Ep. 225 "Next Chapter" (A Diary Entry with Miss Vampira (Mary))

[00:00:00] Hello, diary listeners. Happy Tuesday. I'm very excited to have this next chapter and that is what we're calling Miss Vampira's basically diary entry for today. This is a touch base with my friend Mary. She's been on the show before. Bear with the very first part of this audio. We did not want to have a repeat from last time, her last episode.

[00:00:27] We're just dealing with dodgy audio and we do figure it out. But like the very beginning of this, it kind of freaks you out. You're like, oh my God, are we in for this for the rest of the time? No, you are not. We figure it out. It sounds a lot better as the interview goes on. And I'm so very happy because what's next in Mary's life is amazing. So celebrate with us today and enjoy listeners.

[00:00:54] Welcome to The Apprenticeship Diaries, where raw meets refined.

[00:00:57] Let's be real. We're still working on refined.

[00:01:00] What it took, what it takes, and the stories that are made.

[00:01:03] Join us as we learn from professionals about how their stories begin.

[00:01:10] We're just gonna, we're just gonna go.

[00:01:13] Do it. Can you hear me?

[00:01:15] Yeah.

[00:01:16] Yeah.

[00:01:16] Okay, cool.

[00:01:17] Yeah.

[00:01:17] All right. Oh my God, it's been so long.

[00:01:20] I know, you look beautiful and your new house from what I can tell is gorgeous.

[00:01:24] It's, yeah, it's definitely making me so much happier.

[00:01:28] Oh good.

[00:01:30] Than being in the city.

[00:01:31] Try without them because honestly, it might be better.

[00:01:35] Try that for a second.

[00:01:36] Just speak. Let me see.

[00:01:38] Let me see.

[00:01:39] Say hi.

[00:01:40] Like just putting, let me see if I can do it without the little thing.

[00:01:47] Yeah.

[00:01:48] Like I have to like get custom ear pods or something like that.

[00:01:51] Okay, this should be good.

[00:01:52] I, yes, I can hear you good now.

[00:01:54] Okay, cool.

[00:01:55] And so do you think like they'll just pop right up?

[00:01:58] All right.

[00:01:59] Anyway, sorry.

[00:02:00] Here we go.

[00:02:01] No worries.

[00:02:02] No worries.

[00:02:04] I'm so excited.

[00:02:05] I know.

[00:02:06] Me too.

[00:02:07] Well, I just wanted to announce you because people are not going to know who the heck this

[00:02:11] is.

[00:02:12] Oh, that's true.

[00:02:12] That's true.

[00:02:13] Yes.

[00:02:14] Miss Vampira is back.

[00:02:16] Phase two.

[00:02:16] I'm so happy to be here.

[00:02:19] But Mary, you know.

[00:02:21] Yeah, exactly.

[00:02:23] To my client.

[00:02:24] Yeah.

[00:02:24] It's Mary.

[00:02:26] Officially an actual tattoo artist now.

[00:02:29] You were one before.

[00:02:31] Oh, I appreciate that.

[00:02:32] Yeah.

[00:02:33] Yeah.

[00:02:33] You were really good.

[00:02:34] You're, you are still really good getting better all the time, but you were really good.

[00:02:39] That means a lot.

[00:02:40] I feel like.

[00:02:42] Yeah, that means a lot.

[00:02:45] Well, it's true.

[00:02:46] I mean, very clean.

[00:02:47] You can tell it was, uh, you know, you're very dedicated.

[00:02:52] Yeah.

[00:02:52] I still am trying, you know, trying to push myself.

[00:02:56] I don't know why the, the audio is still like, I want like a superior audio because last time

[00:03:03] it wasn't so great.

[00:03:04] Do you want me to put on my actual air?

[00:03:06] Like try them?

[00:03:07] Yes.

[00:03:08] Okay.

[00:03:08] Well, cause look at me.

[00:03:10] I mean, the audience can't tell, but I, I got my big old.

[00:03:18] You guys, you, I'm, you should see just how cute this is.

[00:03:23] Like her house is beautiful.

[00:03:25] She's beautiful.

[00:03:28] Ah, is this better?

[00:03:30] Oh my God.

[00:03:30] Yes.

[00:03:31] Okay.

[00:03:32] Okay.

[00:03:32] Cool.

[00:03:33] All right.

[00:03:33] Fuck your fuck.

[00:03:36] I literally like on the train, I'm like walking and they just go.

[00:03:41] Oh, and I'm like, there it goes.

[00:03:43] No, those are great.

[00:03:45] Okay.

[00:03:46] Perfect.

[00:03:46] Awesome.

[00:03:46] All right.

[00:03:47] Yeah.

[00:03:47] Yeah.

[00:03:48] Yeah.

[00:03:48] Yeah.

[00:03:49] So we're catching up.

[00:03:51] Yeah.

[00:03:52] Lots have happened.

[00:03:54] I know.

[00:03:55] It's so wild.

[00:03:57] Tell me all about it.

[00:03:59] I just remember the last time I was there and I tried to go listen to our last episode,

[00:04:04] but it's not there anymore.

[00:04:05] And I was so cringed out at myself that I didn't listen to it when it came out.

[00:04:09] So I'm like, I don't even know what I said, but I kind of remember.

[00:04:13] I'll send it to you because I have it on Podbean, but like, you know, I'm not premier

[00:04:18] enough to be like on the later levels on like Spotify and things like that.

[00:04:22] They just cache old ones, but I can send you the link to the RSS feed.

[00:04:26] Yeah.

[00:04:26] Be nice to like hear it again.

[00:04:28] Cause I literally did not listen to it.

[00:04:29] It had to be like years later and I'm like, okay.

[00:04:32] But I was like, oh my God, I can't believe it's been that long.

[00:04:35] And then I see that you're doing such amazing things.

[00:04:38] Like your podcast was, we, when we first talked, you were just starting, which was amazing.

[00:04:43] And now you're just skyrocketed, which I love.

[00:04:46] I love that you see it that way.

[00:04:48] I do.

[00:04:48] I do.

[00:04:49] I do.

[00:04:50] I feel like I see you all over and I love that so much.

[00:04:54] That makes me happy.

[00:04:55] Yeah.

[00:04:56] I remember talking about my first mentor and then going into my new, I was like very

[00:05:03] new into my new mentorship and speaking so highly of him.

[00:05:08] And I'm like, oh my God.

[00:05:09] And now here I am not at that position anymore.

[00:05:13] And I'm like, wow, just, just toxic after toxic.

[00:05:17] You know, I thought it'd be funny.

[00:05:19] Things move a mile a minute in this.

[00:05:21] I have literally interviewed somebody and it was great.

[00:05:26] And then before the second part of her interview, all had changed.

[00:05:33] I believe that.

[00:05:34] Yeah.

[00:05:34] And I was like, whoa, whoa.

[00:05:38] But no, go ahead.

[00:05:39] I mean, yeah.

[00:05:40] I was like telling my best friend, I like about us and like our first interview, because we

[00:05:44] weren't even best friends at that point.

[00:05:45] She's a tattooer as well.

[00:05:46] And also left the same shop at the same time.

[00:05:50] And she was like, I can't wait to just hear it.

[00:05:55] Hear about you telling everybody.

[00:05:58] That was just like speaking so highly of somebody who I thought would be someone who I could continue

[00:06:03] to speak highly of.

[00:06:04] And now I'm in a situation where I can't.

[00:06:06] And I'm like, great.

[00:06:07] You know?

[00:06:08] So I'm in a, I'm also super happy because I'm like, okay, now I'm in a woman owned shop

[00:06:13] where I need to be.

[00:06:15] No more toxic masculinity for me.

[00:06:19] Right on.

[00:06:21] What happened with that?

[00:06:23] Like I, I, um, I'm going to preface it because I, uh, despite what happened, I always like

[00:06:31] to think that we can grow and change.

[00:06:34] And I pray for that for all people, no matter what.

[00:06:38] So, um, I agree.

[00:06:40] I'd like, I'd like to pray that wherever you left and whatever toxic thing that lessons have

[00:06:45] been learned and there will be growth.

[00:06:48] And now dish, I really hope that that will happen, but I don't think it will.

[00:06:54] I mean, we can only pray.

[00:06:56] I know, right?

[00:06:58] Well, once I finally left, people started coming out of the woodwork and kind of being more honest

[00:07:03] with me, people who had not talked to me, including friends.

[00:07:07] And then finally, when I left friends, family, other tattoo artists, I was like, wait, what?

[00:07:14] Uh, cause I kind of knew there was something weird going on, but I like, didn't really,

[00:07:19] you know, I had my blinders on.

[00:07:20] I was an apprentice.

[00:07:20] I want to be respectful.

[00:07:22] And then when I became not an apprentice, that's when I was like, I'm done.

[00:07:26] Yeah.

[00:07:27] Like, come on, man.

[00:07:29] When does this shit end?

[00:07:31] It's like, and it's like a cycle that keeps happening and I keep seeing it happen.

[00:07:36] Like if I keep hearing it, I'm like, there's nothing going to change.

[00:07:40] Like you are who you are.

[00:07:41] And it's not that terrible.

[00:07:43] It's just the way that you kind of treat people and you don't really know that, you know,

[00:07:48] that you're treating them bad, but then you, I just learned this term gaslight and it's

[00:07:51] a hundred percent gaslighting.

[00:07:53] Yeah.

[00:07:54] Yeah.

[00:07:54] I finally understand what it means.

[00:07:55] They're like, wow.

[00:07:57] Yeah.

[00:07:57] I get that.

[00:07:58] Would you say, I'm sorry to cut you off.

[00:08:01] Go ahead.

[00:08:01] No, no, no.

[00:08:02] I was just going to say that like in, in recent years, I've, I've been reflecting a lot about

[00:08:09] my own experience and that same thing, by the way, like after I was let go, um, I started

[00:08:15] asking people and just telling them my side of the story and they would tell me their real

[00:08:19] perspective.

[00:08:20] And I was like, shit, man, like, why didn't I hear this before?

[00:08:24] Right.

[00:08:24] But I think people want you to learn for yourself.

[00:08:27] For sure.

[00:08:28] And also, also people don't know where you stand.

[00:08:32] And I was very good at like chameleoning because I knew that was what I needed to do in order

[00:08:36] to not be treated as bad as I could be.

[00:08:40] So I was like, I, if I play this game right, I will be able to not be like treated like shit,

[00:08:46] even though I kind of was, I was like, still not as bad as I could, it could be, you know

[00:08:51] what I mean?

[00:08:51] Right.

[00:08:52] It was like very like low key shit, but I'm like, this could be worse than I'm having to

[00:08:55] pretend.

[00:08:57] Um, so I realized like a lot of people thought that I was in a different situation than I

[00:09:02] was because I was just playing the game.

[00:09:03] I'm like, I have to, like, I'm trying to get by.

[00:09:06] I'm trying not to, even my husband was like, you're too nice to this person.

[00:09:10] I'm like, I know I have to be imagine being in a workplace and you're not like, I just

[00:09:15] want to make it chill while I'm there.

[00:09:18] I'm surprised because like, I really can't imagine because you're so good at presenting

[00:09:25] yourself, uh, online and, and, you know, drawing the, I mean, honestly, like a very clean, very

[00:09:33] good, um, professionalism to yourself.

[00:09:36] And it's very you.

[00:09:38] And it's very, um, at least from the outside looking in this, I had no idea.

[00:09:46] So like, that's what I'm saying is like, your professionalism is really, really good.

[00:09:52] You have your style.

[00:09:53] It's very clear what it's about.

[00:09:55] You have, you know, like you're not like messing around with like, yeah, no, totally.

[00:10:03] And I, I appreciate that.

