarship fund for you.

[00:49:39] Just go and apply.

[00:49:41] Um, we, we have stated it a couple times on the IG and it is listed on the main website,

[00:49:48] but, uh, I'm going to attempt to tell you the direct link right now.

[00:49:53] So it's HTTPS colon forward slash forward slash paradise dot tattoo gathering dot com

[00:50:03] forward slash paradise dash scholarship.

[00:50:08] Man, that was like a tongue twister.

[00:50:10] And, uh, I know I said it pretty quickly.

[00:50:13] Like I said, you should be able to find it at, uh, tattoo gathering dot com.

[00:50:18] Uh, we have, we have a couple direct links there, but I just wanted to give you the direct link

[00:50:23] so that you could hope to get there.

[00:50:26] Please apply.

[00:50:27] If you know somebody that should apply, but they never do it for themselves, you can nominate

[00:50:31] them and you can donate to it.

[00:50:34] So if you're somebody who likes to give back and, uh, you run a really good mission to do

[00:50:39] that with paradise is top notch.

[00:50:42] So please visit that link and, uh, and apply yourself to it in whatever way you feel inspired.

[00:50:51] All right, everybody have a great week.

[00:50:54] God bless you all.

[00:50:55] I'll, uh, God willing catch you next week.

[00:50:59] Later.

[00:51:03] Thanks for listening.

[00:51:04] You can find the apprenticeship diaries on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.

[00:51:08] Our IG is the underscore apprenticeship underscore diaries.

[00:51:12] If you would like to offer constructive criticism or an interview, drop us an email at

[00:51:17] theapprenticeshipdiaries at gmail.com.

[00:51:19] We look forward to hearing from our listeners.