Ep. 237 "A Good Conversation" (Diary Entry 2:3 with Kevin Kline)

[00:00:00] Hello and Happy Tuesday Diary listeners. I wanted to wish everyone a belated Happy Veterans Day. We owe you so much. Just so everybody knows, there's a few in my family that have served in the military. But beyond me, I wanted to tell everyone that I am so eternally grateful for your service. Without you, I doubt very much I could sit around and podcast and make art all day. So thank you. Thank you so much for the privilege.

[00:00:29] We are back today with part two with Kevin Kline. This is a three part diary entry or podcast with Kevin. We're dubbing the second piece after an inspiration that Kevin cited. It came to mind as I was listening back to it. So I hope that you'll enjoy it as much as I did. But we're calling this a good conversation. And I think it is.

[00:00:57] Enjoy listeners. Welcome to the Apprenticeship Diaries where raw meets refined. Let's be real. We're still working on refined. What it took, what it takes and the stories that are made. Join us as we learn from professionals about how their stories begin.

[00:01:27] His family, but, and I'm sorry that he's no longer with us, but I went into a, but like one of the last biker shops in our area that was just full of like army guys getting tattooed and stuff like that.

[00:01:39] And I walk in this 15 year old kid, clearly in high school, don't have any facial hair at all. And I was like, Hey, I'm here to see Chris. And I'm not afraid name dropping it because he is passed away, but a total sweet.

[00:01:54] And in the later years of his life, he was a big advocate for helping youth for helping people with addiction. And he, he became like a very inspirational individual. And, uh, I wish I would have known him during his last few years. I only heard good things about him. So again, uh, my condolences to his family.

[00:02:14] But, uh, I walk in this big biker guy comes out big rough and tough. And I'm just looking right at him. I say, I'm here to see Chris. That is Chris. He's like, I know you, what do you want? And I was like, Oh, I'm dragging on my arm. He's like, get in the chair.

[00:02:28] So, uh, this 15 year old me is in there and, uh, I'm waiting along with all of these, uh, army guys. Like you're here for your first tattoo. And I'm like, yeah. And they're like, Oh, you're going to need, they get me thoroughly drunk.

[00:02:41] I have five beers back to back.

[00:02:45] I'm kind of seeing why Chris felt like he had to like, you know, do some repentance.

[00:02:52] He's like, I've definitely tattooed a 15 year old drunk before.

[00:02:58] Oh, I mean, that it was still, that was like the tail end of the biker.

[00:03:04] Well, in Maryland, there's no regulation. So we, we, we really, if you got it anywhere around here, like there is.

[00:03:11] Yeah. There was, there was nothing saying you couldn't, I mean, you could risk having an angry

[00:03:16] parent come in and be like, what the hell came off of it. Yeah. It could be bad, but it probably wasn't

[00:03:25] going to be. Oh, and I still have this tattoo to this day and I'm, I'm not upset with it. The only

[00:03:31] thing is it is dated and it makes me look like I'm from the nineties. It does make me look my age,

[00:03:38] which I'm not exactly upset with. No, that's classic. Yeah. Yeah. It's a piece of history.

[00:03:44] My very first tattoo, but they get me drunk. I run outside and I throw up right on their like front,

[00:03:50] like doorstep area, like on the lawn. The owner runs out after me. He's like, Hey, you can't be

[00:03:55] doing that out here. You're up next. I get in the chair and he starts tattooing me. And I was like,

[00:04:03] wow, this was the hype that I had in my head. And I fell in love with tattoos right after that,

[00:04:09] like fell in love. But there was a time also in my late teens, early twenties, where I didn't want

[00:04:16] tattoos. I was like, man, I regret my tattoos until I became a plumber. And I started getting some really

[00:04:23] nice tattoos from some really good artists and, uh, some really cool people. I still look up to this

[00:04:30] day. And yeah. And it's, uh, it got me back into it. And I actually had my first convention that I

[00:04:39] went to due to getting tattooed by an artist to put my favorite tattoo on me, a full big Phoenix all

[00:04:47] across my back, neck, neck down to ass and incredible, great artists. He just drew it on

[00:04:53] me with a Sharpie and they just went to work. But I went to my first convention. I was like,

[00:04:59] this is kind of cool. The second one was with my mentor and he was just, Hey, let's go to the

[00:05:04] tattoo convention. Let's walk around and talk and meet some people. And same, it was cool. But

[00:05:10] this was the one that, uh, I worked at and I was like, you know what? I was like, it's nerve. You

[00:05:17] get a little nervous too. It's nerve wracking at first. So you get into your groove and then you're