[00:10:05] So it's baffling to me.

[00:10:06] What could be, what could be criticized?

[00:10:09] I mean, I know I don't have the whole story, but I would say that like, you definitely don't

[00:10:14] seem like anything happened.

[00:10:16] Right.

[00:10:17] And it was definitely like more like internal weirdness that I was seeing that I was like,

[00:10:25] oh, I don't like this kind of vibe.

[00:10:27] Like, but I was definitely criticized more than anyone else, which I get that.

[00:10:31] Like I was, I wanted, I've always been like that.

[00:10:34] Like they've always, you treat me harder than most people.

[00:10:38] Cause I could take it first of all.

[00:10:39] And I feel like it pushes me harder, but people were skating by doing way less and way worse.

[00:10:47] And I was like, this is not okay.

[00:10:48] First of all, if I'm getting treated like this, having to do crazy things, having to like send

[00:10:54] you screenshots of my tattoos and you zoom in and you're like this one tiny line is bad.

[00:11:00] And then I see people walk in the door, get hired and they have terrible artwork.

[00:11:04] And I'm like, dude, like, this is so fucked up.

[00:11:07] Wow.

[00:11:08] I'm like, I'm like going above and beyond.

[00:11:11] And you're like, I go home and you're criticizing my pretty well.

[00:11:16] Like I thought it was pretty well done.

[00:11:17] I get that.

[00:11:18] But then when people, he would hire people and there'd be absolute garbage and not treat

[00:11:23] them like that.

[00:11:23] And I'm like, this is, this is absurd.

[00:11:26] And that's just like one tip of the iceberg thing.

[00:11:28] It was just like so many things that I'm like, I get that you're treating me in a different

[00:11:33] way, but it's, you got to treat everybody the same.

[00:11:36] If they're under your shop.

[00:11:38] Now, were they, I'm just, I'm gathering deets.

[00:11:41] Cause you know, this is for posterity for, for the noobs and for, you know, the would-be's.

[00:11:47] Um, now was, were these artists that were already like, you know, like they had gone above their

[00:11:55] apprenticeships.

[00:11:56] He wasn't training these people and treating them differently.

[00:11:59] Were they, was he hiring them?

[00:12:01] And then just kind of zeroing in on you because you were his like.

[00:12:05] No, one was his apprentice.

[00:12:07] Okay.

[00:12:08] The other apprentice.

[00:12:09] All right.

[00:12:09] And one got hired and she was absolute trash garbage.

[00:12:14] And I told him that I was like, absolutely not.

[00:12:16] You cannot hire this.

[00:12:17] This looks terrible for you.

[00:12:18] Like this looks terrible for the shop.

[00:12:20] Like this is garbage.

[00:12:22] And I'm not going to like, I love everyone, but I'm like, I don't like her personality and

[00:12:26] I don't like her tattoo.

[00:12:27] She's no longer there.

[00:12:29] I've heard through the grapevine because.

[00:12:32] Oh, they all hated her personality and her tattoos.

[00:12:34] And I'm like, I called it.

[00:12:35] Thank you.

[00:12:36] But you're the one, you're the one.

[00:12:37] He was like, he was like, I wanted to work with other women.

[00:12:42] I've gotten that a lot.

[00:12:43] Oh, you know, like Amy has trouble with other girls.

[00:12:46] I'm like, no, I don't.

[00:12:47] Dick don't even put that out there.

[00:12:50] No, I don't.

[00:12:50] All the girls in the shop.

[00:12:52] Yeah.

[00:12:52] Do your shit.

[00:12:53] Yeah.

[00:12:54] Yeah.

[00:12:55] I was actually like really good friends with all the girls.

[00:12:57] They're like, oh, she's just new and you're being mean.

[00:12:59] I'm like, absolutely.

[00:13:00] No, I, she was really good.

[00:13:02] And her personality sucked.

[00:13:04] That would be annoying, but at least her work would shine.

[00:13:07] Yes.

[00:13:07] But like two terrible things.

[00:13:08] Absolutely not.

[00:13:09] But when he said, when he hired her, he's like, oh, I want to apprentice you, like

[00:13:12] re-apprentice you, like get you on coils, all this stuff.

[00:13:15] And then that never happened.

[00:13:17] And I'm like, this sucks for me.

[00:13:19] And she was very, very new into tattooing, like maybe a year, two years, like not crazy,

[00:13:25] like had a very short apprenticeship.

[00:13:27] And then his other apprentice was like skating by because he would probably be company with

[00:13:31] a man.

[00:13:31] I'm not going to beat around the bush.

[00:13:34] But you know, I was cleaning tubes much longer than him.

[00:13:38] I was cleaning the shop much longer than him.

[00:13:40] Yeah.

[00:13:41] I was going to shop after I was apprenticing.

[00:13:44] And I was like, this is, I mean, everyone was, but I don't know.

[00:13:48] There was just so many things.

[00:13:49] These are like the tiniest little things.

[00:13:52] Those are huge.

[00:13:53] That's what adds up though.

[00:13:55] And, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm hopefully going to get married.

[00:14:01] Uh, God willing.

[00:14:02] Yeah.

[00:14:03] In September.

[00:14:04] Thank you.

[00:14:05] I'm really excited.

[00:14:06] But before that we did pre-marital counseling and not a lot of people have done that.

[00:14:11] And, you know, my pastor, he's very big about like, you know, making sure that we're on the

[00:14:17] same page.

[00:14:18] And he recognized and he recommended us read a book and kind of, you know, audit our relationship.

[00:14:24] And it is, it's those little things that if you don't, if you don't have communication or if you

[00:14:31] don't, you know, have a knowledge of the person enough to know, to, you know, tackle each little

[00:14:40] thing that happens, those little things are the thing that breaks it because it just,

[00:14:44] it just mounts, it just, it just keeps piling on.

[00:14:49] And then it just cracks everything eventually.

[00:14:52] And it'll do it to even somebody that you've, you know, you love and that you claim to spend

[00:14:58] the rest of your life with not even like a work colleague, but when it happens in business,

[00:15:03] and especially when, you know, the level to which we work, you know, we're dealing with

[00:15:08] people's forevers, you know, we care about our clients.

[00:15:11] We're trying to give a premier service.

[00:15:14] And when that work environment gets tense, man, everybody can feel it.

[00:15:20] Oh, it's so, it's so bad.

[00:15:21] And by the end, it was really obvious for me.

[00:15:25] Everyone like could tell, but I was like, I can't speak anymore.

[00:15:29] No, you can't think.

[00:15:30] And I'm still friends with pretty much every single person in that shop.

[00:15:35] Like, so it was not the, it was clearly one thing.

[00:15:39] Yeah.

[00:15:40] You know what I mean?

[00:15:40] That's great.

[00:15:41] Now that I'm hanging out with them and like talking to them all the time, I'm like, oh

[00:15:45] yeah, it was definitely, it was obviously that.

[00:15:48] Yeah.

[00:15:49] But I'm like, I mean, he's blocked me.

[00:15:51] So I'm like, he won't even know that I like am doing this.

[00:15:54] It's kind of hilarious.

[00:15:55] I'm like, how petty are you that you blocked me?

[00:15:57] Like I left and I told you I was going to my dream shop.

[00:16:01] And also I'm like upstate a lot.

[00:16:03] And I would get in trouble for like taking days off.

[00:16:05] Like you would have to ask for days off.

[00:16:07] Like you're a bartender.

[00:16:08] He actually compared us to bartenders.

[00:16:10] I was like, we're not bartenders at all.

[00:16:12] Like the bar must need a person to work at.

[00:16:16] You do not need me there.

[00:16:18] No.

[00:16:18] My client needs me.

[00:16:20] Yeah.

[00:16:20] And if I have no client, I'm not needed.

[00:16:23] Correct.

[00:16:24] There's no reason for me to be here.

[00:16:25] Like I'm not, what am I here for?

[00:16:28] Like a clown?

[00:16:29] Yeah.

[00:16:30] No, like this is not why I got into this industry.

[00:16:32] I wanted to get away from having to work a normal job.

[00:16:34] Yeah.

[00:16:35] And so once I bought the house, I would come up here all the time and me and my best friend

[00:16:38] would come and he would get mad at us.

[00:16:40] And we were like having to like quest time off or find someone to cover us.

[00:16:44] And I'm like, how many to cover me?

[00:16:46] Like this is a specific, and then I would find someone to cover me and then they wouldn't

[00:16:49] go because they didn't have a client.

[00:16:51] It's like, we would still get in trouble.

[00:16:53] I'm like, this is wild.

[00:16:55] So when I told him, I'm like, I have found my dream shop, which I'm at.

[00:16:59] And why would I not choose that?

[00:17:02] Yeah.

[00:17:02] They offered a better pay.

[00:17:04] They offered a better environment and they offered like what I exactly what I wanted.

[00:17:08] And they were on my vision board, you know, like, oh, that's great.

[00:17:12] And also told him that I was going to be upstate and just thought I was lying.

[00:17:17] I'm so happy for you.

[00:17:18] Yeah.

[00:17:19] Upstate New York is dope.

[00:17:20] And I'm so happy that you have.

[00:17:23] I mean, so much less.

[00:17:26] This this is a lot.

[00:17:27] And like, you know, being in that city and like all of it.

[00:17:31] I mean, it's a great way to like cut your teeth for sure.

[00:17:34] You're gonna you're gonna have some serious moxie after that.

[00:17:37] But like, yeah, like.

[00:17:40] Why?

[00:17:42] I love going there and working, hustling, going to work and then coming like here for my life.

[00:17:47] Peace.

[00:17:48] That's awesome.

[00:17:49] Awesome.

[00:17:50] No, I'm so happy for you.

[00:17:51] That's wonderful.

[00:17:53] Thank you.

[00:17:54] I think that.

[00:17:56] It's really hard.

[00:17:58] And again, I wouldn't.

[00:17:59] It's not to.

[00:18:03] You know, side with him at all.

[00:18:06] I do think it from my observation, and it's why I am very trepidatious about opening up a tattoo studio.

[00:18:13] I think it's really hard to maintain good boundaries in our industry, like very clean boundaries, because I mean, we're very emotional beings.

[00:18:25] Let's be real.

[00:18:26] I mean, like we're driven by art in a very, you know, that's like where we go for peace and our meditation.

[00:18:33] And, you know, to be able to fuse that into like client relationship and stuff is very.

[00:18:39] I don't know.

[00:18:40] It's very special.

[00:18:41] It's very sacred.

[00:18:42] And, you know, it's I think it's hard to like, I don't know.

[00:18:47] I've observed it.

[00:18:47] It totally is.

[00:18:49] Being very hard.

[00:18:50] Like.

[00:18:51] I don't know, just.

[00:18:54] Keeping it all together and juggling all the personalities.

[00:18:58] It's like herding cats, you know, like.

[00:19:00] Yeah.

[00:19:01] Well, I'm not like everyone that I know that owns a shop is like, don't do it.

[00:19:05] Yeah.

[00:19:06] Yeah.

[00:19:06] Well, I mean, you know, I mean, I see people doing it.

[00:19:09] I do see people do it.

[00:19:11] I have like private studios now.

[00:19:12] It makes sense because they're like, oh, I don't need to deal with all these personalities.

[00:19:16] Because it's also, yeah.

[00:19:18] A bunch of artists who.

[00:19:19] It's an irregular job.

[00:19:22] Yeah.

[00:19:22] It really like has no rules.

[00:19:24] Yeah.

[00:19:25] Crazy.

[00:19:26] You know, if.

[00:19:27] If like something happens to you, like in your personal life, it can really take a major hit to like your ability to perform.

[00:19:36] And you got to really like it's it's weird almost because.

