Ep. 236 "A Wise Choice" (Diary Entry 1:3 with Kevin Kline)

[00:00:00] Hello and Happy Tuesday Diary listeners. It is a Tuesday. I am doing this Tuesday. I'll tell you what, I could definitely use some time management education, but procrastination I have made a friend and it's it's a bit of a it's a bit of a crutch, I think. In any event,

[00:00:29] I do think that it it helps push things into a very nice pressure point for me. Today is November the fifth. Remember, remember the fifth of November. So this is election day. I hope you all exercise your right your right to vote or not vote. It's a it's a wonderful right. As in some countries, they don't have an option, you actually

[00:00:58] will get fined if you do not vote. So if you have elected not to vote, it is it is for you to decide and praise God for the kind of country that gives you the option. I hope it stays that way. So in in any case, we are starting our first part of our three part diary entry with Kevin

[00:01:22] Kevin Kline. Kevin Kline, Kevin Kline, not the actor. Not to be confused, though, equally an awesome person. And we are calling the first piece or I am calling I am calling the first piece of his diary entries with us a wise choice. And you know, I thought it was apropos for today, since we all must make wise choices. Enjoy listeners.

[00:01:54] Welcome to the apprenticeship diaries where raw meets refined. Let's be real. We're still working on what it took, what it takes and the stories that are made. Join us as we learn from professionals about how their stories begin.

[00:02:16] Hey, not much, man. I just got back from weeding more of this garden in front of my church. It's pretty crazy. So this is about as good as I can look right now.

[00:02:29] I like being out in nature, you know, and there's something rewarding about doing like outdoors work, because as people, we were meant to be out in the sun out doing things, you know, we're not meant to be like inside watching TV all day.

[00:02:44] True, true. And and truly, had I not like sprayed like a lot of like chemicals on my body, it probably would have been better for me.

[00:02:57] But I think I came across this big kind of nest of ticks that I was like, oh, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna cover myself.

[00:03:07] So it could have been it could have been. But, you know, it's it's a it's a gamble with ticks, you know, you don't want Lyme disease.

[00:03:16] But at the same time, you don't want all those roundup chemicals, too.

[00:03:19] But hey, it's better to wash chemicals off than to have Lyme disease.

[00:03:25] I'll you know, I'll take what comes.

[00:03:27] And that's why I go to church is to pray and put my life in the hands of God and just say, you know what, dude, when you're ready to take me, I'm ready to go.

[00:03:36] It's funny you say that because.

[00:03:39] We always try to like control things, but it's so funny how we're not in control of anything.

[00:03:45] We're just all we can control is our reactions to stuff.

[00:03:49] And everybody nobody's perfect.

[00:03:52] We all react to things sometimes where we're like, damn, I should have done stuff differently.

[00:03:57] I'm sorry, I can't cuss on your podcast.

[00:03:59] You can. It's a tattoo.

[00:04:01] I mean, it's a.

[00:04:03] It's a professional podcast, so you can.

[00:04:07] I mean.

[00:04:08] In our profession, that's fine.

[00:04:11] Right. I mean, it is we do.

[00:04:13] I'm going to take these off because actually these I can hear you on my computer.

[00:04:17] So there's no point to me even having these on.

[00:04:20] But at the same time, I do want to be professional and I don't want to stop.

[00:04:24] I mean, start dropping like bombs and things like that.

[00:04:27] I'd like to at least while we're doing this stop like talking like a sailor, you know, even though I like, you know, presenting myself in a professional atmosphere anyway.

[00:04:37] So, yeah, let's whenever you're ready to get started.

[00:04:42] Let's introduce you because, you know, people who witness this are going to only, you know, hear audio.

[00:04:48] So everybody, let's welcome Kevin Kline on here.

[00:04:52] Very fancy name you got, by the way.

[00:04:54] No, I'm sorry.

[00:04:58] You go.

[00:04:58] I don't mean to interrupt you.

[00:04:59] No, this is your show, man.

[00:05:01] I'm sorry.

[00:05:02] Oh, no.

[00:05:03] I get the Calvin Klein jokes all the time.

[00:05:05] I get the Kevin Cosner jokes.

[00:05:07] Everybody says, oh, Keanu Reeves for some reason.

[00:05:10] They're like, you're the lookalike.

[00:05:12] So you are.

[00:05:12] I hear it all.

[00:05:14] You actually look a lot like my friend Rome, but the much younger version of him because he's like more my age.

[00:05:23] And oh, do you mind selling yours?

[00:05:26] Your age?

[00:05:27] Yeah, I'm 32.

[00:05:28] OK, so yeah, like you look younger than what you are.

[00:05:31] Bravo, man.

[00:05:32] Yeah.

[00:05:32] Yeah, yeah.

[00:05:33] I wouldn't have guessed that.

[00:05:35] I would have played one of the high school Disney kids, shave everything off.

[00:05:38] What's up, guys?

[00:05:43] I know, man.

[00:05:44] For real.

[00:05:45] I think Rome is like a little older than me.

[00:05:48] I don't want to.

[00:05:48] I don't want to, you know, but he looks good, too.

[00:05:51] He looks really, really good.

[00:05:53] I'll be 43 very soon.

[00:05:55] So like.

[00:05:56] No way.

[00:05:57] No way.

[00:05:58] I would have guessed you around my age.

[00:06:00] Awesome.

[00:06:02] That's that's wonderful.

[00:06:05] That's wonderful.

[00:06:06] But I totally can see the Keanu Reeves thing, but I can see it in him, too.

[00:06:11] I have to like I'll have to like share his his Facebook page.

[00:06:16] He's an interesting guy, too.

[00:06:18] Very spiritual.

[00:06:20] I first ran into him.

[00:06:23] Hopefully you don't mind.

[00:06:24] He got a tattoo at Burning Man, I think it was some shit like that.

[00:06:28] And it was like not healing well, as one could expect from getting a tattoo at Burning Man.

[00:06:33] Yeah.

[00:06:33] Yeah.

[00:06:33] And he was like, what do I do?

[00:06:35] And I was like, go.

[00:06:37] Need antibiotics, bro.

[00:06:39] Yeah.

[00:06:40] I mean, infections happen.

[00:06:42] And yeah, it's due to.

[00:06:45] After care.

[00:06:46] Nine times out of 10.

[00:06:48] And for me, it's always I've had multiple tattoos get infected because I didn't care about taking care of them.

[00:06:55] But also my cat.

[00:06:56] Oh, yeah.

[00:06:58] That's just it's accessible for infections.

[00:07:01] You are going to get an infection if you just have an open wound next to a dog or cat and just rub it all over and not wash it.

[00:07:09] Yeah.

[00:07:09] And it's weird, too, because it's, you know, our bodies are, you know, sometimes they're on highs when it comes to the immunity and it can it can totally evade.

[00:07:20] And then other times they're just really susceptible.

[00:07:23] Right.

[00:07:24] You know, so I don't want to I don't want to say any shade to Burning Man.

[00:07:29] I don't even really remember if that's entirely it.

[00:07:32] So, Rome, I apologize if I'm airing your dirty laundry.

[00:07:36] But I think we met some other time prior to like he had wanted to get tattooed and then that fell through.

[00:07:44] And then he contacted me.

[00:07:46] We've been friends on Facebook for a really long time.

[00:07:48] Sweet guy.

[00:07:49] Really sweet guy.

[00:07:50] And very spiritually sound.

[00:07:53] Very, very kind person.

[00:07:55] So I don't like I don't want it.

[00:07:57] I don't want it to seem like he's not an awesome guy, but you look a lot like him.

[00:08:01] No.

[00:08:02] Yeah.

[00:08:03] He's good looking.

[00:08:04] He's a good looking guy.

[00:08:06] So where do you work these days?

[00:08:09] Tattoo icons.

[00:08:11] Tattoo icons.

[00:08:12] It looks like a neat place.

[00:08:14] Are you there right now or is this your your house?

[00:08:16] No, no, I'm we.

[00:08:18] The shop is closed Mondays and Wednesdays.

[00:08:21] But Sundays, I'm appointment only.

[00:08:23] Right on.

[00:08:24] So I go in on Sundays.

[00:08:25] Somebody books, you know, puts that deposit down.