[00:05:21] like, Oh, I'm just doing what I do all the time. But there's just people all around me and people

[00:05:27] next to me that, but the cool thing is you're with your people from your shop. They're like,

[00:05:32] Hey, we got you, buddy. We're right here with you. We're in the trenches with you. So it's like,

[00:05:36] Oh yeah. Yeah. I'll go, I'll go to the trenches with these guys. I'm cool. Yeah. Yeah. I, um,

[00:05:42] I find them very bombarding. Um, personally, my one client, he was with me. I, we were at Baltimore

[00:05:49] too, but I, um, I kind of foster, uh, we were in the back wall. Most people didn't even know where

[00:05:55] it was. And it was perfect because I was like, great. I don't really want to be seen.

[00:06:00] We were in the corner too. Yeah.

[00:06:02] No, well, maybe, maybe we're, well, I didn't see you. So it must've been in another

[00:06:06] corner that I didn't go to. I really stayed local. Yeah. I, I, um, there's four usually

[00:06:12] multiple. No, in the, in the aisles. That's why there's multiple corners in the aisle.

[00:06:18] Like we were like back on the wall, but it was like, it was like you turn a corner as soon as

[00:06:28] you come in. And then we were back along the wall. So I know exactly where you were at.

[00:06:33] Yeah. Yeah. We, we loved it. We were like, this is awesome. But, um, I invited one of my clients who

[00:06:40] always gets private sessions. Well, all my clients do because it's an appointment only,

[00:06:44] um, private studio that I have now. But, um, I was like, do you want to come and get tattooed

[00:06:50] at the tattoo commission? He was like, yeah, sure. And, and he was like, I mean, I think,

[00:06:56] I think he enjoyed, uh, my friend Nisi. She was just like any good looking guy, which, you know,

[00:07:01] he is, uh, he's married, but like, I'm sure a married man doesn't mind it too much. She was just

[00:07:06] like, like sexually harassing all of my clients. I was just kind of like, I'm sorry, you're getting

[00:07:13] like felt up. He was like, no, dude, like that was fine. Uh, it was mostly, it was mostly just

[00:07:19] the tattoo convention. He was like, that was the most crazy shit I've ever experienced. Oh yeah. He

[00:07:27] was like, that was crazy. Yeah. Um, he was like, uh, I see what you mean. I'm glad I did it. And,

[00:07:35] uh, everybody was like, wow, he's really like calm. And I was like, he's worked on a bomb squad.

[00:07:41] So that's why he's calm. I was like inside, he's freaking out.

[00:07:48] I could imagine you would have to have nerves of steel to do something like that. Yeah. And if you

[00:07:55] don't, then it's not the job for you. Yeah. Like, uh, I know for when I was trying to process for

[00:08:02] army, then talk to the Navy, how they always give out a bonuses. Like they're always giving bonuses

[00:08:08] out in the army for truck drivers because you're going to get blown up. Yeah. Like nobody wants that

[00:08:13] or for the Navy, um, there's deep sea divers and it's like, well, that's nerve wracking beyond it.

[00:08:21] Like I've heard stories and, uh, I, I I'm good. Yeah. Good. Thanks. Keep me, keep me on land,

[00:08:31] please. Like just on land with my feet. That would be great. Yeah. Yeah. I like the water,

[00:08:36] but I mean, I like variations of the water, you know? Oh, it's not the water. It's what's in the

[00:08:42] water. That's problematic for me. Yeah. Or, or getting lost in, in the dark and potentially, uh,

[00:08:49] losing all your oxygen or getting caught on something and drowned it. Like bad way to go

[00:08:55] real way to go. Like I'd like to go, uh, when I'm older, you know, say I've seen a beautiful life.

[00:09:02] I did some wild and crazy things, did some cool things, you know, saw some cool places,

[00:09:07] met nice, cool people. And, uh, I'm ready to make peace with whatever happens, you know?

[00:09:13] So that's the goal for everyone. Oh yeah. I mean, you know, I hope so. I hope,

[00:09:21] I hope they're not walking around being like, none of this matters. You all suck. You all suck.

[00:09:29] That's the hard way to live life. And some people live life like that. And it is a very detrimental

[00:09:35] tool because it is, you're the one who has to live, be you. And you want to go around being miserable.

[00:09:43] That is your choice. Nobody can like, that is your choice to do. I, I cannot change somebody. I can

[00:09:50] only change myself. So I pity the person that wants to be miserable. Yeah. Same, same.