[00:19:40] You know, they're starting to provide like.

[00:19:43] Benefits and like, you know, like extras to like certain spaces.

[00:19:47] But like for the most part, it's pretty much just like what you what you earn is what you make and what you put yourself to.

[00:19:53] And, you know, like it's hard to like have a very.

[00:20:00] Binding relationship with somebody that is familiar, familial enough that if you really had to take time off for you to, you know, really feel like you could have a job or a regular standing when you get back there, because, you know, like you said, like.

[00:20:16] Your clients need you.

[00:20:18] He really doesn't.

[00:20:19] But in some ways, you know, like if there's this chair like empty for a while, you know, like they need that filled at some point.

[00:20:26] But I'm talking when I say gone, I'm talking like a day or two.

[00:20:30] No, I know.

[00:20:30] I know.

[00:20:32] I'm just saying.

[00:20:33] I was like, yo, I'm out for a month.

[00:20:35] I would get that.

[00:20:36] But it would be like, like back when this was happening, I would only take off like.

[00:20:40] I was working five, six days a week.

[00:20:42] I would take off maybe two days.

[00:20:44] No, I'm scaling it way too much for what you're talking about.

[00:20:48] Way too much.

[00:20:49] There's no reason for you to be mad at me.

[00:20:50] I'm here.

[00:20:51] Blood, sweat and tears like every day.

[00:20:53] Let me have a day.

[00:20:54] Right.

[00:20:54] No, but I think what you are confronting is like for me, like I, I very much so in my mind.

[00:21:00] And that's a problem that I have is just like not being in the present.

[00:21:05] And I think a lot of people, they like project things in the future and how they're going to scale and will they be accountable and what will this do to them?

[00:21:11] And then how will that scale?

[00:21:13] And then if I let this go out of hand, then this will go out of hand.

[00:21:16] And then it just, it becomes this nonsense.

[00:21:18] And then they're reacting towards you in a way that you didn't even do.

[00:21:23] You're like, it's like, it was a day.

[00:21:24] It isn't a month.

[00:21:26] It's like, whoa, whoa.

[00:21:28] Yeah.

[00:21:28] Sorry.

[00:21:29] I'll come back.

[00:21:30] Yeah.

[00:21:31] And I don't know.

[00:21:32] I get that.

[00:21:34] So.

[00:21:34] Yeah.

[00:21:34] It wasn't like anything extreme.

[00:21:36] That's what I'm like.

[00:21:37] I don't understand.

[00:21:38] I don't know.

[00:21:39] Like, why does it matter?

[00:21:42] Yeah.

[00:21:42] It was very.

[00:21:43] Yeah.

[00:21:44] No, but I get.

[00:21:45] But that's what I like.

[00:21:46] Kind of like the new shop I'm at has like a very like free flowing.

[00:21:50] That's good.

[00:21:50] Thing where they like hire people and they know they all guest a lot and they are gone a lot,

[00:21:55] but they like understand that.

[00:21:56] Yeah.

[00:21:57] They do that.

[00:21:58] Well, there's a way to work that.

[00:21:59] And then you get like guest artists to come when they're not there.

[00:22:02] And it's like very like non stressful.

[00:22:05] Of course, I'm sure it's stressful a little bit for them, but it's also like,

[00:22:08] do we want our client, our artists to be at their happiest when they're not doing here?

[00:22:13] Or do they want to come in and be stressed out that we're like mad at them?

[00:22:17] Like.

[00:22:18] Right.

[00:22:18] Well, not only that, but you have to scale beyond one mentor too.

[00:22:23] And it's very important for you to be around other artists and see how they do things.

[00:22:29] You know, it.

[00:22:30] That was huge for me.

[00:22:32] Huge.

[00:22:33] It was like, I've reached my peak there.

[00:22:36] Yeah.

[00:22:37] And I realized that that shop was a very much starter shop after how I was noticing the artists who were there versus like the artists who left and the artists who left have scaled immensely.

[00:22:47] And I adore them all.

[00:22:49] And I'm like, okay, this is clearly like a starter shop.

[00:22:51] Mm-hmm.

[00:22:52] And this is now my time to scale.

[00:22:56] And I feel like if he would just get that he's a starter shop and just be okay with that, it would change his whole mindset.

[00:23:03] Oh, yeah.

[00:23:04] But he thinks he's like the next shop, but he's not.

[00:23:08] Right.

[00:23:08] And that's fine.

[00:23:09] Right.

[00:23:10] Just be like, okay, with your place in the world.

[00:23:14] Yeah.

[00:23:15] Yeah.

[00:23:15] I'm fine.

[00:23:16] But I like, and he knows that I would love to scale.

[00:23:18] Like, I'd keep wanting to get better.

[00:23:19] Like, that's so important to me.

[00:23:21] And I just want to meet more people.

[00:23:22] And I've always been like very close artists in this world.

[00:23:26] And I was like feeling very just confined.

[00:23:30] Like, and now I feel very free and open.

[00:23:33] That's awesome.

[00:23:34] That's great.

[00:23:35] And I'm just like, I don't even want to be like mean about what I'm saying to him.

[00:23:39] And I don't want to talk shit.

[00:23:41] You're not.

[00:23:42] It's just things that I wish that this person would realize for his own benefit.

[00:23:46] You know?

[00:23:46] And like, I feel like he, like you were saying in the beginning.

[00:23:50] Yeah.

[00:23:51] Would prosper if you would just realize, you know?

[00:23:53] Thinking was that, you know, each of us, if you're not in a shop and you're not around

[00:23:59] a mentor who very much so understands that their job isn't done.

[00:24:05] There's if they feel that way, they're going to plateau and everything and everyone around

[00:24:11] them is going to stagnate and they should be doing seminars and they should be inviting

[00:24:15] the shop to do conventions and they should be spawning, you know, like activities that

[00:24:20] you do together to push the boundaries of what they even know and encouraging that and the

[00:24:27] people that they, you know, they have under them because there's not going to be anything

[00:24:33] to keep you there.

[00:24:34] Like there's not, not going to be anything engaging and, and really, and truly you can

[00:24:40] only give as much as you can.

[00:24:42] And I do think that that's part of the, like the toxic masculine thing.

[00:24:45] Cause you know, men, I think, you know, to be kind, they just really want to be everything

[00:24:51] for us.

[00:24:52] And like, obviously we love men, like I have an amazing husband, but he's like so supportive

[00:24:58] in all of my endeavors.

[00:25:00] Are you a real person?

[00:25:01] Like how is he so positive?

[00:25:03] And he's like, get the hell out of there every time, you know?

[00:25:06] And, but it's different when you're working for one.

[00:25:10] Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:25:12] No, totally.

[00:25:13] Well, and he, he, he works with other creatives, right?

[00:25:17] Like, you know, musicians and things like that and all of that.

[00:25:20] Um, right.

[00:25:21] So I think he understands what kind of shackles it puts on you.

[00:25:26] If, if he doesn't encourage that and he doesn't, you know, at least say like this, this isn't

[00:25:33] even about me.

[00:25:34] This is about, you know, her need to go and dig as deep as she can.

[00:25:40] And I'm here for it, man, because it's going to be fun to watch.

[00:25:44] She'll be happy when she comes home, you know, like all that stuff.

[00:25:49] And he has to suffer you at home too.

[00:25:52] I feel like once you start like bothering people about your job, it's time to go.

[00:25:59] Yeah.

[00:25:59] Like he was in the same situation recently where you're like texting the loved ones, like

[00:26:03] so angry just to get things out.

[00:26:05] And you're like, okay, this is, and I've done it so many times throughout my whole life.

[00:26:08] I'm like, I need to realize now, like, okay, time to go.

[00:26:13] Cause you don't want to in any real, any job, like you don't want to be ever like going to

[00:26:18] work, like dreading it, you know?

[00:26:19] Yeah.

[00:26:20] But it's hard though, because I really, I have, I'm, I'm, it's been a thing lately.

[00:26:26] I'm like unfriending people right and left.

[00:26:29] I've always been doing this.

[00:26:30] It's in the air.

[00:26:31] I don't know what the fuck planet is having a meltdown right now.

[00:26:35] Someone annoys me.

[00:26:36] I'm like, you are unfollowing.

[00:26:37] Unless you're like a really good friend of mine.

[00:26:39] I'm just going to mute you for a while.

[00:26:40] Yeah.

[00:26:41] Yeah.

[00:26:42] But if you're not my friend, I'm unfollowing you.

[00:26:44] I can't have it in my face.

[00:26:46] I'm even going so far with really good friends that we're just like, we're reaching these

[00:26:52] like really foundational, like points where I'm like, dude, like, I don't hate you.

[00:26:58] I have a lot of respect for you.

[00:27:00] I don't think, you know, I don't think you're a bad person, but what, what are we doing?

[00:27:04] Because we're not doing anything together.

[00:27:07] Like to call each other friends means that we have to, on a fundamental level, understand

[00:27:13] each other.

[00:27:14] Like that, that has to be there at least at this point for me, because otherwise, no

[00:27:22] matter what I say to you, you're, you can't, you're not going to really process it and listen

[00:27:28] to it.

[00:27:29] And there's going to be something in your head.

[00:27:30] That's going to be like, yeah, I'll do what I want.

[00:27:32] And it's like, what am I, what am I doing here?

[00:27:36] Like, you know, like if, if we're going to be friends that we really do need to like,

[00:27:41] we do need to really want help.

[00:27:43] We need to really feel help.

[00:27:45] And it has to have reciprocity.

[00:27:47] And, you know, I'm just finding that that's not happening with a lot of people these days.

[00:27:54] And it's fine.

[00:27:55] I think it's, it's a kindness to say, let's save each other time.

[00:27:59] We can park this.

[00:28:00] Maybe it's a moment, but like, we're not doing anything except for pissing each other off.

[00:28:05] And like, what's the point?

[00:28:07] And you don't need it, you know, like, yeah, we're getting older.

[00:28:10] We don't need anything to make us just like bogged down.

[00:28:15] Yeah.

[00:28:15] And it's fine.

[00:28:16] But I am a person that very much so has to, and you know, a lot of these people have been

[00:28:21] decades that, that we've tried.

[00:28:23] And I am a person just like you that like, I'm not, I'm not going to just blow it up and

[00:28:29] walk out, you know, and see, I'm, I'm out of here.

[00:28:32] I'm going to try as much as I can before I'm like, no, I'm it's done.

[00:28:39] Yeah.

[00:28:40] I wait until the very last, like before I'm like, oh my God, if I wait one more second in

[00:28:45] this relationship, I'm going to break out.

[00:28:47] So I'm like, let me just cut it at that point.

[00:28:49] Yeah.

[00:28:50] Yeah.

[00:28:50] Yeah.

[00:28:50] I'll make it up until then.

[00:28:52] Yeah.

[00:28:53] No, that's good.

[00:28:54] And you left before you got fired.

[00:28:57] So that's good.

[00:28:59] I don't think I would have got fired.

[00:29:01] Yeah.

[00:29:01] Well, it's good that you left before you, before you even push that, because I didn't

[00:29:07] do that.

[00:29:08] Telling people that I got fired, which I'm like, interesting.

[00:29:11] Well, you know, whoever believes it, let them believe it.

[00:29:15] Hey, I'm like, whatever.

[00:29:17] What is it?

[00:29:18] Everyone knows.

[00:29:18] Everyone knows that's not true.

[00:29:20] Yeah.

[00:29:21] If he is telling people that.

[00:29:24] Yeah.

[00:29:24] You never want to.

[00:29:25] I mean, I've definitely got fired before.

[00:29:27] Yeah.

[00:29:28] You know.

[00:29:29] You always know when you're going to get fired as well.

[00:29:31] Like, it's not a surprise.