[00:08:29] And we're I mean, it's usually I don't get a lot of requests for Sunday.

[00:08:35] There is hit or miss.

[00:08:36] Sometimes people want to come in.

[00:08:38] Sometimes people don't.

[00:08:39] You know, it's it's kind of like a weekday in that sense.

[00:08:42] Yeah.

[00:08:43] You know?

[00:08:43] Yeah.

[00:08:44] No, totally.

[00:08:45] You know, people try to take.

[00:08:49] I had somebody hit me up last night.

[00:08:51] He's a good friend.

[00:08:52] We just went to a tattoo convention together and she sent me the IG for the oddities convention

[00:08:59] that's going on.

[00:09:00] She's like, you have to go tomorrow.

[00:09:02] You and Rico.

[00:09:02] And I was like, I'm not I'm going to church tomorrow.

[00:09:06] OK, you just went to Wildwood, right?

[00:09:09] No, no.

[00:09:10] Oh, I'm sorry.

[00:09:11] I'm mixing so many people up.

[00:09:13] I know you went to one recently, but I'm seeing different conventions for around here.

[00:09:18] And I know that was one of them.

[00:09:20] No, but I it leaves an in for me to tell you where I did go, which is great because I would

[00:09:26] like everybody to go, including you.

[00:09:28] I think it's like one of the best tattoo conventions I've ever been to.

[00:09:31] I can only pray that they'll they'll accept me one day and let me be into there because

[00:09:37] it's an invite only show, which I really like about that.

[00:09:41] It's yeah, it's Pagoda Pagoda City Tattoo Festival.

[00:09:47] And that's in PA.

[00:09:49] And it's really good.

[00:09:51] It's really, really very traditional tattooing.

[00:09:56] And like just like drool worthy people there.

[00:10:04] Yeah, Derek Noble was there.

[00:10:06] Bill Canales was there.

[00:10:08] Let's see.

[00:10:09] I don't want to leave it.

[00:10:10] There were so many people that are just been iconic for forever, like the foundation of

[00:10:15] tattooing, like like in it for like 30 years and still tattooing.

[00:10:19] You hear a lot of coil machines and stuff like that?

[00:10:21] Less than you think.

[00:10:22] But yeah, there was that.

[00:10:24] There was there was that.

[00:10:26] It was more the style, you know, like I think a lot of them.

[00:10:31] Um, they have converted to the newer tools in a lot of senses just because it's easier to

[00:10:38] travel with.

[00:10:39] Yes.

[00:10:40] You know, easier, easier on everything.

[00:10:43] You don't have to set up at a convention.

[00:10:45] It's faster breakdown, faster cleanup, especially I don't know how many clients they're going

[00:10:50] to see in a day.

[00:10:51] It's it's don't get me wrong.

[00:10:54] I absolutely love coils and I love the I love the history of tattooing.

[00:11:00] I think it's I think it's wild where it's come from.

[00:11:03] But there's give me an FK irons flux any day.

[00:11:08] And I'm I'm happy to put a coil in my hand.

[00:11:11] I'm happy, too.

[00:11:12] But the minute I have to start tinkering with it, that's when you see the mechanic come

[00:11:16] out to me that mechanics, they have a very specific phrase, which is I'm not going to

[00:11:22] repeat here because I want to stay professional.

[00:11:24] But they just cuss the whole time until they fix it.

[00:11:27] That works.

[00:11:28] That gets it out, man.

[00:11:29] It avoids throwing it across the room.

[00:11:32] Yeah.

[00:11:33] Yeah.

[00:11:33] Can't do that.

[00:11:35] Definitely can't do that.

[00:11:37] Don't get me wrong.

[00:11:38] Those workhorse irons machines are incredible.

[00:11:41] Yeah, they are.

[00:11:42] Get yourself a nice fine liner or power liner.

[00:11:45] Oh, my God.

[00:11:47] That is a tip top machine.

[00:11:49] But but put it put a nice pin machine in my hand.

[00:11:54] Give me a nice FK irons.

[00:11:55] I am happy.

[00:11:56] Yeah.

[00:11:57] Yeah.

[00:11:58] No, I that's what I'm using right now is a flux.

[00:12:00] So I hear you.

[00:12:02] Nice machine.

[00:12:04] Yeah.

[00:12:04] I started using it after I visited 10th Sanctum in in Omaha, Nebraska.

[00:12:11] I was assuming because there was so much dope, like traditional work coming out of there.

[00:12:17] The owner was the only person that was loyal to the coil.

[00:12:20] And it was.

[00:12:22] But like everybody else.

[00:12:24] And they didn't use the flux.

[00:12:25] They use the Cheyenne.

[00:12:26] But everybody was on pens.

[00:12:28] And they were like, yeah, we can we can do the same things.

[00:12:31] And I just watched their travel game.

[00:12:34] And they were showing me like these little things that they were like packing all their wares in.

[00:12:39] And I was like, I really got to figure this out and get in consolidate a little bit.

[00:12:43] That's both of us.

[00:12:45] The past.

[00:12:47] Oh, yeah.

[00:12:48] You.

[00:12:48] But I'd like to have more be prepared than come with stuff and be like, oh, my God, I forgot X, Y and Z.

[00:12:55] And here I am going, I really wish I had this.

[00:12:59] So I overpack.

[00:13:01] Yeah.

[00:13:02] The thing, too, that I really liked about Pagoda was how everybody set up their like booth.

[00:13:11] Everybody was very individual and they had really good style for their booth.

[00:13:17] And it was very in alignment with them.

[00:13:20] It wasn't just their art.

[00:13:22] It was just all of them.

[00:13:24] Like it everything matched.

[00:13:26] Like they match their booth, the presentation.

[00:13:29] Some of them only put a little bit down for you to like take in each thing, you know, very solidly.

[00:13:36] And then other people, they had a whole bunch of stuff, but it was all like amazing.

[00:13:40] And I even like what people choose to put their candy in.

[00:13:43] Like, oh, that's a neat little vessel that you put in.

[00:13:46] But they weren't involved in Beyond.

[00:13:47] Yeah.

[00:13:48] Yeah.

[00:13:48] Yeah.

[00:13:48] I mean, they did not stay with just like, you know, you get the traditional black tablecloth that you, you know, that they give you at a convention.

[00:13:59] Every single booth had its own like drapery on it and style look to it.

[00:14:09] It was really, really cool.

[00:14:09] I mean, that's how you can tell that they've been doing it for a while.

[00:14:13] They've even gotten their like, you know, their booth presentation down to an art.

[00:14:18] So it was really cool.

[00:14:22] Oh, I'm sorry.

[00:14:23] I was about to just talk about conventions.

[00:14:26] It's the Baltimore convention.

[00:14:27] We did put together a really nice booth and shout out to my coworkers.

[00:14:31] We did a really nice job there.

[00:14:34] We had a lot of fun.

[00:14:35] But yeah, I understand what you're saying.

[00:14:39] It's like you have to bring your own decorations and you have to really sell yourself.

[00:14:44] Because otherwise, if you just come to tattoo and you don't have anything to show off, like who you are, what your shop is, it's literally cloth.

[00:14:54] They give you a cardboard thing with a trash bag in it.

[00:14:59] And they're like, there you go.

[00:15:00] There's a trash can.

[00:15:01] And voila, tattoo.

[00:15:03] You know, how about it?

[00:15:04] Yep.

[00:15:05] Was that because you're a relatively newer artist at this point?

[00:15:09] Was that your first convention or have you had done others?

[00:15:12] That was my first one working.

[00:15:14] I've been to a handful, but that was my first one tattooing at.

[00:15:19] That's awesome.

[00:15:19] Well, how long have you been tattooing now?

[00:15:22] Professionally, just under two years.

[00:15:24] Nice.

[00:15:25] Nice.

[00:15:25] That's awesome.

[00:15:26] That's a good timeline.

[00:15:27] Yeah.

[00:15:29] And what were you doing beforehand?

[00:15:31] Oh, God.

[00:15:33] All sorts of different.

[00:15:34] I was a.

[00:15:35] So the long.

[00:15:37] I'll give you the short story.

[00:15:38] Just before this, I was a delivery driver and just don't scratch it.