[00:09:58] It's bad life. Yeah. I mean, that's, I mean, going back to the, uh, that's kind of what I saw on the,

[00:10:05] uh, the apprenticeship page was just a lot of, a lot of misery. And I was just like, you guys,

[00:10:11] poor me, poor me. It's like, you have no idea.

[00:10:16] Nobody owes you anything in this. Sorry. Sorry, not sorry. Nobody owes you anything in the tattoo

[00:10:22] industry. You build it based off of you. And you know what? You're going to have,

[00:10:27] you're going to, you're going to make friends. You're going to meet the sweetest people in your

[00:10:30] life. And then you're going to meet people that don't like you. And you know what? That is part

[00:10:37] of life and not just in the tattoo industry. It's part of life in general. And I'm sorry to say it,

[00:10:43] but this is, Hey, you just don't get, you don't get, uh, I'm stressed out card, put that up in the air.

[00:10:51] And then you get to suck your thumb. Somebody pat your back. No, this is this big, put on your, uh,

[00:10:57] put on your boots and, uh, put your big boy pants on and this part of life, you know?

[00:11:02] Yep. Now do you, um, is there anything specifically since you mentioned this a couple of times,

[00:11:07] is there anything that you do now that kind of like get rid of like that, those jitters or is it

[00:11:13] just repetition? Yeah. Yeah. Um, jitters as far as in tattooing or, okay. Um, no, I'm pretty, uh,

[00:11:21] I'm pretty repetition. Yeah. You just get comfortable with being uncomfortable, but what

[00:11:26] has been helping me a lot in the past couple of years with really everything. And, uh, I've been

[00:11:33] doing a lot of, uh, my own, my own, uh, soul searching and going within to help myself. Um,

[00:11:40] I believe that mind, body, soul is connected. Yoga has been, I'm in love with it.

[00:11:46] Oh, great. Oh, it's, and it's, it's excellent for you. You go in, you sweat out all of the stress,

[00:11:53] all your, your joints feel a lot more loose and limber, your muscles. You're not so tense. Um,

[00:12:01] it's, it's a great tool and it's great exercise too. That's wonderful. I just came from meditation

[00:12:07] earlier today, which they do at the yoga studio. They do, uh, it's like, uh, there's one that's

[00:12:14] called yin yoga and it's pretty much where you're, it's not really heated. You're just in the room,

[00:12:19] like doing soft exercises, which relaxes the muscles. Then right from there, I go to meditation

[00:12:24] at the same place, but it's just a different class. And it, uh, it's, it's does wonders for you,

[00:12:31] but the gym helps with a lot of my problems too, when it comes to you, if you don't stay on top of

[00:12:38] your physical health, your mental health, uh, suffers, your spiritual health definitely suffers

[00:12:44] from your mental health. And if you're not, uh, if you're not balanced out, you're, it will show

[00:12:50] when you're tattooing. So the gym has been a great tool for helping me in those aspects where,

[00:12:56] you know, sometimes you just feel like, ah, man, I don't feel my best. Let me just go in and do a

[00:13:02] de-stress, just work on myself. And, uh, you know, tomorrow is, uh, it's another day. We're all going

[00:13:08] to have days where we're not feeling our best or feeling, uh, 100% comfortable in our own skin. But,

[00:13:15] uh, you just, you put your best foot forward and see what tomorrow has in store. But yeah, those,

[00:13:21] those are tools for me. And, um, I like being in nature, you know, I like, I love my cat,

[00:13:28] my cat. Yeah. He's, uh, he's my buddy, but, uh, he's, he's getting older, but he's, he's a nice

[00:13:33] sweetheart. He's a, he's a good boy, but he's bad. They're, uh, they're yogis too. Oh yeah. Oh,

[00:13:40] absolutely. His yoga is sleeping or, or being or baking for food. That's his yoga. I mean,

[00:13:51] yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I don't know. All I know is he likes food. He likes sleeping. He likes

[00:13:56] getting pet. He wants me to pick them up on the, put them on the sink so he can drink. And he wants

[00:14:01] to do that all night long until I go to sleep. He goes to sleep. And then tomorrow's a new day.

[00:14:07] Oh, that's cool. I love that you mentioned yoga. Um, it's a, it's a really good, um,

[00:14:14] it's a great thing for a lot of tattoo artists to get into, especially since, you know, we sit all day,

[00:14:20] um, we tend to lean to any one side. Um, you know, you've had several different things. One

[00:14:26] thing that happened to your back and the next thing to your knee, you can compensate for those

[00:14:30] things so much. If you don't, you know, balance yourself out and yoga is great because it has you

[00:14:37] do movements on both sides of the body equally. You get to see very, and meditate on like where you're

[00:14:44] weak in certain areas, you might be stronger on one side than another. And it really helps you examine

[00:14:50] since we sit all the time, it's really important to get up and move because the shit gets worse as you

[00:14:56] get older. Um, yes, um, a lot of taking care of ourselves with aging is our bodies do not produce

[00:15:06] or absorb the same amount of nutrients and minerals as in vitamins as it used to. So taking a different

[00:15:14] anti and I'm, I'm not a big advocate for medication because medication has too many bad side effects.