[00:29:33] I feel like usually.

[00:29:35] Yeah.

[00:29:36] I, I was ready to leave by the time I got fired.

[00:29:38] I was just upset about how it happened because it, it was very, um, with no closure.

[00:29:45] And, uh, that's sad because, you know, like.

[00:29:48] I kind of wish you would have just blocked me, you know, like, cause that's definitive,

[00:29:52] you know, like, that's like me, like, yeah, that's your problem.

[00:29:56] Yeah.

[00:29:57] Like you're going through something and like, I'll forgive you.

[00:30:00] But this is like, it was just like a cold Irish goodbye.

[00:30:04] Like.

[00:30:04] Oh wow.

[00:30:06] Texted me, texted me.

[00:30:07] I was fired.

[00:30:09] And, um, didn't even come when I came to pick up my stuff from the studio.

[00:30:14] He had locked everything in the studio and, and, and just basically rolled out before

[00:30:21] I got my stuff.

[00:30:22] So I couldn't even like shake his hand.

[00:30:24] Yeah.

[00:30:25] And be like.

[00:30:27] Well, that's what everybody says, but like.

[00:30:30] Cause it seems very.

[00:30:32] Like what?

[00:30:32] Like a high school girl would do.

[00:30:36] And, and, and for me, it's just so, um, it's so upsetting because.

[00:30:46] I, I, I, you know, like, that's like, I was nothing, you know, like, that's what it felt

[00:30:51] like is like, that's how easy it is for me to just not.

[00:30:56] And I don't care about how many things are unsaid, you know, like that's really like,

[00:31:02] and I, I thought we had better dialogue than that.

[00:31:06] I thought we did genuinely care about each other more than that.

[00:31:10] It's fine.

[00:31:12] It was really, it was, it's been a hard to like digest, but I'm like, I'm getting there

[00:31:20] and it's been very healing to, you know, just the private studio is, um, I like the energy

[00:31:26] of multiple artists, but I do love it more for my clients.

[00:31:30] Um, but it's been very healing and very giving to me about what I am capable of.

[00:31:35] And I do give them a lot of credit because, um, you know, I learned a lot from him, you

[00:31:40] know, I, I do, I, I did, but like, I agree.

[00:31:43] Like same with my position.

[00:31:45] I definitely, I don't discount that at all.

[00:31:47] Not like my first one.

[00:31:48] Yeah.

[00:31:49] There was definitely so much learning.

[00:31:51] Mm-hmm.

[00:31:52] You just hit a plateau and you're like, dude, I'm hungry.

[00:31:55] Sometimes learning isn't enough.

[00:31:57] Yeah.

[00:31:58] And I want to learn like other things and not be treated like.

[00:32:02] Well, there's so much.

[00:32:04] Like I just went to Pagoda tattoo, um, Pagoda city tattoo fest.

[00:32:09] And it's a really good one.

[00:32:10] It's in, um, a lot of people from New York come actually.

[00:32:14] Really?

[00:32:14] Where is that?

[00:32:15] It's in PA.

[00:32:16] And, um, there, um, let's see.

[00:32:21] It's, it's, it's a very like exclusive invite only.

[00:32:25] Definitely come.

[00:32:26] If you ever want to come to it and walk, it is like the most amazing artists.

[00:32:33] And they're very, very like, they're just solid, man.

[00:32:38] Like traditional, gorgeous, traditional work.

[00:32:41] Um, Derek Noble was there.

[00:32:44] Um, I actually like that.

[00:32:46] Cause I feel like a lot of the New York city conventions are very black and gray, like large

[00:32:50] scale.

[00:32:51] And I don't do that.

[00:32:53] No, no.

[00:32:54] And then they're, they're like old, like, like a traditional foundation.

[00:33:00] You know what I mean?

[00:33:01] And Japanese, like all that.

[00:33:03] So kind, so kind.

[00:33:05] Like Bill Canales was there.

[00:33:07] Um, just really dope artists from all over, like lots of San Diego, lots of California

[00:33:13] vibes, but lots of East coast.

[00:33:16] Um, just super great.

[00:33:18] And I was just walking around just to talk about like what you can learn with that kind

[00:33:23] of exposure is I was really getting off on everybody's setup.

[00:33:27] And I was like, these setups are dope.

[00:33:30] Like I should do a podcast.

[00:33:31] I mean, this is a shout out to like something I might explore, but I should do a podcast about

[00:33:36] best tips about, you know, how to kind of choreograph your setup and your, your booth.

[00:33:42] And like, they were all really set up really well.

[00:33:45] Everybody had their, you know, like their vibe, their style, and you could just see it.

[00:33:50] And it was really cool.

[00:33:52] It was really cool.

[00:33:54] And I was, I liked like the different vessels that they held candy in and like how they presented

[00:34:00] their flash and like it, it ranged and it was all so cool.

[00:34:05] And that's what you pick up, you know, too, is like, oh, I like that.

[00:34:10] You know, I'm going to try that and see if, you know, that works for me or if that feels

[00:34:14] good or if that, you know, that's a nice way to present it, you know?

[00:34:19] And I just think that's, that's something that you pick up when you travel and when you

[00:34:24] choreograph their space, their art, you know, different kind of promotionals that they do.

[00:34:30] You know, you can just bring things into the shop.

[00:34:33] It's like, let's try this, you know, this would be fun.

[00:34:36] Yeah.

[00:34:36] I like that a lot.

[00:34:37] It's good.

[00:34:38] It's really, really good.

[00:34:39] I'm sorry that he didn't embrace that enough.

[00:34:43] I mean, he tried, but in like very, like very corporate ways.

[00:34:48] And I don't like that either.

[00:34:50] I don't like like a corporate person telling a tattooer how to do things.

[00:34:54] I was like, why are we listening to this person?

[00:34:57] Like, they don't know this world and this world is not that.

[00:35:01] And like, I don't, and I also personally don't feel comfortable doing the like weird

[00:35:09] like stuff on TikTok and Instagram.

[00:35:11] Like, I don't want to be that person.

[00:35:13] I don't think that that is lucrative.

[00:35:15] It is a little bit, but I don't think it's like longevity.

[00:35:18] I just want to be organic in myself.

[00:35:20] And I just want to be happy.

[00:35:22] I was starting to get a little cheese ball.

[00:35:24] And I was like, I don't want to be this.

[00:35:25] I just want to be like organic.

[00:35:28] And the shop I'm at now is very like, they all are agree.

[00:35:31] They're like, we hate this just as much.

[00:35:33] You know, we all hate this show that we have to put on.

[00:35:37] And like the owner, Megan Masker is like a very famous, you know, TV personality.

[00:35:42] Oh, that's awesome.

[00:35:42] Oh, that's dope.

[00:35:43] Yeah.

[00:35:43] That would be the shop of your dreams.

[00:35:45] Doing this shit.

[00:35:46] I know.

[00:35:46] Oh, that's great.

[00:35:47] I mean, I'm around bad ass women.

[00:35:51] Oh, bravo.

[00:35:51] Oh, bravo.

[00:35:52] Yeah.

[00:35:53] That's wonderful.

[00:35:54] That's very cool.

[00:35:55] She's absolutely wonderful.

[00:35:57] The moment, even when this happened, they kind of knew it would go downhill.

[00:36:02] Like they knew because, you know, they've been through it just like I have, which I also

[00:36:07] like is very comforting to be in a space where we are, have all been through bullshit.

[00:36:13] And it's nice because normally the men don't go through that.

[00:36:18] So it's like, we all have had to like go through it.

[00:36:21] And it's so nice to be like with fucking talented women who have all gone through it.

[00:36:25] And we're like all the spooky, cool babes.

[00:36:29] And it's just like such an awesome vibe.

[00:36:32] And everybody does different styles.

[00:36:33] And, you know, we all agree about all the same things.

[00:36:37] And like you were saying about conventions, like they do conventions and want to do like

[00:36:41] more like organic outreach where it's not fake, but real.

[00:36:46] Cause we care about our clients.

[00:36:47] Like that's our number one thing.

[00:36:50] And I don't think we need to be gimmicky.

[00:36:52] No.

[00:36:53] Have clients.

[00:36:54] Like, I don't think that's necessary.

[00:36:55] Like I know everyone's saying it right now on the internet.

[00:36:57] Everyone's like, you have to do this, but I don't think you have to do it at all.

[00:37:01] No, no, I, I think that they're the best when, um, I think that's the best when you can show

[00:37:11] humor and your personality.

[00:37:13] I mean, it's very clear that you're having fun.

[00:37:15] Exactly.

[00:37:16] And if you love it, you can tell if you don't have it, you can tell you need to be like,

[00:37:20] I get like, some people are so good at it and it's great.

[00:37:23] Yeah.

[00:37:24] But for me anymore, like now I really want to like explore meeting more people in the

[00:37:29] tattoo world and just meeting more clients and learning more, like you were saying, like

[00:37:35] setups and different like ways to do art or prints or all that kind of stuff.

[00:37:41] And like making merge things that I'm not used to doing.

[00:37:44] Absolutely.

[00:37:45] Yeah, totally.

[00:37:46] Oh, I'm so happy for you.

[00:37:48] That's so exciting.

[00:37:50] That's so exciting.

[00:37:51] Pinch me as this reel.

[00:37:52] And now that I've been there for like over six months, I'm like, this is such a great

[00:37:56] base.

[00:37:57] Wow.

[00:37:57] I am so behind in your life.

[00:38:00] And I've never heard one single bad thing about this woman from anyone.

[00:38:06] And that's also a great sign because I had heard bad things about this other person before,

[00:38:11] but I, you know, you scoot things under the rug.

[00:38:13] Yeah.

[00:38:14] But this woman has never, I have not heard one bad thing.

[00:38:19] That's awesome.

[00:38:20] Across the board.

[00:38:21] Just like a genuine good person.

[00:38:23] All the owners are actually, they're all women.

[00:38:25] That's awesome.

[00:38:27] All do their own little like cool thing.

[00:38:30] And it's.

[00:38:31] How do they organize it?

[00:38:32] Do you, do you do commission rents?

[00:38:35] I'm just curious because, you know.

[00:38:37] Yeah.

[00:38:37] It's commission, which I feel like most places I've looked at are like that, especially in

[00:38:41] the city.

[00:38:41] I've never met anybody who does booth rent.

[00:38:43] Yeah.

[00:38:44] I feel like you can't.

[00:38:46] That would be insane.

[00:38:48] Like the rent is just too crazy.

[00:38:50] Yeah.

[00:38:51] And they do like, they do do a really cool setup where it's like, you could be an employee

[00:38:55] or you can be an independent contractor.

[00:38:57] So it's really cool.

[00:38:58] So you could kind of choose your adventure kind of thing.

[00:39:01] And I like that.

[00:39:03] Yeah.

[00:39:03] They do provide health insurance for employees, which is great.

[00:39:06] It's awesome.

[00:39:07] So it's like cool to like have different options.

[00:39:09] Like it's not a typical setup and it's private, but it's very much, they're trying to make it

[00:39:15] more like, cause it used to be a, like an open storefront with a shot, like with a little

[00:39:22] clothing boutique and you know, with everything that happens in New York, that doesn't work

[00:39:26] out, but the new private studio is great.

[00:39:29] And we're trying to do more walk-in days and things like that, which I think are in

[00:39:32] like open houses for clients to come in.

[00:39:34] Oh, that's fun.

[00:39:36] Oh yeah.

[00:39:36] That's really cool.

[00:39:38] It's been like, which is like exciting.

[00:39:40] Cause I really like a private studio vibe, but I do like that incorporation of a walk-in

[00:39:46] day, but like it's not as chaotic.

[00:39:47] I feel like.