[00:15:44] You know, going to people's houses, got a lot of negative feedback from that.

[00:15:52] But I did get to work it while I was doing that.

[00:15:55] I got in shops like here and there of, you know what?

[00:15:59] You can tattoo in my shop for just to try you out.

[00:16:02] And then I talked to other shops and they'd be like, oh, well, we don't have a position.

[00:16:07] But if you have any clients and you want to come sort of thing.

[00:16:11] And so, I mean, I did that for a short time because it was just so hard to get in places.

[00:16:17] Other places would just laugh you out or other places.

[00:16:19] It would just be like, oh, man, you know, for a fact that they are not going to hire you.

[00:16:26] But it's funny, I actually got hired somewhere else before Icons.

[00:16:32] I was in contact with Icons first, but then I got hired somewhere else.

[00:16:36] And it just made sense for me at the time to be on percentage as opposed to booth rent.

[00:16:43] So I went to Icons and it was there was walk-ins, you know, it was opportunity to build.

[00:16:50] It wasn't exactly just more for an established artist that has their own clientele, which at the time I had a select few, which wasn't exactly enough to eat off of.

[00:17:05] It wasn't enough to pay my bills.

[00:17:07] So it worked out better how things and everything life works out for a reason.

[00:17:12] You know, you it's so funny how that happens.

[00:17:15] Life just puts you where you need to be at the time that you're supposed to be there.

[00:17:20] Yeah.

[00:17:20] Yeah.

[00:17:21] I mean, you know, when I started, that was pretty much the advice that I was given was not not to scratch out of my house.

[00:17:28] I never got that advice, though.

[00:17:29] I did do it.

[00:17:31] Just so everybody knows.

[00:17:34] Yeah.

[00:17:35] A lot of people did.

[00:17:36] A lot of people did.

[00:17:37] I know because I've had them on my show.

[00:17:41] They've told me they've they've recorded it.

[00:17:44] It's out there.

[00:17:46] So I know they did.

[00:17:48] But there was there was a lot less access to information.

[00:17:52] And this is pretty much I walked into it was Saints and Sinners.

[00:17:56] And I asked about an apprenticeship and it was one of their artists.

[00:18:00] He was very sweet.

[00:18:01] He was like, you know, honestly, of great art.

[00:18:03] But you're not going to get hired here.

[00:18:06] Nobody wants to apprentice anybody here.

[00:18:09] The owner, maybe.

[00:18:10] But he's not he's not going to make time for it.

[00:18:12] Oh, he's like, you might be you know, you might get some luck in doing flash, you know, and designing flash because of the time people would buy flash.

[00:18:22] Well, I mean, it's it still is now.

[00:18:25] It's just that.

[00:18:27] It's kind of taken over.

[00:18:29] Well, there was.

[00:18:31] There was like whole basically, you know, how like stock photography is.

[00:18:36] OK, like how they sell it.

[00:18:39] So there's there.

[00:18:40] There were sites, websites where you could go and you could work a deal with somebody who basically you just submit rights for like a year of your flash.

[00:18:51] And you just have to have the artwork and the line work and they'll sell it for you.

[00:18:56] They'll print it for you.

[00:18:57] They'll ship it for you.

[00:18:58] Now, you only get 30 percent commission.

[00:19:01] But yeah, they're doing the they're doing all of the marketing and they're doing all the sales.

[00:19:06] Yeah.

[00:19:07] We get a higher.

[00:19:08] It's kind of like royalties for for anything, for being an actor, for being an author, that sort of thing.

[00:19:13] So it makes sense.

[00:19:14] Yep, absolutely.

[00:19:15] So I did that and I didn't get far on that, but I did make flash and I was, you know, guided to make it.

[00:19:23] So that was fun.

[00:19:24] But yeah, he was like, basically what you're going to have to do is work in a shitty shop and then you're going to have to work in a less shitty shop and then a less shitty shop.

[00:19:32] And that's and I was like, well, that's shitty.

[00:19:35] And he was like, yeah, everybody thinks that.

[00:19:38] Oh, my God, I'm going to buy a machine or that they say I'm going to buy a kit.

[00:19:42] I'm going to get a gun off of Amazon.

[00:19:44] And that's I hear I'm sure you hear it all the time.

[00:19:48] And they're like, oh, I'm going to just start tattooing myself.

[00:19:51] And it's a I hear from the heard from people.

[00:19:55] Oh, it's a great side hustle.

[00:19:56] I'll make money this way.

[00:19:57] But it is not this thing.

[00:20:00] You just pick up a machine, start making making money on.

[00:20:03] You just don't start making it like that to pay your bills.

[00:20:06] It's like, good God, you have to actually like get somewhere and gain clientele and gain people's trust.

[00:20:14] And a lot of it has to come from you just giving away work until you get to a level where it's like, you know what?

[00:20:22] This has quality and potential.

[00:20:25] But so many people think, oh, it's just I'm just going to jump into this and start making money.

[00:20:29] It's like, well, no.

[00:20:30] And it sucks.

[00:20:32] It sucks in the beginning.

[00:20:33] And you get discouraged.

[00:20:35] You get disheartened.

[00:20:36] You get you get clowned.

[00:20:37] You get you're only as good as your most recent tattoo.

[00:20:41] Sometimes you hit.

[00:20:42] Sometimes you don't.

[00:20:43] And even great artists.

[00:20:45] I've some of my favorite artists have even said their process is they have a design.

[00:20:51] They're like, this is awesome.

[00:20:53] I'm so excited.

[00:20:53] They get into it.

[00:20:54] And they're like, all right, here we go.

[00:20:55] They get midway through like, wow, this isn't how it's turned out to be.

[00:20:59] This sucks.

[00:21:00] Oh, my God.

[00:21:01] I hate it.

[00:21:01] Oh, my God.

[00:21:02] I suck.

[00:21:02] I've ruined my career.

[00:21:03] Then they get done with it.

[00:21:04] And they're like, let me look at it.

[00:21:06] How does it look?

[00:21:07] Wow, it's not bad.

[00:21:08] Oh, I like it.

[00:21:09] Wow, I love it.

[00:21:10] So, I mean, I feel like that's that's a process for all.

[00:21:12] But we all second guess ourselves.

[00:21:14] We all have that self-doubt and that imposter syndrome kicks in.

[00:21:19] I mean, it's but so many people think you just pick up a tattoo machine.

[00:21:23] You're like, oh, man, this is going to be cool.

[00:21:26] I'm going to be a quote unquote tattoo artist now.

[00:21:28] It's like, well, technically, no, you're not.

[00:21:32] Like, you don't really like you earned your way in this.

[00:21:37] And even after you've earned your way, like you're still earning your way.

[00:21:43] Like, it's just it's not a jump in and, hey, I've joined the party.

[00:21:49] Nobody cares if you're part of the crew or not.

[00:21:51] They only care about what you contribute and what hands you shake and how good you are and

[00:21:57] what and how you present yourself.

[00:22:00] It's it's not, oh, I picked up a machine.

[00:22:03] Now I'm part of the crew.

[00:22:04] Well, no, you're not.

[00:22:05] So I get it.

[00:22:06] Yeah, you do go from those.

[00:22:08] This sucks to this sucks to this sucks.

[00:22:10] This doesn't suck.

[00:22:11] This doesn't suck.

[00:22:13] OK, I'm making it.

[00:22:14] I'm getting to the place.

[00:22:16] And I feel like there's always levels in everything, every aspect of life.

[00:22:20] There's just, you know, but so many people want to they don't want to do the beginner phase.

[00:22:26] So many people in especially with Amazon and how things have been.

[00:22:32] And I'm saying for tattooing particularly.

[00:22:35] So many people have just seen how it is.

[00:22:39] And COVID was a big one.

[00:22:41] Oh, my God.

[00:22:41] We saw with COVID.

[00:22:43] And I heard this college campuses.

[00:22:47] These kids were buying tattoo machines to create because they had nothing to do.

[00:22:51] And they were just putting out piss poor work.

[00:22:54] And well, what did you think was going to happen?

[00:22:56] You haven't learned anything.

[00:22:58] YouTube is not an ideal teacher for this.

[00:23:02] Like you it takes an experienced artist to see what another artist is doing.

[00:23:07] You go, oh, I see what you're doing.