[00:15:22] And I noticed with myself just taking ibuprofen and not even frequently was starting to create ulcers.

[00:15:29] So for me, CBD is, and with turmeric is, uh, how I counteract that. And it works to an extent. It does

[00:15:38] make you feel a little better and, uh, then taking other supplements to help, uh, vitamins, minerals,

[00:15:45] um, uh, natural, uh, boosters, especially for, uh, male testosterone booster or, uh, taking stuff

[00:15:55] that's like good for anti-inflammatory, like shilija, shilija, I believe it's called, uh, so different,

[00:16:01] different things that you can do, different remedies. Um, also what is it? You'd never want

[00:16:08] to be dehydrated, um, hydrate yourself because that as we're getting older, um, our joints aren't the

[00:16:14] same. Our bones aren't the same. Uh, our muscles, we can't handle what we could when we were teenagers

[00:16:22] in our twenties. It's the body just doesn't act this move. The same doesn't act the same, doesn't

[00:16:29] absorb the same. So we do have to take care of that on top of knowing that we're going to have to do a

[00:16:35] eight hour day of tattooing or longer where we're going to stand up, sit down, stand up, sit down.

[00:16:41] And then it comes to the point where, uh, it's late into the night. I want to get this tattoo done

[00:16:46] and my back's hurt. I got shrimp back. Oh, I have to go home. I have to go to sleep.

[00:16:52] Yep. Yep. I do it all over again tomorrow.

[00:16:56] Yeah. My boyfriend, he was, uh, yeah, I guess he's technically my fiance now.

[00:17:01] It's, it sounds classier than my boyfriend, but I don't know. There's something weird about fiance

[00:17:06] that seems bougie to me. Um, well, you guys are engaged. So congratulations.

[00:17:13] Thank you. It's appropriate. Um, it's just weird. Uh, I'm too old to like use any of these terms really

[00:17:20] in my mind. It's just like stupid. Um, but, um, he was less and I, he loves it when I do art and he

[00:17:28] had bought, uh, these little at Michael's they're selling everything that's Halloween right now.

[00:17:33] So he found these little skulls and it's like 10 of them in, in a, in a pack. And he's like, babe,

[00:17:39] this is really cheap. Like we can buy these and you can paint them. And I was like, yeah, let's do it.

[00:17:43] And so he's like, we'll do it tonight. And I was like, yeah, sure. So I started painting them,

[00:17:47] but you know, it's a process. You got it. There's like, there was like 10 of them. So like,

[00:17:51] you know, you do it in phases. And, um, like when I started painting, he was like,

[00:17:57] oh man, like there's nothing fun going on here right now. Like, are you going to do anything

[00:18:00] cool? And I was like, well, I'm painting on the backgrounds. He's like, I'll come back when

[00:18:05] you're doing deets. And then so yesterday I was, I was painting him again. He was at work

[00:18:12] and I stopped right before he came home. And, uh, he was like, babe, you know, I see that you were

[00:18:18] painting. You're going to get back to it. And I was like, no, man, my eyes were like strained.

[00:18:23] He's like, oh man, you know, like, I want you to like go back. And I was like, I can't right now.

[00:18:29] Like, cause you know, if you're looking at things really close up for a long time,

[00:18:33] sometimes you just need to look out and like, look at things from far away. I was like, I gotta,

[00:18:38] I gotta, I gotta look at shit from like across the room now because it's like, I'm, I'm,

[00:18:43] my eyes feel very strained. And I was like, people get a misconception about us as artists.

[00:18:50] They think that we can do this day in, day out, but we're human too. And we do need breaks. We do.

[00:18:57] There is this mental strain. There is a physical strain. There is a spiritual strain and it's,

[00:19:03] it's time to rest. There's time to work. There's time to play. There's time for relaxation. There's

[00:19:09] time to be serious. There's time to be silly. But some people think because we are artists and

[00:19:15] we are tattoo artists that, oh, we want to do this every day, day in, day out. And that's just

[00:19:21] how we live. And you know what? You don't have time for anything else in life is, well, no,

[00:19:26] I'm a person just like you. And sometimes I can be really invested into a project and then be like,

[00:19:33] you know what? I got to put the project down because it's either artist block or it's, I'm just,

[00:19:38] I'm tapped. I just can't give any more to this project until a later date. And that's normal.