[00:39:48] Yeah.

[00:39:49] Cause people can't just walk in the door.

[00:39:55] Pardon this brief interruption.

[00:39:57] I just wanted to very quickly shout out Paradise Tattoo Gathering and to remind all of

[00:40:03] you that if you think that you can't go, well, I'm here to tell you they have a scholarship

[00:40:08] fund.

[00:40:09] It's going to cover pretty much everything, you know, like flight in, uh, the shuttle,

[00:40:15] the, the stay there, your artists pass.

[00:40:18] Like it's going to get you there.

[00:40:20] And this isn't a life-changing tattoo convention.

[00:40:24] You're stuck on a mountain.

[00:40:25] You're going to be exposed and like have the opportunity to sit with like elite worldwide

[00:40:34] recognized artists and be able to soak up all of the awesomeness that is them.

[00:40:40] That is Jiminy Peak, Massachusetts in October.

[00:40:43] Come on guys.

[00:40:44] It's right before Halloween.

[00:40:47] It's awesome.

[00:40:48] The leaves are changing.

[00:40:49] Like all the East coast vibes are kicking and it's beautiful.

[00:40:53] So apply, apply and do so quickly because from what I hear, they're fashioning a deadline.

[00:41:00] And so very soon you're not going to be able to do it anymore.

[00:41:04] So get it in, apply, nominate somebody.

[00:41:08] If you feel somebody wouldn't do it for themselves, uh, or donate, you know, just go to tattoo

[00:41:15] gathering.com.

[00:41:17] There should be a fast track link right to the scholarship.

[00:41:21] Click on that.

[00:41:22] You'll find, you'll find your way there, man.

[00:41:24] Like get a scholarship.

[00:41:26] Like it's, it's dope.

[00:41:28] So apply.

[00:41:29] All right.

[00:41:30] Back to our podcast.

[00:41:37] Yes.

[00:41:38] Yes.

[00:41:39] Well, and recently, you know, I don't, I don't think given, given, I mean, you know,

[00:41:47] if it comes back to bite me, I'm going to put it out there.

[00:41:50] But recently I did, I guess, but I'll not name the place just so that maybe it'll be

[00:41:55] harder to track, but recently I did a guest spot.

[00:41:57] And, and, you know, they had walk-in, you know, ability and these four, I say boys because

[00:42:06] I'm 43.

[00:42:07] Well, not 43 yet, but I will be very soon.

[00:42:11] And they're like barely legal.

[00:42:13] And I'm like, okay, you know, what's this?

[00:42:16] And there's, there's fucking four of them.

[00:42:19] And I'm like, two of them are already over it.

[00:42:24] Like, they're like, what are we here?

[00:42:25] Like, they're just like barely able to sit in the chair without like, like, like melting

[00:42:31] into it.

[00:42:32] And their face is just so unimpressed and bored already.

[00:42:37] And I'm like, oh, this is going to scale fast.

[00:42:41] Like, I can just hear them if I'm tattooing their body, be like, bro, how much longer

[00:42:46] is this going to take?

[00:42:47] You know, like already.

[00:42:50] I can't with it.

[00:42:51] All right.

[00:42:52] So then like one of them, he doesn't, he knows he wants, he wanted, he wanted a rhino,

[00:42:58] a rhinoceros, but he doesn't know how he doesn't, he wants it.

[00:43:01] He doesn't, he has like no concept of how he wants this at all, but he knows he wants

[00:43:06] it.

[00:43:07] And I was like, well, that's something, but I would, I would like you to like, have a

[00:43:11] little bit more vision for this before we, you know, ask some questions.

[00:43:15] It was based on a nickname.

[00:43:17] And I was like, well, ask the person who gave you the nickname, you know, like go over it

[00:43:22] with them and like really make it special.

[00:43:24] And he was like, oh, that's a good idea.

[00:43:26] And I was like, yeah, dude, like, you know, dive in a little bit more.

[00:43:29] Um, and then this other guy, like he already had like a, it's kind of like a Japanese kind

[00:43:38] of, uh, it wasn't tribal.

[00:43:41] It was like a Japanese, like, um, very graphic tiger.

[00:43:46] And he's like, yeah, I either want like another tiger like it or a dragon.

[00:43:51] I was like, well, those are two totally different things.

[00:43:53] So got to narrow it down for me.

[00:43:57] Right.

[00:43:57] We got to narrow it down.

[00:43:59] And then he was like, well, how much would that like cost?

[00:44:02] And I was like, well, either one about the size, like I could probably get done in like

[00:44:05] two and a half to three hours.

[00:44:06] So, you know, I gave him my rate.

[00:44:08] They were like, oh, okay.

[00:44:09] And they're like, well, yeah, we're actually like going to ocean city after this.

[00:44:13] And I was like, why did I?

[00:44:18] What?

[00:44:19] I said, well, listen, I'm a guest artist.

[00:44:21] So everything I just did right now doesn't matter because when you come back here, cause

[00:44:26] you're not getting tattooed today.

[00:44:28] And they're like, oh, we're not going to go in the ocean.

[00:44:30] And I was like, you're not going to ocean city with a fresh tattoo.

[00:44:34] And if you are, you're getting tattooed at ocean city.

[00:44:37] You're not freaking getting tattooed here and then going to ocean city.

[00:44:42] No, it's not happening.

[00:44:46] All you could have done was not said it.

[00:44:49] I know.

[00:44:50] I guess like, that's what I'm always confused.

[00:44:52] I'm like, did you just, you just ruined everything?

[00:44:54] Yeah.

[00:44:55] Praise God.

[00:44:56] Sometimes when they just, you know, if you're really going to go, you're going to go.

[00:45:01] Well, but like, I'm at a, I'm at a foreign shop.

[00:45:04] I usually do appointment only, you know, that's a very controlled space for me.

[00:45:08] And I meet with my clients and I do very thorough consultations.

[00:45:12] So do a walk-in and then I'm in another person's shop and whatever I do on this person, this

[00:45:18] shop's kind of taking the liability hit for me.

[00:45:21] Totally.

[00:45:21] You know?

[00:45:22] So like, you know, if they had returned and be like, dude, it fucking fell out.

[00:45:25] And they're like, yeah, we didn't do it.

[00:45:27] Yeah.

[00:45:28] Like, like, I didn't do it.

[00:45:30] I didn't do that.

[00:45:31] And I get called from them and I'm just like, oh, praise God.

[00:45:35] No, I did not do that one.

[00:45:36] Do you know that there's a thing called sand herpes?

[00:45:38] And they were like, what?

[00:45:39] And I was like, it's a thing.

[00:45:41] I was like, there's a shit ton of sand at Ocean City and boardwalk people that you're

[00:45:46] going to bump into.

[00:45:47] Like, no, I'm not tattooing you.

[00:45:50] I was like, this is why I agree.

[00:45:52] Appointments only are like very, this is how I like to work.

[00:45:56] I also like the back and forth beforehand.

[00:45:59] Even when I do like these like tattoo events, I don't do like walk.

[00:46:03] I do like booked appointments.

[00:46:05] Yeah.

[00:46:05] Yeah.

[00:46:05] Because I want to have that like collaboration with somebody and let them like decide a

[00:46:10] tattoo beforehand.

[00:46:11] I don't like the, because if it's right then and there, they don't care about you and they

[00:46:17] don't care about the tattoo.

[00:46:18] I feel like, cause I've got fucking flat, like walking tattoos.

[00:46:22] I'm not like, oh, I do not remember a single artist that I've ever got tattooed by that.

[00:46:26] I got a walking tattoo.

[00:46:27] Well, that's why you don't like TikTok.

[00:46:29] That's why you don't like TikTok.

[00:46:30] Cause you know, it's not.

[00:46:32] Yeah.

[00:46:33] Yeah.

[00:46:33] Well, you didn't earn anything.

[00:46:35] You didn't, you got it way too quick.

[00:46:37] And so you can't value anything that came that easy.

[00:46:41] Right.

[00:46:41] I agree.

[00:46:42] I like, just from experience, you know, you're like, it's just ridiculous.

[00:46:46] And your TikTok, that guy, you know, whatever, 300 million views.

[00:46:50] Yeah.

[00:46:51] Eventually it'll just like be gone.

[00:46:54] And then what are you going to do after that?

[00:46:55] Yeah.

[00:46:56] Yeah.

[00:46:56] With all those people.

[00:46:58] Exactly.

[00:46:59] Exactly.

[00:46:59] No one cared.

[00:47:01] It's crazy.

[00:47:03] That's why walk-ins for me were never like huge.

[00:47:05] And even when I was apprenticing, I would do them, but like, I wasn't scared of them.

[00:47:09] I was just like, I just don't feel like fulfillment off of it.

[00:47:13] And I get that I have to do it to get better, but I will do that.

[00:47:16] I'm not going to say no.

[00:47:18] Yeah.

[00:47:19] But like this whole career for me is not money.

[00:47:21] It is being fulfilled by the tattoos that I do.

[00:47:24] And if I'm not fulfilled by it, like there's no point to me personally.

[00:47:27] Yeah.

[00:47:28] It's art.

[00:47:29] It's not about like walk-ins are completely just fast money and that's it.

[00:47:33] You are not caring about your client or the art.

[00:47:36] Nor do they really allow you to, because it's very transactional for them.

[00:47:40] And so you're just a tool that they're using for what they need at that moment.

[00:47:44] And that doesn't feel good.

[00:47:46] Like you said.

[00:47:47] Yeah.

[00:47:47] No, it's like that.

[00:47:48] It's also like the owner is using you as an artist to make them fast money.

[00:47:54] And then you're just sitting around just waiting.

[00:47:56] Like maybe there'll be one today.

[00:47:57] Maybe there will.

[00:47:58] Might as well go work at McDonald's.

[00:48:00] Honestly, right now in the city.

[00:48:01] He was a tattoo artist, right?

[00:48:03] Your owner?

[00:48:05] Yeah.

[00:48:06] Self-taught, of course.

[00:48:07] That's good.

[00:48:08] I mean, at least he was a...

[00:48:09] The self-taught ones love to really grind in the apprenticeships, don't they?

[00:48:15] Yes.

[00:48:16] Yes.

[00:48:17] I don't know.

[00:48:18] I didn't do everything that you didn't have to do.

[00:48:20] This is awesome.

[00:48:22] The pagoda, I've met a lot of different people.

[00:48:24] I mean, I didn't hear about...

[00:48:27] I knew that they're dope, but a lot of them are like, oh, you know, I didn't have a traditional

[00:48:30] apprenticeship.

[00:48:31] Which I don't mind at all.

[00:48:33] No, but like, I don't know.

[00:48:35] I don't...

[00:48:36] I don't know.

[00:48:37] I haven't had enough...

[00:48:39] I don't mind at all, but it's like, if you are self-taught, I feel like you cannot have

[00:48:45] apprentices and treat them like you are...

[00:48:50] Something we are...

[00:48:51] Yeah.

[00:48:51] Yeah.

[00:48:52] Yeah.

[00:48:52] Like, you never went through this.

[00:48:54] So why am I having to go through it?

[00:48:56] Yeah.

[00:48:56] Yeah.

[00:48:57] This is crazy to me.

[00:48:59] Yeah.

[00:48:59] Because technically, you don't have the authority to be doing that.

[00:49:03] I don't know.

[00:49:04] Yeah.

[00:49:04] Well, that started to catch you on it.

[00:49:06] Yeah.

[00:49:06] You know the discernment.

[00:49:08] Once, I didn't find that out, you know, until I already started.

[00:49:11] Mm-hmm.

[00:49:11] How did it go down?

[00:49:13] What was the...

[00:49:14] What was the...

[00:49:15] How did...