[00:23:09] But even then, it's it's best to have somebody with you showing you and then be in a place where you can build a place where you can grow.

[00:23:18] And what what is it with buying this stuff and not learning anything about cross contamination?

[00:23:25] And you see it, too, with people that get into this and they just don't care.

[00:23:30] It's like, do you really want to put your clients in a jeopardizing situation with their health?

[00:23:37] And do you want to put yourself in something jeopardizing and stuff that you cannot?

[00:23:42] There's things you possibly can't come back from.

[00:23:46] Yeah.

[00:23:46] Yeah.

[00:23:47] So I do.

[00:23:48] That was my little rant.

[00:23:49] But no, no, it's good.

[00:23:51] That's why I have you on.

[00:23:52] And I was thinking that I was like, this is why I have them on the show, because like, you know, you're you're more like tuned into this generation.

[00:24:01] Because honestly, I don't have a lot of people.

[00:24:04] I have had a couple of people approach me that have bought their own machine.

[00:24:09] But the more than that I have, because I'm in that age group now.

[00:24:14] Hey, my kid really is an artist.

[00:24:16] And like, how do they get into this?

[00:24:18] And I'm like, first thing is they need to talk to me.

[00:24:21] I'm not talking to you about this.

[00:24:25] No.

[00:24:25] When did this become the norm for mommy and daddy to do the interview for me?

[00:24:31] And, oh, I can't I can't possibly do anything until it's just given to me.

[00:24:37] And, oh, you know, I showed up and now I want I want sixty thousand dollars a year because I showed up.

[00:24:43] When did this become the norm?

[00:24:45] I mean, I don't know.

[00:24:47] I mean, I'm sure there's always been parents like that, like that have, you know, my parents had a very interesting in between because they were professionals and they were hairstylists.

[00:24:59] Well, not my mom, but my dad.

[00:25:01] So they own their own salon.

[00:25:02] So people will come in all the time.

[00:25:04] And, you know, if they met somebody of a certain profession that they thought could really help out, they would inquire about certain things.

[00:25:12] But it wasn't like they would do it like like you just said, they wouldn't do the.

[00:25:16] And I don't even think that that's what it is.

[00:25:18] I think that it is.

[00:25:23] Parents, because they don't know, they don't know anything about tattooing.

[00:25:26] They don't know how to get into it.

[00:25:28] And so I think they were just, you know, a lot of them were like, how do how do they get into it?

[00:25:33] And what I tell them always is, is like, well, if your kid's an artist, just have them do art.

[00:25:38] Just buy them art supplies, because the reality is there you're not going to be able to afford what they're going to need to do the profession.

[00:25:50] Well, because a good machine costs like probably a bare minimum.

[00:25:57] I mean, well, no, that's a that's a that's like what we're using.

[00:26:00] I'm just saying that like professional artists.

[00:26:02] Yeah, a good like a good even a good cheapo version of ours is like, you know, 200 bucks.

[00:26:09] So like and that they're going to struggle with.

[00:26:13] And that's just the machine.

[00:26:14] That's not the cartridges.

[00:26:15] They're not going to have a variety of cartridges.

[00:26:18] I'm like, then you need ink.

[00:26:20] They don't know what to get.

[00:26:21] They don't know where to purchase this from.

[00:26:24] Right.

[00:26:24] Yeah.

[00:26:25] Technically, you can you can get stuff from those big distributors that everybody talks about Amazon now.

[00:26:32] But I've heard the same thing with the parents saying, oh, my kids are really good artists.

[00:26:37] And it's like, well, yeah, the best thing you can do is have them speak to tattoo shops and have them seek out an apprenticeship.

[00:26:47] Because without that, I mean, I had an apprenticeship back in 2017, but I went to scratching afterwards, which was made me in love with the history of tattooing.

[00:26:58] And my mentor was a very old school guy who's from started tattooing in the 90s.

[00:27:04] So he had that loyal to the coil attitude and he had that old school mindset, which I'm in love with.

[00:27:13] I very much I like I guess you could say I'm like more.

[00:27:19] Well, definitely millennial.

[00:27:20] But in between when it comes to tattooing where I can I can vibe with the younger generation, but I love the older generation.

[00:27:28] So I'm kind of like I'm like the bridge gap, you know.

[00:27:32] Yeah.

[00:27:34] Right.

[00:27:35] Yeah.

[00:27:35] I tell them to come in and talk to people.

[00:27:39] And that's that's the best thing they can do as opposed to telling them, oh, you can get this here, here and here.

[00:27:45] Well, what does that do for their kid?

[00:27:48] That does absolutely nothing for their kid.

[00:27:51] And if I did give them a list of if we did give them information of what to do to get started, it would be an overload.

[00:27:57] It would be it would be an overload of information and then nothing would get done right because it's just it's too much to process.

[00:28:06] That's why there's there's steps, you know.

[00:28:09] I think that's a great piece of advice because I didn't give that advice.

[00:28:13] I that's that's good advice, though, to have them come in and talk to tattooers, because I will say this.

[00:28:20] I've I've I've encountered really good artists who when it came time to then like, you know, they said they wanted to be tattoo artists.

[00:28:30] But then I think when they were really approached with the possibility of it and then realized, oh, shit, I have to do this on people.

[00:28:37] Like, I got to like people time.

[00:28:40] Different nerves.

[00:28:41] You pick up the machine.

[00:28:43] It's like, oh, my God, I'm making something permanent.

[00:28:45] And there are some people that I've seen excellent put a pencil in their hand.

[00:28:51] They are excellent artists.

[00:28:52] But it's just it's not the same medium of art.

[00:28:55] It doesn't translate when you're when you're put with a tattoo machine in your hand.

[00:28:58] Yeah, you it's a different medium.

[00:29:00] It's how do you do?

[00:29:03] And that's just technically tattooing.

[00:29:04] I'm just saying that, like, I think they realize, oh, shit, I am actually an introvert.

[00:29:09] Like like I do art because I literally don't people.

[00:29:13] It takes a certain person to want to do this job as a profession and a career.

[00:29:20] You can't.

[00:29:22] This isn't.

[00:29:23] And I have nothing against this because there's still people in the industry that are from this era that I love very much.

[00:29:31] But the biker days of tattooing are over where you could essentially be an asshole and be like, I don't care.

[00:29:37] Come in, get tattooed, get out of my shop.

[00:29:40] Well, that doesn't exist anymore.

[00:29:41] You have to be a people pleaser.

[00:29:43] You have to be a people person.

[00:29:45] And you essentially have to make friends with your clients.

[00:29:48] Otherwise, this is not going to work.

[00:29:51] Yeah.

[00:29:52] Yeah.

[00:29:52] No, I mean, totally.

[00:29:54] I I.

[00:29:56] I would have to agree.

[00:29:58] But, you know, they and.

[00:30:02] I think that.

[00:30:06] Yeah, I agree with you.

[00:30:08] I don't know what I was going to say about that.

[00:30:09] Well, if you have a different varying viewer opinion, I'd love to go deep into this topic.

[00:30:15] No, no, no.

[00:30:15] I, I was going to say, like, I definitely I've I've come across the shops that still have a bristly kind of attitude.

[00:30:25] But it's more just like.

[00:30:28] You're welcome.

[00:30:29] Well, no, I mean, I think it's the culture that the client is actually looking for.

[00:30:33] It's kind of like the the crabby dicks kind of thing.

[00:30:36] Like they go in there because they want to get something rough and tough and old school.

[00:30:40] Yeah.

[00:30:41] They want to be insulted by their waiter.

[00:30:42] You know, like, you know what I'm saying?

[00:30:44] Like, no, I'm good.

[00:30:46] No, thanks.

[00:30:46] Yeah.

[00:30:46] But that's the thing is that we've kind of.

[00:30:49] Yeah, we've hit this surplus of like styles and styles that even go beyond the tattooing.

[00:30:55] It goes to how do you people and how do you friend and how do you how do you express yourself?

[00:31:01] And I think.

[00:31:02] Absolutely.

[00:31:02] I remember when I first started using a rotary machine and it was a it was a Cheyenne and it was real quiet.

[00:31:11] And my friend Bob is like, you're going to tattoo me with that.