[00:19:45] That's just part of the process. Oh, absolutely. And he, he knows, he was like, well, I know one

[00:19:50] thing about you artists is that if you're doing it when you don't want to do it, it's going to be

[00:19:53] shit. Yes. We're trying to create when the juices aren't flowing, then it's, it's not the same as

[00:20:01] when we're in the zone and it's like, there's nothing that can knock me down. Yeah. We're trying to

[00:20:06] create though. When we're not in the zone and it's, well, you're going to get what you're going

[00:20:11] to get, but it's not 100% the best that it could be. And it does happen. It happens to everybody.

[00:20:19] Oh yeah. Yeah. I, um, I, I find sometimes a lot of times with my clients, um, mostly because I have

[00:20:26] had a lot more of a, like you said, it's important to have enough, like work life balance kind of thing.

[00:20:33] Um, just so that you have less of those kinds of things that you run into, because if you're

[00:20:38] just constantly hammering, you're going to reach burnout so much quicker. Yeah, absolutely. But

[00:20:43] if I, I find that if I'm with a client and I'm really not in the greatest, it's not even, I'm,

[00:20:50] I'm incapable of art cause I can art, but it's just like, I'm not in a good mood. Um, I was talking to,

[00:20:57] um, my friend Mary about this in her podcast. Sometimes it's just,

[00:21:01] it's sometimes if you just say it, you're just like, I'm just in a shitty mood. And then they're

[00:21:05] like, Oh, you know, and then they let you kind of dominate the space for a little bit with whatever

[00:21:11] your shit is. And, you know, you're still tattooing and everything, but they're there for you.

[00:21:17] And I've had that with a lot of my clients now where they're just like, they're willing to

[00:21:21] sit and absorb my crap sometimes and, and let me have a bad day. And sometimes, sometimes just saying it,

[00:21:27] like, I'm in a shitty mood. I'm really sorry. This isn't about you. Um, just saying it is enough

[00:21:32] to like, not be in a shitty mood anymore. Like it's like, yeah, you know, you can vibe with each

[00:21:39] other in the moment and then be like, you know what? I was in a really bad mood, but you've lifted

[00:21:43] my spirits. I'm glad we had that talk. And, uh, I think that's healthy. I think we're because we

[00:21:52] almost go in work mode where we become like robots where, well, I can't, I can't say X, Y, and Z. And

[00:22:00] I can't, I can't be this way, but really that's what's going on within you. And then it's showing

[00:22:05] in your outside appearance and, but you're just bottled or maybe I'm just speaking for myself.

[00:22:12] I think you're right.

[00:22:13] Well, yeah, we, sometimes we can, uh, bottle things up too much to the point where if we don't

[00:22:21] let it out in a healthy way, then it's going to be all just going to work. It's not going to be

[00:22:27] good for work. Yeah. Yep. Speak again real quick. Yes. Oh, I just wanted to make sure your audio

[00:22:35] didn't change or not. Um, you're good. I think it's kind of low. It's weird. It's like shifted.

[00:22:42] Anything happen? Um, I don't know. No, that's better now. I don't know what happened. It was weird.

[00:22:49] I'm sorry. I'm sorry about that. Maybe, uh, the earphones fell. Um, well, they definitely fell.

[00:22:56] Not me. Uh, I didn't think that that had anything to do with, uh, the call, but that's probably the

[00:23:02] pause of it. You, you, uh, you sound fine now. I just want to make sure that you still sound fine.

[00:23:07] Good. Um, yeah, yeah. Um, no, no, no, no need to apologize. It's cool. It's all good.

[00:23:13] It's all good in the hood. It's all good. So this is your, this is your first zoom ever, right?

[00:23:19] Yes. I am, uh, technologically, um, challenged. I, I didn't have a computer, like a computer computer

[00:23:27] until I was 25. And then I got my very first smartphone right before I turned 30 and I was

[00:23:34] taking pictures of tattoos with a flip phone. Oh, that's cool. That's cool. I mean, it's,

[00:23:43] it's very retro. It's very retro. Yeah. That's cool. And you said that your, um,

[00:23:49] your favorite, uh, art is anime. I, I prefer doing the anime cartoony manga, but I have a

[00:23:57] roots in the traditional and anytime I'm handy traditional or Japanese or colorful, there's no

[00:24:05] shade. There's a whole, like a whole genre and think, I think that actually, um, uh, they're trying

[00:24:11] to like really specify that and like have whole conventions, the community of people who tattoo

[00:24:16] anime, um, they're very supportive of each other. They're really giving and caring and loving and,

[00:24:23] you know, cause there's so much anime, like there's so much that you can get into too. Yeah.