[00:49:16] Okay.

[00:49:16] How did you go about this whole thing?

[00:49:19] Because you said you and another girl left at the same day.

[00:49:21] Like...

[00:49:22] Yeah.

[00:49:22] So I had been thinking about it for a while because I'd just been frustrated.

[00:49:27] And then I really wanted to become an apprentice.

[00:49:28] And I also wanted to respect the whole thing.

[00:49:30] And it's very important to me, like, to finish things that I start.

[00:49:34] Mm-hmm.

[00:49:34] So even if, like, even when Dana was like, you have to leave, I'm like, no, I need to

[00:49:38] be an apprentice and I need to work there for a while after I become an apprentice.

[00:49:43] Like, that's important to me.

[00:49:44] When the two-year mark hit and I didn't become an artist and it was a contract, I was like,

[00:49:52] hey, in this contract, it says two years and then I will be an apprentice.

[00:49:56] Mm-hmm.

[00:49:56] It's two years.

[00:49:58] And then it didn't happen.

[00:49:59] And I was already like, I hate.

[00:50:01] Like, this sucks.

[00:50:02] Yeah.

[00:50:03] Like, you just...

[00:50:03] The contract wasn't valid because I had my lawyer look over it and he was like, don't

[00:50:07] sign this if it was valid because it's insane.

[00:50:10] But it's not.

[00:50:10] So sign it.

[00:50:12] So for me, it wasn't valid.

[00:50:13] But the two-year part was to me.

[00:50:16] And then when I approached him, he said, you know what you have to do in order to become

[00:50:21] an artist because you didn't do this.

[00:50:23] And I'm like, for sure, when I tell you that's insane, but he didn't tell me this when we

[00:50:27] started or I would have done it.

[00:50:28] I had to do three full sleeves, full concept sleeves, not just like Patrick because I'd

[00:50:34] done Patrick.

[00:50:34] That doesn't count.

[00:50:35] Three full concepts, two full heads, three hands, a back piece.

[00:50:44] And I think that was it.

[00:50:46] And I was like, are you fucking kidding me?

[00:50:48] So I went home.

[00:50:49] I was like in tears.

[00:50:51] I was so mad because I was like, this is a back piece.

[00:50:54] That's another two fucking years of me cleaning.

[00:50:58] Like, I don't want to clean anymore.

[00:50:59] Like, I'm 34 years old.

[00:51:00] I like, this is insane.

[00:51:04] Three sleeves.

[00:51:05] Like, what the fuck?

[00:51:05] So then I contacted all my fucking clients.

[00:51:07] I was like, all right, I'm going to fucking do it.

[00:51:09] I got them all set up by the next day and told him all of them.

[00:51:13] And then he's like, this one doesn't count.

[00:51:15] This one doesn't count.

[00:51:16] Or like, you know, you're not going to fast track that.

[00:51:19] Like, kind of just like beating her.

[00:51:21] And I'm like, are you fucking kidding me?

[00:51:23] I literally just went home and hustled my ass up.

[00:51:26] And then like a couple of them, I was like, I'll just do this for free.

[00:51:29] Yeah.

[00:51:30] He's like, you can't do them for free.

[00:51:31] I'm like, what?

[00:51:32] Why not?

[00:51:33] The fuck?

[00:51:33] It's experience.

[00:51:34] How the hell am I going to get a back piece up in here?

[00:51:37] A head.

[00:51:38] Right.

[00:51:38] And sleeves just, a sleeve is a very expensive project.

[00:51:42] Yeah.

[00:51:42] This is crazy.

[00:51:43] Yeah.

[00:51:43] So when I did all those, and then I had accomplished a couple of them.

[00:51:47] And I was just like, every day I was pissed.

[00:51:49] And he called me one day and he's like, I can tell you're mad.

[00:51:51] I'm like, are you?

[00:51:52] Yeah, I'm mad.

[00:51:54] Like, this is crazy.

[00:51:55] Yeah.

[00:51:55] And, but he didn't.

[00:51:57] And then I like, then after that, he was like, oh, you don't have to clean anymore.

[00:52:00] You can leave when you want to.

[00:52:01] Because I would have to stay in the morning.

[00:52:03] Okay.

[00:52:03] There you go.

[00:52:04] And then I'd have to open up and then I have to leave after everybody else every day.

[00:52:08] And I'm like, I can't do this anymore.

[00:52:10] That's pretty dangerous.

[00:52:10] So then he let me kind of like be a little more fluid.

[00:52:13] And then I got too fluid.

[00:52:14] And then he was like mad again.

[00:52:16] And then I was just like, this is bullshit.

[00:52:18] And then me and my best friend started talking.

[00:52:20] And I kind of planted the seed.

[00:52:22] She was going to stay there for a while.

[00:52:23] And then she finally got offered her dream job again after a couple of times.

[00:52:28] And I'm like, just take it.

[00:52:29] Like, but are you taking this?

[00:52:32] I'm going to give a fuck when I leave.

[00:52:34] So when she left, she got a going away party.

[00:52:37] She got, you can come back anytime.

[00:52:40] The day that I got accepted to grit, I was like, okay, tomorrow I have to quit.

[00:52:45] And I called them.

[00:52:46] I'm like, yo, this might go bad.

[00:52:48] If it goes bad, can I have all my clients?

[00:52:50] Can I like fast track and come there?

[00:52:52] I know this is not the way I want to do it.

[00:52:55] Cause I was going to give him like two weeks a month.

[00:52:56] Do all my clients there.

[00:52:58] Right.

[00:52:59] And I'm like, yeah, it's fine.

[00:53:00] I'm like, okay.

[00:53:01] Just in case like my heart.

[00:53:03] I'm like, I know.

[00:53:04] And that's why I'm asking you because it has.

[00:53:07] I was so sure.

[00:53:09] The whole day.

[00:53:11] I remember my last client had booked her because she like had bought one of

[00:53:15] a gift cards through the shop and I'm like, I have to get this girl in.

[00:53:19] And then I got her and I'm like, I'm just so stressed out the whole day.

[00:53:22] She's like, what's wrong?

[00:53:23] I'm like, I'm about to quit.

[00:53:26] So I take him in the shop.

[00:53:28] Also when my best friend quit, he had pulled me outside, which is,

[00:53:31] I think very unprofessional and said pretty much like,

[00:53:35] you're going to stay here for another year at least.

[00:53:37] Right.

[00:53:38] And I'm like, what else am I supposed to say right now?

[00:53:40] So I say yes, because I'm un-fucking-comfortable.

[00:53:44] Yeah.

[00:53:44] And so I say yes.

[00:53:45] And then that's the thing that he's telling everybody.

[00:53:47] Like she promised me a year.

[00:53:48] And I'm like, I promised you a year because you made me uncomfortable.

[00:53:52] That's not fair.

[00:53:53] First of all.

[00:53:54] So then I just put him in the office and I told him literally like,

[00:53:57] one, I got accepted to my dream job.

[00:53:59] Two, I'm transitioning upstate, which I am.

[00:54:03] Right.

[00:54:03] Both are not lies.

[00:54:05] And then he assumed that I went to the same shop as my friend.

[00:54:07] And I was like, no.

[00:54:08] And then I told him I didn't want to disclose the shop.

[00:54:11] And then he's like, you have to, you owe this to me.

[00:54:13] And I'm like, okay, well fine.

[00:54:15] I'll just tell you.

[00:54:17] And so I told him and then he like, didn't look me in the eyes.

[00:54:20] It was just like, this is business.

[00:54:23] I'm like, well, what do we do?

[00:54:26] Like my clients, like, what are we going to do?

[00:54:29] I felt weird.

[00:54:30] So I left.

[00:54:31] And then I just started to contact you on my clients.

[00:54:33] Cause I just, I knew he was going to act crazy.

[00:54:35] And then I started deleting them all.

[00:54:38] Yeah.

[00:54:39] And then that's when he sent me a text.

[00:54:40] Like you need to come in and get yourself.

[00:54:42] And I'm like, wow, you're so pathetic.

[00:54:45] And then I just waited until he was gone.

[00:54:47] Went in and then he had the manager watch me.

[00:54:49] Who's my very good friend.

[00:54:50] Well, at least that's true.

[00:54:51] So I didn't sleep.

[00:54:52] So I didn't steal things.

[00:54:53] Yeah.

[00:54:54] Well, I mean, that's what I was amazed about.

[00:54:56] The very first day I started was one girl had left and he was watching her to make

[00:55:01] sure she didn't steal things.

[00:55:02] And I, I, I red flagged that for sure.

[00:55:04] And then that happened to me too.

[00:55:06] I was like, wow, this is just crazy.

[00:55:07] Like, what would I steal?

[00:55:08] Well, no, I, I, that was the thing with mine.

[00:55:12] The whole shop is open though.

[00:55:12] The whole shop, people are tattooing.

[00:55:15] Oh.

[00:55:15] I was like, I'm not going to come in here.

[00:55:17] The manager's here.

[00:55:18] Like, yeah, I'm going to come in here and just steal shit.

[00:55:21] Like what?

[00:55:22] That's crazy.

[00:55:23] Yeah.

[00:55:23] That's, that is crazy.

[00:55:24] Yeah.

[00:55:25] Because with me and there's cameras everywhere, like there's cameras, there's camera, cameras

[00:55:30] pretty much in a lot of places in the shop, but also like high security in my situation.

[00:55:37] But no, nobody was, it was during COVID.

[00:55:39] So nobody was there.

[00:55:40] But like, this was like a completely open shop.

[00:55:43] Like, yeah.

[00:55:44] But my mom was like, take pictures of everything.

[00:55:48] Like while you're there, like, you know, make sure.

[00:55:51] Yeah.

[00:55:51] Just in case he like says something's missing that you took.

[00:55:54] And I was like, mom.

[00:55:58] I was always glad my friend was there, even though he, I knew what he was doing.

[00:56:02] He was like, this is so weird.

[00:56:03] I don't know why I have to do that.

[00:56:03] I brought two people.

[00:56:05] I brought my boyfriend and his friend.

[00:56:07] Yeah.

[00:56:08] I brought him, well, I brought him just so he can help me pack, but also his boyfriend

[00:56:12] just so that, not his boyfriend, his friend.

[00:56:14] Yeah.

[00:56:15] His friend.

[00:56:16] We don't do that.

[00:56:18] That's one of the, that's why you have to read that book.

[00:56:22] He's like, no.

[00:56:23] Yeah.

[00:56:23] Cause we didn't, we didn't, I didn't, I didn't expect there to be anything, but I

[00:56:28] did not expect, um, him not to be there.

[00:56:35] I, I, you know, cause it's definitely typical for you to have somebody observe you as you

[00:56:41] get your stuff, you know, security leads you out and stuff like that, you know?

[00:56:46] But yeah, that's, that's ridiculous, dude, because everybody was there.

[00:56:51] Like what?

[00:56:51] I know.

[00:56:52] I already knew.

[00:56:53] Cause you, what this other girl was crazy.

[00:56:55] Cause she like was grabbing her own book and he's like, that's my book.

[00:56:59] And she's like, no, this is mine.

[00:57:00] And it was again, a full shop.

[00:57:02] And I was like, did she just get accused of stealing?

[00:57:05] Am I like, what the fuck?

[00:57:07] And then I was like, Oh, I'm accused of stealing as well.

[00:57:09] And then I didn't clean the station properly.

[00:57:12] And I was like, are you kidding?

[00:57:14] Like I left.

[00:57:15] Why in the world would I clean those?

[00:57:17] Like, yes.

[00:57:18] Yeah.

[00:57:19] Even my friend was like, I hope he doesn't, the guy doesn't hear this.

[00:57:22] Cause like my friend is still kind of like stuck there.