[00:31:15] Where's the sound?

[00:31:17] Like, that's not a tattoo machine.

[00:31:18] And I was like, oh, it's going to hurt.

[00:31:20] It don't.

[00:31:21] Right.

[00:31:21] Right.

[00:31:22] Don't let the silence fool you.

[00:31:23] It's going to light your ass up.

[00:31:26] What machine was it?

[00:31:27] Because I can tell you my first professional rotary was a Cheyenne, too.

[00:31:31] I still have it.

[00:31:31] I love it.

[00:31:32] Oh, it was a Hawk.

[00:31:33] It was OK.

[00:31:34] It was the OG original.

[00:31:35] OK, cool.

[00:31:36] Cool.

[00:31:37] Yeah.

[00:31:37] Um, mine was the Solanova, but it was RCA.

[00:31:41] But you I got a critical battery pack for it.

[00:31:43] So nice.

[00:31:44] Yeah, I want to be wireless.

[00:31:47] I've spent too much time on wires.

[00:31:49] And oh, what even coming into this shop?

[00:31:52] I was on wires for everything.

[00:31:54] And I'm stubborn, too.

[00:31:55] They told me to get an iPad.

[00:31:57] I was hand drawing my designs for like the first six months.

[00:32:01] And they were like, dude, stop doing it.

[00:32:03] Get an iPad.

[00:32:04] It makes it perfects it.

[00:32:05] And now I'm there's still things.

[00:32:08] Tattooing is so it's ever evolving.

[00:32:11] Yes.

[00:32:11] And there's right when I think I've caught up with technology and time, I'm still like two

[00:32:16] years behind.

[00:32:17] You're going to feel that way regardless, regardless.

[00:32:21] Like we were saying, like I was saying before this, like this is a great medium that if like

[00:32:25] your client is more than an hour away from you doing a Zoom call and, you know, seeing

[00:32:31] them having some face time, being able to discuss their ideas.

[00:32:35] The thing that you have to ask them to do is really like guide them through taking picture

[00:32:40] references of themselves.

[00:32:43] And, you know, a list of measurements you might need, like if you're doing a sleeve and things

[00:32:48] like that, like I have to outline, you know, what measurements that you need from them.

[00:32:53] But it's it's a really nice consulting tool.

[00:32:56] I really enjoy it for, you know, like I said, if if we only consult, I mean, my consultations

[00:33:02] go on for a long time.

[00:33:04] I talk to my clients for like an hour, hour and a half.

[00:33:06] I like to talk to you.

[00:33:08] Yeah.

[00:33:08] Yeah.

[00:33:09] I mean, it's it's beyond that.

[00:33:10] I just feel like it's a it's a it's a very important thing, especially if they're giving

[00:33:15] you a lot of skin.

[00:33:16] It's like, dude, this is a lot of your body.

[00:33:20] I want to take this very seriously.

[00:33:21] Let's go over everything.

[00:33:23] Let's make sure, you know, I run through all the different things that you're going to

[00:33:27] have to encounter.

[00:33:28] Also, let you know, like, you know, what our shop provides, what I provide you afterwards,

[00:33:34] how this is going to look like I just I tell them a lot of stuff right up front that

[00:33:39] it's not even about the tattoo.

[00:33:41] It's just kind of like, hey, you know, come dressed comfy, you know, like you can you can

[00:33:48] bring a pillow if you want, but I have to here, you know.

[00:33:51] I we have, you know, my I provide like Gatorade and water for you.

[00:33:58] And, you know, like if you need something like that, like that, if you need quick sugar,

[00:34:01] I got candy, you know, like just to let people know, like these I've set this up for you and

[00:34:08] this is why.

[00:34:09] And so I kind of go through all those things just so that people know what to bring, what

[00:34:14] not to bring.

[00:34:16] And then, you know, my style to like a lot of people when they're tattooing, they like

[00:34:20] just putting on a playlist and not talking.

[00:34:22] And, you know, that works for some.

[00:34:25] Yeah.

[00:34:25] Some people prefer that.

[00:34:27] But we're both talkers.

[00:34:29] We both like to talk to people.

[00:34:31] Yes.

[00:34:31] And so like my clients love hearing that because, you know, they've they've been with

[00:34:36] other a lot of them have been with other tattoo artists that don't talk, but they're

[00:34:40] fine with that.

[00:34:40] They just wish they would have what I've heard expressed is they wish they would have

[00:34:44] known that was their style so that they could have brought their own entertainment, like

[00:34:48] their own Netflix movie that they can watch on their phone or, you know, their own headphone

[00:34:53] playlist or, you know, like something that would have made it so that they could have prepared

[00:34:58] for that.

[00:35:00] And there was more of a conversation because all those things, you know, it feels awkward

[00:35:03] if, you know, you're like, oh, I expected you to talk to me.

[00:35:07] OK, I guess.

[00:35:08] Yes.

[00:35:09] Yes.

[00:35:09] And that's OK.

[00:35:11] Some people in if that's the artist preference, that's OK.

[00:35:15] But and I do try to feel the person out and varies from person to person.

[00:35:20] Some people would prefer to have headphones in while they're on their phone.

[00:35:24] And other people want to tell you about their day, want to tell you about what's been going

[00:35:29] on with their life.

[00:35:30] And once you get to know them and then you can just, hey, what's been going on?

[00:35:35] Oh, this has been.

[00:35:36] Oh, show me pictures.

[00:35:37] Oh, that's really cool.

[00:35:38] Yeah.

[00:35:39] I mean, that's.

[00:35:40] But then again, some people, you tattoo them and you'll see them regularly and they

[00:35:45] they don't want to talk really or they have very minimal conversation with you, but they

[00:35:50] just want to be on their phone.

[00:35:51] And if that's what they prefer, then, hey, that's what they prefer.

[00:35:54] You know?

[00:35:54] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:35:56] Oh, yeah.

[00:35:56] And I'm I'm always about accommodating them.

[00:35:59] But it's funny how they whenever I say, oh, what kind of music?

[00:36:04] They're like, whatever you need.

[00:36:05] And I'm like, well, I don't need music at all.

[00:36:07] Don't tell me that.

[00:36:08] I'm going to put on some metal.

[00:36:10] Damn out in here.

[00:36:11] Well, and that's the thing is that you might find out just like if you leave a tattoo

[00:36:16] up to me too much, what what I would be into that you would not be into.

[00:36:21] I'm sure you get this all the time when people have a request for a tattoo and it's like,

[00:36:26] cool.

[00:36:27] It's like, all right, let's let's do it.

[00:36:28] And they're like, well, what do you want to do?

[00:36:30] It's like, well, the thing is, is what I want to do and what I'm in, what I love is art

[00:36:38] is specifically for me and a certain set of people you may not like.

[00:36:42] So I say, well, what do you want?

[00:36:45] And then sometimes I can turn into a 20 to 30 minute back and forth.

[00:36:49] And then I just eventually I just say what I like may not be what you like.

[00:36:54] Like if it's up to me, I'm going to do cartoony anime characters, manga, video game characters.

[00:36:59] I'm just going to have fun doing fun art, nerdy art on you all day.

[00:37:04] But you might not want that.

[00:37:06] You might want butterflies and flowers and you might you might not like color.

[00:37:12] You might.

[00:37:12] So, I mean, it's pretty much like, what do you want?

[00:37:16] This is on your body.

[00:37:18] Yeah.

[00:37:18] Yeah.

[00:37:18] Don't ask me what I want.

[00:37:21] Because what I want, I'm going to put on me.

[00:37:23] Oh, absolutely.

[00:37:24] And, you know, I've had people do the same thing.

[00:37:28] Well, I'm not an artist.

[00:37:29] I'm like, well, you don't have to be an artist to tell me about what you want.

[00:37:33] Yeah.

[00:37:33] You don't have to do that.

[00:37:34] I was like, and it can be a lot of things that you don't even expect.

[00:37:37] Like share with me a Pinterest board.

[00:37:39] And it doesn't even have to involve your idea.

[00:37:42] Show me what kind of art you look at.

[00:37:44] Show me, show me what, what you're, I mean, show me a palette of colors.

[00:37:50] You know how they do swatches of colors, like on Pinterest, where they'll just show you like

[00:37:54] a picture and they'll show you all the like main, like colors that are in it.