[00:24:29] Yeah. I wanted to go to October's, uh, Richmond anime kind, but I just, and I was going to go with

[00:24:36] my old mentor. Oh, right on. I, I didn't get a Virginia license in time. I didn't, I didn't have

[00:24:43] anything set up because I just, I had so much going on that I was focusing on one thing after another

[00:24:50] that I just didn't get prepared for it. So probably hopefully fingers, I won't say probably

[00:24:55] hopefully next year. Yeah. Um, have you ever been to it? Like actually walked it and stuff?

[00:25:01] No. You might want to take a day, like go on a Sunday and just drive down there and like,

[00:25:06] you know, just have a day, walk it out and see what it's like. And cause that's what I like to do

[00:25:11] that. That's why I really want to be a part of Pagoda is because I've gone three years in a row

[00:25:15] and it's incredible. And I'm like, God, I don't want to be a part of this. Um, cause you get a vibe,

[00:25:23] you know, like you get a vibe of like what you want to be a part of. I don't, I don't get the,

[00:25:27] no, I'm sorry. Kingpin. I, I don't, I don't get the, like the loving feeling that I like to have

[00:25:34] when I go to the Baltimore tattoo convention. It's just not how I feel. Um, but it's, it's okay.

[00:25:41] Um, girlfriends of mine went with me. One of them is an artist and the other one is massage therapist.

[00:25:47] So they didn't even tattoo, which was perfect. Cause we got two booths. And then I had one other

[00:25:52] tattoo artist that came from New York to, to kind of booth that with us. It was perfect. So we didn't

[00:25:57] really, we had a very equal split of how to like handle the, the booths and I wasn't in their way.

[00:26:04] They really weren't mine. It really worked out really well. And, um, yeah, they want to do it again.

[00:26:09] And it was nice, you know, like exhibiting with people that weren't tattooing and, you know,

[00:26:13] it's kind of watching them experience the whole thing and, um, you know, just different stuff,

[00:26:18] but yeah, it was fun. It was, it was very fun. And I always like to foster people who have never done

[00:26:25] it before. Even the other tattoo artists, she hadn't done a lot of conventions. So she was,

[00:26:30] she was kind of just coming in and like, you know, I just want to do more. And so we all kind of came

[00:26:37] together. Really cool. And that's very, very kind of you. Oh, I mean, it wasn't, it was all of them.

[00:26:42] I just, I do it because I, I enjoy it more that way. Um, that's how I have more fun is people. Yeah.

[00:26:50] Yeah. And if I can be a part of like their beginning of something, like, I love that shit.

[00:26:55] Yeah. Um, love it. Um, and that's really cool. No. And that's why this is a great connection is

[00:27:01] because like, well, we, the way we ran into each other, I asked you a long time ago, I think, and

[00:27:06] you were like, no, I am not, I am not ready to do a podcast interview at all. Yeah. Yeah. And a few

[00:27:16] years back, um, there were things that I wanted to do that I've been slowly doing. And it's funny

[00:27:25] that you hype things up in your head and then you get into doing it. And it's kind of like,

[00:27:31] I don't be honest with you. Um, when I, before we first did the podcast, I'm getting one here,

[00:27:35] I'm doing like some breathing exercise. I was like, please don't do anything stupid. Please

[00:27:39] don't make any mistakes. And now I'm just talking to like, we're old friends, just hanging out,

[00:27:44] you know? Yeah. Yeah. No. And, and that's what I, um, you know, I, I sensed that beforehand.

[00:27:50] Um, but I was like, dude, it's going to be fine. Like, that's how it always is with people. Like,

[00:27:56] you know, they, they think podcasts and I'm like, do you understand that everybody, anybody with like

[00:28:01] 16 bucks a month can, can have a podcast? Like, like all you need is to host an RSS feed. That's

[00:28:09] it. And I, or is it RSS? Yeah. RSS feed. And it's just like a local thing that supports the fee that,

[00:28:16] that basically feeds it to all of these other, like iTunes, Spotify, all this stuff. But like,

[00:28:23] you post it there and you just work that whole thing. And if you can have a podcast, like,

[00:28:29] or it is like, Oh pocket. And they think Joe Rogan, I wish, but like, that's like, that's like

[00:28:35] the top of the top. That's like, uh, you're thinking of JK Rowling, the top of the top authors,

[00:28:43] Joe Rogan, top of the top Oprah Winfrey. You're thinking of Tom, but there's also this,

[00:28:49] this has a following. Oh yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. I'm getting there. It's very, it has a following.