[00:57:25] Crazy.

[00:57:26] But I'm like, we're all like, this is wild.

[00:57:30] Like you're my, and then my friend the day, like week before it gets a fucking

[00:57:36] a crazy party thrown for her.

[00:57:38] I know.

[00:57:41] I'm like, this is so fucking funny.

[00:57:43] But I'm like, I got a party thrown for me.

[00:57:46] I would have had that like weird, like regret kind of thing.

[00:57:49] Or cause she kind of felt that a little bit like the, Oh, did I do the right

[00:57:53] thing?

[00:57:53] And I'm like, Oh, I don't feel that.

[00:57:55] So I'm like, glad it happened.

[00:57:57] Yeah.

[00:57:57] How, like I needed it to happen that way.

[00:57:59] I needed it to be the worst possible way.

[00:58:02] Yeah.

[00:58:02] To be able to like have a clean break.

[00:58:04] And I'm like, good.

[00:58:05] Cause it was unfair circumstances.

[00:58:07] He threw, he threw a curve balls at you that you never knew you'd have to hit

[00:58:12] and, you know, set standards that you didn't actually agree to.

[00:58:17] And it's a weird, weird standards too, because I can tell you, honestly, I've

[00:58:22] never done a full head.

[00:58:23] I have done the sides of a head.

[00:58:26] I've done the back of a head.

[00:58:28] I've done the top of it.

[00:58:29] I have never, I'm sorry, but I have never, I've never done a full fucking head.

[00:58:34] Like I was an apprentice.

[00:58:36] Did you do two heads, the back piece and three sleeves and hands?

[00:58:38] I was like, I think a good measure would have been design it.

[00:58:43] Like design them all tattooed it.

[00:58:47] You know, like my friend, Hey, like one of my good friends, literally who got me the job

[00:58:51] and who actually never wanted to go guess there again.

[00:58:55] He was like, I've never done a back piece.

[00:58:57] And I've been touching for almost like 15 years.

[00:59:00] Like this is, he was like, this is crazy.

[00:59:02] You don't need to go to great and glory.

[00:59:04] Like you need to go there.

[00:59:05] And you don't have to do those things.

[00:59:07] Like that's not, first of all, you don't even make that much money doing it.

[00:59:12] Honestly, because, because you can make a lot more money, just price pointing a banger,

[00:59:17] you know, you know, you're going to get done and people will just pay because they know

[00:59:21] they're going to get it done.

[00:59:22] Then you usually do things hourly with back pieces and you really have sick to that, you

[00:59:28] know, cause you know, it's a big thing with people.

[00:59:30] But if you think about it, if you're able to do a bunch of small tattoos within the day

[00:59:36] and you know, you're charging, you know, a sizeable amount for me, you can make a lot

[00:59:41] more for that and you can get quick and stuff like that.

[00:59:43] And then you're, you're being afforded the speed and the quality at the same time.

[00:59:48] And that's what the client's paying for.

[00:59:50] Right.

[00:59:50] And I don't like large scale.

[00:59:54] Yeah.

[00:59:54] When I was a painter, I never liked large.

[00:59:57] Like I never in my life want to do a back piece as one back.

[01:00:02] I do not want, I don't care.

[01:00:04] I would, I don't want to.

[01:00:06] I like, I like doing like pieces.

[01:00:09] Like that's like my style.

[01:00:11] Maybe eventually I might change my mind, but I'm, I don't think I am.

[01:00:15] I think it'd be cool if you did like a part of something and then you had like two other

[01:00:19] artists.

[01:00:19] That would be cool.

[01:00:19] That would be fun.

[01:00:20] I would do that.

[01:00:21] But I like, don't like doing large scale at all.

[01:00:25] Like I don't like it.

[01:00:26] I tried and I'm like, I get bored and I just, I enjoy.

[01:00:30] And I feel like, why not give somebody a better tattoo?

[01:00:33] Yeah.

[01:00:34] If this is what I enjoy.

[01:00:36] And this is what they want.

[01:00:37] Nobody's coming to me for a large scale color black back piece.

[01:00:40] That's a weird fucking standard to set, man.

[01:00:43] It is very like, you just made the shit up.

[01:00:47] You just, you just.

[01:00:48] I came up to you because everyone else was scared of you.

[01:00:51] And I was like, I deserve to be an artist now because it's in a fucking contract.

[01:00:54] And you're like, nope, you know what?

[01:00:55] You're going to have to do some crazy shit.

[01:00:57] And then everybody was like, he's crazy.

[01:01:00] Remember that he told you this.

[01:01:02] And I'm like, I don't care.

[01:01:03] I remember.

[01:01:04] Because I don't see anything.

[01:01:06] Seriously.

[01:01:07] And you're like, I signed a contract and it didn't say anything about this.

[01:01:10] And so like.

[01:01:11] Yeah.

[01:01:11] I'm like, this should have been in this weird thing that you made me sign.

[01:01:15] Right.

[01:01:16] And, and then, you know, when I was leaving, I heard contracts were coming out again.

[01:01:20] And I was like, I need to get out of here before this happens.

[01:01:21] Like I am not.

[01:01:23] I'm trying.

[01:01:24] And then like, never supported me in like any magazine I was ever in or this podcast or

[01:01:32] anything like cool that I did.

[01:01:33] I've never acknowledged.

[01:01:35] And I was awful.

[01:01:36] Like.

[01:01:37] Dude, that's next level though.

[01:01:39] Like.

[01:01:39] It's so cool.

[01:01:40] And now I'm at a shop where they like repost if I did something and I'm like, yes.

[01:01:44] Oh my God.

[01:01:45] Because it doesn't hurt you.

[01:01:47] It only helps the shop.

[01:01:49] Yes.

[01:01:49] That's dumb.

[01:01:50] It's stupid.

[01:01:52] Like we're not even competing against each other.

[01:01:54] Like we're not even the same artist.

[01:01:56] No.

[01:01:57] And it shouldn't even feel like that.

[01:01:59] And even if we were just as a friend, like I was like, I'm a friend level just to be like.

[01:02:04] Hey, that's so cool that you did that.

[01:02:05] You wouldn't be though, because there's something intrinsic about you as a person.

[01:02:12] Like it's, it is the tattoo, but especially with appointment only, you know, I can't say

[01:02:17] anything for like walking.

[01:02:19] Cause it's like, you know, it's like a happy meal tattoo, but like with a, with an appointment

[01:02:23] only, you know, your clients, they dig you, like you built a trust bond with them that they're

[01:02:30] agreeing to walk into that space with.

[01:02:32] And it's, it's, they like you, like that's part of it.

[01:02:37] Like, and they like the time.

[01:02:39] That's so weird to like think about, you know what I mean?

[01:02:41] Yeah.

[01:02:42] No, but it's, it's true because they, they could, I mean, you know, I, I don't, I think people

[01:02:49] genuinely like, um, the vibe and, and, and what I bring to the table, um, within the

[01:02:57] service within our time together and how we laugh.

[01:03:01] And, you know, there's something very neat when somebody hunts you down and they want

[01:03:05] your work.

[01:03:06] Cause they, they kind of share your personality a little bit.

[01:03:09] And that's very like, and then when they meet you and they're like, Oh my God, this person's

[01:03:14] the tits.

[01:03:15] Like they're awesome.

[01:03:17] That's my favorite part.

[01:03:18] Yeah.

[01:03:18] About tattooing.

[01:03:19] Like I'll have people ask me, they're like, tell me a terrible client story.

[01:03:21] I'm like, I really don't have any.

[01:03:23] Yeah.

[01:03:24] Yeah.

[01:03:25] And I'm like, so happy with that.

[01:03:27] Like, I'm nothing bad.

[01:03:28] What am I going to say about about my client?

[01:03:30] Like we're like the same people.

[01:03:31] Yeah.

[01:03:32] That's what I'm saying is like, you know, like the personalities mesh and that matters

[01:03:36] a lot.

[01:03:37] Cause I knew that in hair, like there were people there that I'm, I'm telling you, and I mean

[01:03:42] this with all like charity really wasn't that good of hairstylists.

[01:03:47] I had cut hair after them and I was like, Whoa, but like their personality was just, I

[01:03:53] mean they lit up a room.

[01:03:54] Yeah.

[01:03:55] Sometimes I'm like, I have some shit tattoos and I'm like, you're, I loved the person so

[01:04:00] much that I would go back to them.

[01:04:02] Like a hundred percent.

[01:04:03] Yeah.

[01:04:03] Because it was the experience.

[01:04:05] I want a good experience.

[01:04:07] Our whole job.

[01:04:08] And I'm like, I want to wear something that I'm like, I'm not traumatized because I got

[01:04:12] done.

[01:04:13] Cause it was really well done.

[01:04:15] And you're like, this was the worst experience I've ever had.

[01:04:16] Yeah.

[01:04:17] Yeah, exactly.

[01:04:18] I don't ever want to do that again.

[01:04:21] And I'm like, I don't want to be there.

[01:04:23] I also don't want to be with somebody who's like being completely just a fake, not real

[01:04:27] person.

[01:04:28] Yeah, dude.

[01:04:29] Totally.

[01:04:29] Cause you can totally tell people are just completely not real.

[01:04:33] I mean, I don't know.

[01:04:33] I've never really got tattooed by anybody who's pretending, but I've seen it now.

[01:04:37] Yeah.

[01:04:37] I've, I have too.

[01:04:38] I have too.

[01:04:39] Or just people who won't engage.

[01:04:41] Like sometimes I'm in a bad day.

[01:04:43] Like I'll have to fake being nice and then eventually faking makes me actually happy.

[01:04:47] Yes.

[01:04:48] Yes.

[01:04:48] And I would say, like, I've had people in the shop that are like, you're faking it.

[01:04:51] You're being so nice to your client.

[01:04:52] I'm like, no, I'm actually just being nice to my client.

[01:04:54] Cause I like my client.

[01:04:55] Just because.

[01:04:55] Yeah.

[01:04:55] So you're just projecting.

[01:04:57] Yeah.

[01:04:58] Yeah.

[01:04:58] So that means you're being, I can be in a bad mood, but I don't have to take it out on

[01:05:03] my client.

[01:05:04] They didn't do anything.

[01:05:05] No.

[01:05:06] I don't have to be addicted.

[01:05:07] Sometimes I'll be like, if I, if I'm not myself, I'm in a bad mood.

[01:05:11] And then I feel like saying it makes me not in a bad mood.

[01:05:14] No, it does because then they can heal you and they can help you.

[01:05:17] And it just kind of gets it out of the way.

[01:05:19] No, I totally find that because they're just like, dude, it's fine.

[01:05:23] You know, like, you know.

[01:05:24] Versus like hiding in just like, Oh, I fucking hate my life.

[01:05:27] Yeah.

[01:05:28] Cause you're going to shut down.

[01:05:30] Yeah.

[01:05:31] Like just in case I start crying, I'm in a bad mood.

[01:05:33] And then you're like, Oh, actually I'm not in a bad mood anymore.

[01:05:35] Just saying that like helps me.

[01:05:36] Thank you.

[01:05:37] Yeah.

[01:05:37] I just had to throw it out there.

[01:05:39] It's been a lot.

[01:05:41] I'm going to be the worst today.

[01:05:42] And then I ended up talking more than ever.

[01:05:44] I'm like, wow, sorry.

[01:05:45] Like, this is good.

[01:05:46] This is good.

[01:05:47] I do find that like my life's kind of going shitty.

[01:05:50] I have a lot to talk about.

[01:05:51] Like, it's kind of sucky that when your, your life's great, they're like, what's happening?

[01:05:55] I'm like, I don't know.

[01:05:56] My life's awesome.