[00:37:58] I'm like, show me something like that.

[00:38:00] Like, like your favorite, you know, palette of things that you are attracted to.

[00:38:05] I was like, a lot of that will give me a lot of insight about what your eye comes to and

[00:38:09] what I can do with your, your idea.

[00:38:11] That's purely yours.

[00:38:12] I said, but it's really not about me.

[00:38:14] And you have far more knowledge about what you want than you're coming off of.

[00:38:20] Like, right.

[00:38:21] Right.

[00:38:21] You came into a tattoo shop with something in mind.

[00:38:25] And if you didn't, and it was just, I mean, that's fine.

[00:38:29] The people that come in and they're just, it's a spur of the moment.

[00:38:31] I want a tattoo and you know what, I want something you specialize in, but then I'll say, okay,

[00:38:36] I can show you some tattoos that I specialize in stuff that I like.

[00:38:42] It is ultimately though, up to you, what you want to do with that is if you see what I do

[00:38:49] and you're like, I don't want that on my body.

[00:38:51] Okay, fine.

[00:38:52] Yeah.

[00:38:53] What you want on you.

[00:38:55] Cause that's, I mean, it's, it's one of the hardest things when people say, oh, you're

[00:38:59] the artist, you do what you want.

[00:39:01] It's like, are you sure?

[00:39:03] Because I'm like, I might just get some demon slayer, one piece type of thing, smack it

[00:39:08] on you and say, Hey, you're sitting all day.

[00:39:11] I had a girlfriend say that to me and she was like, oh, I really, you know, I really

[00:39:16] want you to design something.

[00:39:17] And she was like, in her head, she was like, you know me.

[00:39:21] And I was like, no, no, no, no, no.

[00:39:26] I, and that's, it's good.

[00:39:28] It gets to your point.

[00:39:29] Um, when I, when I sit down to do art stuff that I want to do, um, it's, it's very diverse.

[00:39:37] It's pretty crazy.

[00:39:38] And I do it to soothe my soul.

[00:39:41] So I'm not thinking about my friend or friends at all.

[00:39:44] It's not that I don't love them.

[00:39:45] Um, but if you want me to design something per you with you in mind, of myself, right.

[00:39:52] Then, right.

[00:39:53] And that's the thing is that like, it's, it, it does get a little bit more personal.

[00:39:58] And I wish, I wish more people understood this, that if you come in and you don't have an

[00:40:02] idea and you say, well, what do you want to do?

[00:40:04] And what are you into?

[00:40:05] And then, you know, you open up, which is essentially like your family album and be like,

[00:40:10] this is my family.

[00:40:11] And they go, ah, that baby's ugly.

[00:40:15] Right.

[00:40:16] Right.

[00:40:16] Like, fuck you, dude.

[00:40:17] I just showed you, I just showed you my little nephew and you just said he was an ugly baby.

[00:40:22] Like, right.

[00:40:22] And we do get, we do get that too.

[00:40:25] Or we do get the people that are like, you know, you got a nice hobby here.

[00:40:30] It's like, well, I enjoy the work I do, but it's no, in no way, shape or form.

[00:40:34] Is it a hobby?

[00:40:35] This pays my bills.

[00:40:36] It's like, in no way, shape or form.

[00:40:38] Do I come to work where I need, have other needs just like everyone else on this planet

[00:40:45] and I'm doing it just, just because for the hell of it.

[00:40:51] Yeah.

[00:40:51] And yeah, there, there are people that come in and they're like, oh, I'd like to see your

[00:40:55] work.

[00:40:55] And they see that and they're like, oh, I don't like that.

[00:40:57] That sucks.

[00:40:58] Like, dude, you can keep that to yourself because if I'm promoting that, that is an extension

[00:41:03] of myself that I like to promote.

[00:41:05] But if it's something you dislike, you can say, oh, I really like this.

[00:41:09] I would like, I don't really want something with this in it.

[00:41:14] This though really vibes with me.

[00:41:16] Yeah.

[00:41:16] Someone says that it is like a nephew.

[00:41:18] It's like, you know what?

[00:41:19] I have to get in my chair.

[00:41:21] All right.

[00:41:21] This may, may not hurt.

[00:41:23] So I try to be even regardless of the attitude.

[00:41:27] I try to be as professional as possible.

[00:41:30] I don't try to do anything to make extra.

[00:41:33] No, there's nobody's trying to do trauma to the skin.

[00:41:35] They're trying to do the best tattoo that they can, but.

[00:41:37] Or to the psyche.

[00:41:38] Yeah.

[00:41:39] No, we don't want to traumatize the psyche either.

[00:41:42] No, absolutely not.

[00:41:43] No, we're just trying to make a living, man.

[00:41:45] Like, I get it.

[00:41:46] So what happened?

[00:41:48] I know, I think you've told me before, but this is your show.

[00:41:52] So what made you leave tattooing and then come back?

[00:41:59] Okay, so we'll get into the long story now.

[00:42:02] Yeah.

[00:42:02] I was a plumber.

[00:42:04] And from 22, 23, I was actually, in all honesty, I was doing something that I did in high school.

[00:42:13] I went to a tech school.

[00:42:13] So I did something I did in high school that I won an award for.

[00:42:19] And I thought, hey, this would be a promising career.

[00:42:22] But it wasn't me.

[00:42:23] It wasn't in my heart.

[00:42:25] I was really doing it to appease my family.

[00:42:30] And I wanted to, but I mean, when you're in your young 20s, you really don't know what you want.

[00:42:36] You're just kind of like moving around in life kind of blind, unless you're like really elevated with your head on your shoulders.

[00:42:43] Like you just know, I mean, it's not for most people in their early young adult life.

[00:42:50] But I was a plumber for a little while.

[00:42:53] And I had a 88 gallon water heater that was full of water.

[00:42:57] We couldn't get to scale down fall on me.

[00:43:00] And it messed up my L5.

[00:43:04] Oh, shit, man.

[00:43:05] Yeah, I worked with it for about six months until it got unbearable.

[00:43:09] And then I stopped working.

[00:43:11] I tried to do other things that just life wasn't bringing me there.

[00:43:16] And the funny story, I'm not going to credit my success or me getting into tattoos from this.

[00:43:22] But it was just the funny story was I was I was on some painkillers and I just picked up a pencil and I just started drawing.

[00:43:30] And I did that for weeks until my brother mentioned he's like, you know, I get the feeling you should maybe pick up a tattoo machine.

[00:43:39] I was like, you know, I've been feeling that, too.

[00:43:41] So I did get a really piece of junk Amazon, quote unquote, kit.

[00:43:47] And there is no kit that can get you started in tattooing, as you and I both know.

[00:43:51] But I got one of those.

[00:43:54] I did.

[00:43:54] I didn't tattoo anyone else.

[00:43:55] I just did really bad Amazon fake skins.

[00:44:00] And I put some garbage on myself.

[00:44:03] And so my brother knew somebody who is my old mentor that he was tattooing.

[00:44:11] He's the guy, the old school guy who's been tattooing since the 90s.

[00:44:14] And he was like, yeah, come on in and talk to me.

[00:44:17] And I had an apprenticeship there.

[00:44:19] It was very.

[00:44:22] And here's something that what you mentioned earlier with people picking like love doing art, but they pick up that tattoo machine.

[00:44:31] They're just nervous because they're going to put on someone.

[00:44:33] And so I didn't do a whole lot of tattooing with people because I was really in my head in my apprenticeship.

[00:44:41] And every tattoo I did, it was it was a big learning curve.

[00:44:46] And I mean, that's every apprenticeship.

[00:44:48] You're going to pick up a tattoo machine and be like, wow, oh, that turned out OK.

[00:44:53] But then it's pointing out the flaws, A through Z problems here.

[00:44:58] And then I stopped tattooing after I didn't do a formal two year apprenticeship.

[00:45:05] I didn't make a formal two year apprenticeship.

[00:45:07] Like I got almost up to the one year mark, like almost.

[00:45:12] And then I was like, you know what?

[00:45:13] I'm just done.

[00:45:15] So for like the next few years, I and we can't even call it tattooing.

[00:45:20] I did like 10 tattoos a year, which isn't tattooing at all.