[00:28:55] Oh yeah. We're, I mean, and I'm so blessed because like, that's, that's the reason why I keep doing

[00:29:00] it is that I've, and more and more, I hear from people about how it's helped their careers and,

[00:29:05] and really been something that's guided them through. And I'm so honored and just so pleased,

[00:29:11] but yeah, like, um, I genuinely love it, but it's like tattooing too. Like you get into it and you

[00:29:16] think of the greats, you know, like that are in there and you're like, ah, comparing yourself to

[00:29:21] everything. Of course. Yeah. And you can't do that. You gotta just go, ah, well, this is going to suck

[00:29:27] for a while. And you know that, you know, which is why a long time ago, I was like on the podcast,

[00:29:34] like you have a story. I've actually interviewed people before they started tattooing. And it was

[00:29:41] just about like how they were trying to get into it. And then now they're in it. They're great. And

[00:29:47] they have more Instagram followers than me. So I'm like, that's awesome. You know, like, but you know,

[00:29:52] I, I got them, but like either right when their apprenticeship started or right before their

[00:29:58] apprenticeship and they were still hustling and still trying. And, you know, you still got a story

[00:30:03] from that point. Um, and I, and I think that it's, um, it's nice to have, um, a touchstone

[00:30:11] because I have a lot of passion about giving people information. I just, you know, I can't

[00:30:17] right now, I can't be a mentor for one person because the environment that I'm in is not really

[00:30:23] conducive to that. I understand. Yeah. But I, if I, if I can give a little bit to somebody and just

[00:30:28] plant little seeds here and there and people, and just kind of like be like a foreign

[00:30:33] I don't know, like cheerleader, I love that shit. You know, that's great. Well, when we first started

[00:30:40] talking, um, you definitely had a, uh, a teacher's, a teacher's like vibe that was like, you're doing

[00:30:49] your own thing, but you're, you're a sweetheart in nature and you, you care about other people.

[00:30:55] And you just were like, you know what, I'm going to, I'm going to give you a push in the right

[00:31:00] direction type of thing. And that's, that's just what I picked in our conversations were

[00:31:05] always positive. It was always like, Oh, that's so cool what you're doing. And let's be honest.

[00:31:11] Let's take a look at back where I was. And it was, that was just very kind of you to be talking

[00:31:17] to me where I was back then. And there was another individual that did the same thing,

[00:31:22] total sweetheart. And, uh, he told me other things to push in the right direction, you know?

[00:31:28] And, uh, I've now interacted with both of you at a professional level. And it's, it's so,

[00:31:38] it's heartwarming because it's like, it's people that I looked up to and now it's like, I still

[00:31:44] have a ways to go, but it's like the, you guys are still people. Well, every, every, it's all,

[00:31:50] I don't, the, the minute you stop learning in life, I think is the minute you, you should either

[00:31:56] completely stop what you're doing or it's the moment that you pass away. So I think we,

[00:32:01] we continue to learn whether that is positive or negative learning all the way up to our time of

[00:32:08] death. But it's just, it's so great for me that I get to interact with you in this way, because it's

[00:32:14] things that I looked up to since I was house scratching, since I was doing work that was

[00:32:22] less than optimal, less than what I would look at now to put out in public or on people and feel

[00:32:31] any level of pride. But it was, uh, it was all like positive interactions.

[00:32:38] Well, I've been very blessed in my life, um, to have incredible mentors. And so when I realized,

[00:32:47] uh, in a, in a big way that that is not the world around, um, I really, it, it made me like really

[00:32:56] recognize I don't have kids. So that's the other thing is that like, if you don't have kids, that's a,

[00:33:02] it's a very big choice. And, um, it's not one that I would say for anybody to take lightly,

[00:33:08] but I think if you choose not to do that, you better make up for that. And a lot of really,

[00:33:12] um, big ways. And for me, it's always, it's always going to be, um, a space of mentorship and kindness

[00:33:21] and trying to uplift people and things like that. That's, that's just what I aim to be. So it makes

[00:33:26] me really happy that at least that's how I'm perceived by you. I can, I can, I can have my

[00:33:32] moments, but I'm glad that that was the perception. Oh no. I, yeah. I only ever got a good positive

[00:33:39] vibes from you. So I appreciate that very much. Thank you. Oh no, I appreciate you. It's, it's,

[00:33:45] it's really cool. And, um, you know, this all happened because you checked back in with me and

[00:33:49] he was like, Hey, what's up? You know, it's been a long time and that I appreciate too.