[01:05:56] And then it's like it, like, I don't have any, I don't have any stories.

[01:06:00] I don't have any.

[01:06:01] I'm like, you told me a story.

[01:06:03] What's up with you?

[01:06:05] Like, personally?

[01:06:06] No.

[01:06:07] I feel like everything.

[01:06:08] Everything is in trambles.

[01:06:09] I'm just kidding.

[01:06:10] Yeah.

[01:06:11] I feel like it's just been a weird, like slow time for everybody.

[01:06:15] It is.

[01:06:16] And that's been hard to like get a, get around.

[01:06:19] But I feel like being positive is the only thing I can do.

[01:06:22] If I'm negative, it's just.

[01:06:24] There's nothing you can do about it.

[01:06:25] Yeah.

[01:06:26] Well, what's on the horizons next?

[01:06:27] Like, you know, what are you excited about this new shop?

[01:06:31] And, you know, like.

[01:06:32] I'm actually getting tattooed by Bob.

[01:06:35] Oh, that's awesome.

[01:06:37] Really?

[01:06:38] Dude, I'm so excited for you.

[01:06:41] Full circle moment a little bit.

[01:06:44] Yes.

[01:06:45] Yes.

[01:06:45] He is going to be at Paradise this year.

[01:06:48] I think.

[01:06:49] I'm fairly certain he's going to come.

[01:06:51] So, but I'm still happy.

[01:06:52] I was like, yeah, we met.

[01:06:55] But finally, and just for like a second.

[01:06:58] And then we're just, I think we're going to go to Rob Zombie and get tattooed.

[01:07:02] And I'm like, this is crazy.

[01:07:04] Because I remember a couple of years ago, we were trying to coordinate.

[01:07:07] And that all didn't work out.

[01:07:09] And it always.

[01:07:11] I don't think he went.

[01:07:12] And I think like it was still.

[01:07:14] It was just a bad time.

[01:07:15] No, I think I'm not sure if he went or not, but it didn't work out.

[01:07:20] And, you know, it is my birthday and just craziness.

[01:07:23] Yes.

[01:07:24] But it was the same with Pagoda just yesterday.

[01:07:26] I was meeting all these dope people.

[01:07:28] And I really, I was like, man, these people are here.

[01:07:31] And like, I'm meeting them.

[01:07:33] And it would be really dope to, to like get a tattoo from them.

[01:07:38] And like, they're fucking awesome.

[01:07:41] But then I was like, well, if I get tattooed, then I'm not going to make a full circle to meet

[01:07:45] all the rest of the people.

[01:07:47] And I really wanted to do that.

[01:07:49] And so when somebody like, I don't know, it was like an hour and they were like, oh,

[01:07:52] we're going to get tattooed.

[01:07:53] And I'm like, I'm freaking out right now.

[01:07:55] Like, I, I am so overwhelmed.

[01:07:57] I'm just trying to remember that.

[01:07:59] Like, like God willing, this is, I will be here again.

[01:08:04] Like I will meet these people again.

[01:08:07] I am a tattoo artist.

[01:08:08] I will have an opportunity.

[01:08:10] I know what I want.

[01:08:12] Like I just, this, this was, I really do want to meet all these people first because like,

[01:08:19] I, I genuinely want to have a connection, some conversations.

[01:08:23] Like, um, it's really important to me.

[01:08:27] And, and I, you get a vibe right away for a person, but I want to follow their work and

[01:08:30] stalk them for a little bit.

[01:08:32] And that's so cool that you're, you're getting tattooed.

[01:08:35] It makes it even cooler.

[01:08:36] You know, now I know I'm so excited.

[01:08:38] I was like, all right, this is a cool little moment.

[01:08:43] I'm excited.

[01:08:44] And Dane's coming and we're just going to like rock out.

[01:08:47] And I'm like, this is, that's awesome.

[01:08:50] And I'm in a better space now and a happier place.

[01:08:52] So I'm like, this is the perfect time.

[01:08:54] It is.

[01:08:54] It's very celebratory.

[01:08:56] Yeah.

[01:08:56] I was like, I don't know why this is such a perfect time to like talk to you.

[01:09:00] What are you getting?

[01:09:01] And where are you putting it?

[01:09:02] Or is it like, I'm going to get a vampire portrait.

[01:09:04] Nice.

[01:09:06] Perfect.

[01:09:06] And then I only have one more spot on my leg.

[01:09:08] Just one more.

[01:09:09] And I'm going to fill that.

[01:09:11] I've been saving it.

[01:09:12] Oh, I'm so happy.

[01:09:14] That's dope.

[01:09:15] Yeah.

[01:09:16] That'll be very, very, like a very cool like moment.

[01:09:20] That is amazing.

[01:09:21] I am so excited for you.

[01:09:23] I'm excited for the show that you're going to see rock out and then, you know, get tattooed.

[01:09:28] That's rad.

[01:09:30] And Bob's a really nice guy.

[01:09:32] He's very sweet.

[01:09:33] Yeah.

[01:09:34] Just such a good guy.

[01:09:35] And I've looked up to him for so long that I feel like it's going to be so cool.

[01:09:41] Oh, well, we're, we're hitting our, our time limit with you.

[01:09:44] I know I have to let you go, but like, I know this has been amazing.

[01:09:48] I'm so happy.

[01:09:49] Like, I'm so happy we got to reconnect.

[01:09:53] Yes.

[01:09:53] Yes.

[01:09:54] I was too, too much of a baby to do it before.

[01:09:58] And now I'm like, no, you want to get it.

[01:09:59] You want to get it out of the way.

[01:10:00] That's a good way to go.

[01:10:01] And for like, it's called the apprenticeship diaries or for other people.

[01:10:04] I know probably newer tattooers are listening.

[01:10:07] Yes.

[01:10:07] And I think it's important to maybe not be afraid to speak out, not be afraid to stand

[01:10:15] up for yourself, not be afraid to quit because there's always going to be something better

[01:10:20] out there.

[01:10:21] Yeah.

[01:10:21] I've had two, two interesting experiences and just like, it's scary and just follow

[01:10:29] your gut for sure.

[01:10:30] It'll always be fine.

[01:10:32] It'll, it'll, don't let, don't, don't let these people pressure you because they will.

[01:10:36] And yes.

[01:10:37] And you'll fall for it, which I have.

[01:10:38] And I'm just trying to project that you don't have to, we're trying to help the younger

[01:10:43] generation not do what we did.

[01:10:44] Yes.

[01:10:45] And, and kudos to you for having the cojones to go up there and just, you know, make it

[01:10:52] happen and crack that ice and say what needed to be said.

[01:10:55] And then now you're in a dope spot.

[01:10:57] I kind of want to like retouch base with you like in a couple months and just see after

[01:11:03] you've gotten tattooed by Bob and like, yeah, I'm so down.

[01:11:06] Let's do it.

[01:11:07] Yeah.

[01:11:07] Like, and just, I don't know, different seasons we'll be, we'll be rolling into, you know,

[01:11:13] a cooler times and stuff.

[01:11:15] There'll be lots of fun, like Halloween kind of things coming up that I'm sure that's exciting

[01:11:19] because that's definitely your vibe and you're going to be in a new shop able to like rip

[01:11:25] that open and play.

[01:11:27] I know.

[01:11:28] So I'm excited about all of that.

[01:11:30] I'm really excited.

[01:11:31] That's dope.

[01:11:31] All right, let's do it.

[01:11:32] I'm down.

[01:11:33] All right.

[01:11:34] Well, let's make that happen.

[01:11:36] Thank you so much.

[01:11:37] Thank you.

[01:11:38] It's always such a pleasure.

[01:11:39] It's like, I could talk to you for hours if my, if I didn't have to leave.

[01:11:43] Yeah.

[01:11:43] Yeah.

[01:11:43] You know, well, we'll, we'll have those times.

[01:11:46] I'm sure I need, I owe you a hug in person.

[01:11:49] You're way too cool.

[01:11:51] I know there's no COVID anymore.

[01:11:53] So I want to make it up to upstate New York.

[01:11:55] You should just come upstate.

[01:11:56] Fuck the city.

[01:11:57] Just come up here.

[01:11:58] No, I don't want to go to the city.

[01:11:59] I want to go to upstate.

[01:12:01] Yeah.

[01:12:01] And I tattoo it with sock tattoo up here.

[01:12:04] Awesome.

[01:12:05] So you should just do a guest spot up here.

[01:12:07] Yes.

[01:12:08] I've heard about flower city and Rochester and all of those things.

[01:12:11] And yeah, this is like a very cool, like chill studio right in Woodstock.

[01:12:16] It's like a Brooklyn guy.

[01:12:18] It's awesome.

[01:12:20] It's like my home away from home.

[01:12:21] Yeah.

[01:12:21] We'll stay in touch and make that happen.

[01:12:24] But for now, have a great day.

[01:12:27] And thank you so very much.

[01:12:28] Thank you so much.

[01:12:30] I'm so happy for you.

[01:12:34] You rock.

[01:12:35] Let's go.

[01:12:36] All right.

[01:12:37] So good to see you.

[01:12:38] Love you too.

[01:12:39] Thank you so much.

[01:12:40] My pleasure.

[01:12:41] My pleasure.

[01:12:42] Thank you.

[01:12:44] All right.

[01:12:44] Bye, baby.

[01:12:45] I'll text you.

[01:12:46] Yes.

[01:12:46] Yes.

[01:12:52] All right, everybody.

[01:12:53] That wraps it for Mary, at least for now.

[01:12:56] We're going to have a lot more to come later.

[01:12:59] I'm certain as she starts this next phase of her journey in tattooing, a very exciting

[01:13:04] next phase with a really cool studio.

[01:13:07] Just so you guys can follow her, and I do recommend that you do on IG.

[01:13:12] It's Miss, M-I-S-S, Vampira, V-A-M-P-I-R-A.

[01:13:19] All one word.

[01:13:21] Follow her.

[01:13:23] Celebrate with her.

[01:13:24] Be excited.

[01:13:25] And, yeah, you know, like watch how it all evolves.

[01:13:29] I think it's going to be really fun.

[01:13:31] I think there's going to be some awesome, you know, next level Vampira action happening.

[01:13:40] And we'll keep up, you know, we'll keep in touch, and we'll record more podcasts, and,

[01:13:46] you know, let everybody know.

[01:13:48] It's going to be really amazing.

[01:13:49] God bless you all.

[01:13:51] Thank you so much, Mary.

[01:13:53] This was a wonderful touchstone.

[01:13:55] It's always great for me.

[01:13:57] I love keeping in touch with you.

[01:13:59] You're a gem.

[01:14:00] I can't wait to give you a hug in real life at some point because I constantly do it in

[01:14:05] my heart all the time.

[01:14:07] Thank you, listeners, for your time and attention to this glorious podcast.

[01:14:13] I'm not ashamed to ask for this.

[01:14:17] If you go to our website, which is theapprenticeshipdiaries.com, there's a little button in the upper right-hand

[01:14:24] corner that says donate.

[01:14:25] If you've enjoyed this podcast and you really have gotten a lot out of it, please, please give back to it.

[01:14:32] You know, everything that you give will go back into this.

[01:14:37] That's a big thing that I want to offer as a tip for money management.

[01:14:43] Spend money to make money.

[01:14:44] You know, like that's a big thing with me.

[01:14:47] I usually put my money into making more money, buying tools, buying crafts, buying things that I can expand upon and generate more income with.

[01:14:57] So do that and I promise you it'll be abundant.

[01:15:02] It'll be abundant in all things.

[01:15:04] God bless you all and have a powerful, powerful week.

[01:15:11] Thanks for listening.

[01:15:12] You can find The Apprenticeship Diaries on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.

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