[00:45:24] No, I didn't learn from my mistake.

[00:45:28] I became a landscaper and I was processing for the army.

[00:45:33] And this was coming up on the time of covid covid wasn't full swing.

[00:45:37] I was doing landscaping.

[00:45:39] I won't name the company, even though they even though I probably should, but I'm not going to.

[00:45:45] I blew my knee out and I had to learn how to walk again.

[00:45:49] Oh, no.

[00:45:50] So it stopped my process for the well, the hand tattoo stopped my process for the army, even after getting it removed.

[00:45:59] And blowing my knee out, stop the process for the army.

[00:46:02] I couldn't work.

[00:46:03] And the first thing that went through my head was if I'm going to do this tattoo thing, I am really good.

[00:46:10] And I don't mean to say thing.

[00:46:11] That's it's a horrible thing for me to say.

[00:46:12] If I'm going to be a tattoo artist, I am going to really dedicate.

[00:46:16] Yeah.

[00:46:17] I picked up a cheap machine and I'm not upset with this tattoo to this day.

[00:46:22] I think I did a decent job, even though there's parts that could have been done better.

[00:46:26] I did like a series of three like silhouette bats with some purple in it.

[00:46:31] And it came out clean.

[00:46:34] Like it didn't come out bad.

[00:46:36] And I was like, wow.

[00:46:37] It was like, there is potential.

[00:46:40] So I grinded for a year doing bad tattoos on people and scratching.

[00:46:47] And every once in a while doing something that I still like to this day.

[00:46:51] I got a chance at a local shop.

[00:46:54] They tried me out.

[00:46:56] It didn't work out, but not because the tattoo was bad, but because I made an all day event out of something that could have been like a three hour tattoo.

[00:47:05] And he said for walk-ins, that just wouldn't work.

[00:47:08] And still a nice guy.

[00:47:09] I love the guy.

[00:47:10] He's a sweetheart.

[00:47:11] It didn't work at the time.

[00:47:13] So I did some more scratching.

[00:47:16] And I was doing deliveries to pay my bills.

[00:47:22] But pretty much at the point where I was about to give up.

[00:47:25] Like it became a love-hate thing with tattooing for it was a back and forth war and battle of love it, hate it, love it, hate it.

[00:47:35] I'm tired of being told that, oh, my God, I love your work, but I would never pay you for a tattoo.

[00:47:40] It's like, oh, it's like you really don't understand.

[00:47:42] Like you're getting under my skin something serious.

[00:47:45] But I went through that to get into where I'm at.

[00:47:49] And now it's giving me the life that I'm happy to be living.

[00:47:54] I'm happy to be me and doing what I'm doing.

[00:47:57] Yeah, because we ran into each other online.

[00:48:01] Yeah, I was on Facebook.

[00:48:03] Yeah, yeah.

[00:48:04] On a tattoo.

[00:48:06] There's a premise page.

[00:48:08] Yeah.

[00:48:09] Yeah.

[00:48:09] Yeah.

[00:48:10] That's right.

[00:48:10] And I spoke a little truth.

[00:48:12] I love that shit.

[00:48:13] I was like, I can't do this anymore.

[00:48:14] I've been kicked out of so many of those pages for speaking a little bit of truth and the Karens and Kyles that come after me.

[00:48:21] And I'm like, listen, you're not owed anything.

[00:48:24] And I'm not owed anything either.

[00:48:27] Like nobody gave me a chance until I proved worth.

[00:48:30] And even then, I was just given an opportunity.

[00:48:33] It wasn't, oh, I was given a probationary period.

[00:48:38] It was, you know, if, and there were plenty of times in that period where it was like, you either need to show up and shell out or you need to get out.

[00:48:45] Yeah.

[00:48:46] So, but that pushes you.

[00:48:48] It's either, it's either shit or get off the pot.

[00:48:51] Yeah.

[00:48:52] No.

[00:48:52] And that's, that was, that's right.

[00:48:54] I, I, I blocked it out.

[00:48:56] Oh, because COVID was happening or it just, you know, it was kind of loosening up again, but I was, I had found myself to those corners of the Facebook world.

[00:49:07] And I was like, oh, let's see.

[00:49:09] Cause I had this podcast and I was like, let's see, you know, let's see what, what's on here.

[00:49:14] And it was good.

[00:49:16] It, it, it, it, it grounded me in a, um, in, I guess an attitude or like a, you know, but I met a lot of great people like you.

[00:49:28] Um, yeah.

[00:49:29] I mean, seriously, like.

[00:49:32] And you've been a sweetheart.

[00:49:34] You've been a great friend to me, especially during the times where I was, I've met some people through these groups like you that have been sweethearts to me during times that I wasn't a professional artist.

[00:49:46] That it was just, you know what?

[00:49:47] I'm just going to be kind to this kid.

[00:49:49] Yeah.

[00:49:49] I mean, there's no reason to be a dick.

[00:49:53] Oh, it's, it's funny.

[00:49:54] We've, I mean, we gatekeep this industry for a reason.

[00:50:00] There is a reason that it's gatekept, but it doesn't mean you can't be kind.

[00:50:06] Yeah.

[00:50:07] Yeah.

[00:50:08] So.

[00:50:08] Well, you know, I mean, if your background's plumbing, then you know how quickly things can scale very quickly.

[00:50:14] If you don't know what you're doing and, um, you know, water damage is like one of the most heinous things that a house can go through.

[00:50:22] Oh, it's awful.

[00:50:24] And so like, you know, I think that that probably grounds your mind a little bit in, in a professional sense of being like, well, if I, you know, if I don't educate myself.

[00:50:34] Well, and this can scale really quickly.

[00:50:37] And, and, uh, you know, I think that the, you know, the best thing as a formula to pride is humility.

[00:50:46] So.

[00:50:46] Yes.

[00:50:47] Yeah.

[00:50:47] So it's, it's good.

[00:50:48] And, and I saw that about you.

[00:50:50] Um, even though I, I, I'm challenged with pride myself, you know, it's.

[00:50:55] We all are.

[00:50:55] As, as human beings, we do something we're proud of and we naturally want to have some form of acknowledgement for it because it's something that is from us that we are proud to put out into the world.

[00:51:11] So it's, it's not a bad thing to have a level of ego.

[00:51:17] Too much ego is a problem.

[00:51:20] Too little ego is a problem, but just enough to be proud of what you do.

[00:51:25] But at the same time say there is a world of improvement I can do.

[00:51:30] I I'm always going to strive for that improvement and to better myself with whatever that be in life.

[00:51:36] But I think being proud of yourself is a good thing.

[00:51:40] It's proud of the progression, proud of the steps and remembering where, where you were, where you came from.

[00:51:49] Never, never forgetting those steps because I feel as people in general, we can forget that all the time and essentially fall in love with ourselves, which is, it's a very disgusting human trait.

[00:52:03] But everybody that attained some level of success.

[00:52:09] I'm not saying, well, I shouldn't say everybody.

[00:52:11] I should say people that attain level of success can do that.

[00:52:17] And whether it's long term, momentarily or just for a quick second.

[00:52:23] And it's something we do need to keep in check as people.

[00:52:27] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:52:28] I mean, you know, it's it's all of us are plagued by it.

[00:52:32] I.

[00:52:35] Oh, what was I we we read something I believe it was Ecclesiastes today.

[00:52:41] And it was just basically about, you know, beware of people who their only audience is themselves, you know, because that's that's the thing is that.

[00:52:51] And what I was going to say is, is that the only way that I really kind of keep those points of acknowledgement about where I am right now, I let's call it pride and more just value.

[00:53:04] Like I, I know, I know what values I have and I know how valuable what I know and what what kind of person I am is and also the rarity of it.

[00:53:17] And that's not I don't think that I'm I'm speaking out of turn here.

[00:53:22] I only put that out when.

[00:53:26] Somebody is coming at me, like if like in the things that you're saying, like if somebody is like, well, I love your art, but I'd never pay you for it.

[00:53:34] I'd be like, oh, you know, because then then I'd be like, you don't need to get tattooed.

[00:53:38] Yeah. Then I'd be like, oh, I mean, what do you do for a living?

[00:53:41] Oh, yeah, I do that.

[00:53:42] What if what if somebody just said what you just said to me about what you do?

[00:53:47] Yeah. Go in work for eight to 10 hours and say, oh, you know what?

[00:53:51] You're not getting paid for the day.

[00:53:53] Yeah. People would riot.

[00:53:54] People in the streets.

[00:53:56] Yeah, exactly.

[00:53:57] Like, have you had any perspective about what you just said to me?

[00:54:01] Like, come on, man.

[00:54:02] Like, I don't I don't want to be a dick, but you were just a dick to me.

[00:54:05] So in the name of self-defense and having some self-respect, I'm going to let you know, I'm going to let you know what you just did was a dick move.

[00:54:14] Like, you're not supposed to do that.

[00:54:16] But yeah, that's at this point.

[00:54:19] And that's the only way, because I'm just around so much more amazing artists than me.

[00:54:25] Like my boyfriend thinks I'm awesome.

[00:54:27] And I'm like, no, I'm not.

[00:54:29] Well, because we always compare ourselves to what is better.

[00:54:33] So we don't see the light in ourselves.

[00:54:36] We always we can look at our work and we'll be like, wow, I love that tattoo.

[00:54:40] But then we look at someone better or someone that's just at a different level.

[00:54:45] I won't even say better.

[00:54:45] I'll just say a different level.

[00:54:47] We look at someone that's at a different level doing something different.

[00:54:50] We're like, wow, that's incredible.

[00:54:51] I saw it.

[00:54:52] And we all do it.

[00:54:53] We all do it.

[00:54:54] We all look at our work and compare it to something else.

[00:54:57] And we're like, wow, but it's not like that.

[00:54:59] And what if I did this and this different?

[00:55:02] And we all do that.

[00:55:04] And it's also in our human nature to want to defend ourselves with our work, with what we do, with our pride in ourselves.

[00:55:17] So I don't think that's a bad thing.

[00:55:18] I think it's a good thing to stand up for ourselves, but also to do it in a way that is not taking away or demeaning of our own character and nature.

[00:55:30] Yeah.

[00:55:31] Yeah.

[00:55:31] No.

[00:55:31] And I feel like you've been very honest about your roots and where you've come from and how you like progressed into there.

[00:55:39] So like when you started working at the first shops, was it a lot of walk-ins they had you try to do?

[00:55:46] So in my apprenticeship, I was given stuff that was like, you know what, I think you might be able to handle this.

[00:55:56] And I would get into, I would always be nervous, pick the machine up, have to put it down, have to like go, like collect myself.

[00:56:06] And then I'd get into the project and I'd be like, well, I'm not doing as bad as I thought.

[00:56:11] Like the nerves are going away.

[00:56:14] And it was still like, it wasn't good work.

[00:56:17] It wasn't good work.

[00:56:19] I look back at what I did back then and now, and I'm like, oh, well, I can see the progression.

[00:56:23] And I can see where this has led to and where I've come from.

[00:56:27] But from the other work that I've been doing, I would, there wasn't exactly the demographic region is every shop that I've worked at has been on the highway, Route 40 Pulaski Highway.

[00:56:45] So it has been essentially walk-in rich areas.

[00:56:50] You get everything, honestly.

[00:56:52] You can get anything on that, on that strip.

[00:56:54] That can be anything.

[00:56:56] Yes.

[00:56:56] Yes.

[00:56:58] You just don't know.

[00:56:59] Sometimes you can have people come in that are city council come in and you can have people that come in that want to sell you some stuff that they found off the street.

[00:57:09] And it's like, no, I don't want that used broken coil machine that somebody had from their Amazon list, which list that's been sitting in their drawer for the past like five years.

[00:57:22] No, I'm not interested.

[00:57:24] No, you just don't know what is going to happen next.

[00:57:29] But the times that I've had steady work has been at this shop.

[00:57:34] That's the only time that I've had steady work.

[00:57:37] Prior to that, it was hoping that I could get something going.

[00:57:41] And, you know, it's part of the process.

[00:57:44] That's how you learn.

[00:57:45] And I thoroughly blasted my body with tattoos to learn.

[00:57:51] Yeah.

[00:57:51] Like, I look down from the torso down is like it's covered in tattoos from learning process.

[00:57:59] What was the first one that you did on yourself?

[00:58:02] Because you tattooed yourself first, right?

[00:58:04] Yeah.

[00:58:04] So right before I had my apprenticeship and it didn't even stick because I had no clue what I was even doing.

[00:58:11] I tried blasting my hand.

[00:58:14] I didn't.

[00:58:14] I didn't.

[00:58:15] Wait.

[00:58:16] Wait a minute.

[00:58:17] Were you using a coil at that point?

[00:58:20] Yeah.

[00:58:20] I was using coil.

[00:58:21] So you got to know what you're doing.

[00:58:22] Yeah.

[00:58:22] I had no clue what I was doing.

[00:58:24] You know that you need to stretch skin.

[00:58:26] And didn't even know that what the green soap was even there for.

[00:58:30] I just poured the whole thing of green soap into a spray bottle.

[00:58:34] And then I started seeing some of the dirt come off.

[00:58:40] And I started seeing.

[00:58:41] And I was like, oh, my God, I'm washing the ink off of me.

[00:58:43] So I let it say it was just a dirty tattoo that just stayed there for like a week until everything was washed away.

[00:58:50] I was like, oh, wow.

[00:58:51] This is garbage.

[00:58:52] Praise God.

[00:58:53] This is trash.

[00:58:54] But I went around promoting it like, yeah, I'm a tattooer.

[00:58:57] And it's like, no, no, no.

[00:58:59] You haven't even taken a step, bro.

[00:59:01] Like you put a blindfold on and you did some Helen Keller stuff and you picked up a tattoo machine.

[00:59:08] Like you didn't even like that's me looking back at who I was back then.

[00:59:12] Now, had you been tattooed before by others at that point?

[00:59:15] Oh, yeah.

[00:59:16] Yeah.

[00:59:16] I've been getting going into tattoo shops since like 2005, 2006.

[00:59:22] Gotcha.

[00:59:23] What was the first thing that you ever got professionally done?

[00:59:25] Oh, it was a tribal dragon that I got on my right bicep.

[00:59:30] And I was 15.

[00:59:33] Oh, man.

[00:59:34] I went into a tattoo shop because I knew some of the quote unquote fool kids in the neighborhood who were like the college kids that would party with high school kids.

[00:59:45] And I don't know what's happened.

[00:59:47] A lot of people have left the neighborhood.

[00:59:49] But I hope the best for everyone, you know, I hope the best for everyone.

[00:59:52] But they pointed me in the direction of an artist who is sadly no longer with us.

[00:59:58] He died due to hernia surgery, which is.

[01:00:01] Oh, man.

[01:00:01] Yeah, it's a shame because I had hernia surgery a couple of years ago.

[01:00:05] And I'm sorry that.

[01:00:09] And again, condolences to him and his family.

[01:00:13] Wow.

[01:00:15] All righty.

[01:00:16] That concludes part one.

[01:00:18] Thank you, Kevin, so much.

[01:00:20] You gave me so much of your time for anybody who should actually follow Kevin.

[01:00:27] You can do so at Donkey Kong Tattoos.

[01:00:30] That's on IG.

[01:00:31] That's his handle.

[01:00:33] He is a great artist trying to do the best that he can with all that is before him.

[01:00:38] He works at a great shop called Tattoo Icons.

[01:00:43] Definitely check them out as well.

[01:00:45] Kevin, bless you.

[01:00:47] Thank you.

[01:00:48] Everyone, no matter what.

[01:00:50] Just remember, breathe in and breathe out.

[01:00:58] That's all we can do, right?

[01:01:00] Have a powerful week.

[01:01:02] Make good choices.

[01:01:04] Catch you next week.

[01:01:05] God bless.

[01:01:07] Later.

[01:01:12] Thanks for listening.

[01:01:13] You can find The Apprenticeship Diaries on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.

[01:01:17] Our IG is the underscore apprenticeship underscore diaries.

[01:01:21] If you would like to offer constructive criticism or an interview, drop us an email at theapprenticeshipdiaries at gmail.com.

[01:01:27] We look forward to hearing from our listeners.