[00:33:54] Yeah. Cause I'm bad at that. Oh, me too. Me too. And in our, in our trade, in our profession,

[00:34:03] we go through this. And I think especially now with Facebook, with Instagram, with the internet,

[00:34:10] we go through this where we interact with people all over and then we lose touch with people.

[00:34:18] And then we come back into touch with people. And sometimes we interact with people in different

[00:34:23] parts of the world. And it's like, we're best friends for a period of time. And then we go do

[00:34:29] something else. And it's just part of our job. Yeah. Part of our job is our interaction goes,

[00:34:36] not 100% keeping up with each other because we have so much other things to keep up with.

[00:34:43] Yeah. My best friends are busy people. Like we don't see each other a lot, but when we do,

[00:34:47] man, we have a lot of fun and that's what I love. Yeah, no, totally. I have actually,

[00:34:52] I have an interview tomorrow with a guy that's in Australia and, uh, wonderful. Yeah. When we

[00:34:58] first met, he was, I think he was listening to me from Australia. I'm not quite sure. What was it

[00:35:04] that, that I'll have to ask him what it was that, that connected us at this point, but we were, I mean,

[00:35:10] he was sharing with me like playlists and, um, his kids are really cool. Um, they, uh, they go to

[00:35:17] skate parks and shit and his daughter is incredible. I'm like, wow, wow. You guys, I wish you were here,

[00:35:23] man. Like this is dope. And, um, Australia and hang out for a week or two just to see.

[00:35:29] I'm telling you, but you know, he, uh, the, the, the visa to work there is pretty intense from what

[00:35:35] I've understood is that, yeah, you gotta, you gotta apply for it. Like it'd be best if you applied for

[00:35:42] it at least a year ahead of a time. Um, not that you need that much time, but anything can happen.

[00:35:47] Um, so people that I've heard that have been very, um, prudent about it have done so like at least

[00:35:53] six months prior and, you know, anything, anything can shake loose with it. But, um, yeah, it's a,

[00:36:00] it's a pretty intense, uh, which, you know, I don't mind. Cause if you're going to have rules,

[00:36:06] definitely enforce them and definitely, you know, make sure that they're working for your people.

[00:36:10] So I appreciate it, but I've heard it's pretty intense. Um, not that I wouldn't want to go

[00:36:15] cause it seems awesome. And, um, he's definitely lovely. He's actually an English guy who moved to

[00:36:21] Australia. So he's got a little bit of like a, a blend accent. I want to play with the baby kangaroos.

[00:36:30] They're like kind of like, uh, rabbits or bunnies and kittens to me. Yeah. That's how I,

[00:36:37] how I view them. It's just a little hopping kitten that I'm just like, Oh, come here and come here.

[00:36:42] I need to hold you. I know. Right. Like the only problem is, is that you got the, the,

[00:36:47] the adult ones to deal with. They'll kill you. Oh my God. They're crazy. Oh my God. Yeah. That's

[00:36:53] I looked at one that I have a picture of saved in my phone, um, from a kangaroo sanctuary. And I

[00:37:00] believe it was a kangaroo that, uh, passed away, but it looks like a man on steroids. Yep. Just in

[00:37:07] animal form. And I was like, Oh my God. It was like, that thing will kick you, gouge you. That

[00:37:12] thing will beat you up and then tear you apart. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Like, no, I'm not going near

[00:37:18] your babies. No, I just wanted to, I wanted to pet them and say, Oh, it's like a kitten, but no,

[00:37:23] I think I'm good. I'm good. I know. Right. Yeah. Um, marsupials in general are, are very interesting

[00:37:29] and very cute. Um, not all of them are the most intelligent or wise to go around, but

[00:37:35] they are very cute. Right. No, that's awesome. Um, what, uh, like, so what are your inspirations

[00:37:43] right now? Is it mostly, uh, manga and, and, um, um, there, there's a lot that inspires me.

[00:37:51] Um, I have been really getting into that cartoon, um, anime type of art and it's funny. I don't

[00:38:00] really watch that stuff. Like it's fun. People talk to me about it all the time. I, I used

[00:38:05] to, uh, hang out with someone. He would be like, do you watch anime? And I was like,

[00:38:10] do you mean like South park? And I mean, he would like go into detail about animes. And

[00:38:14] I was like, almost to the point where I wanted to yawn. And I was like, Oh, good God. But

[00:38:20] now it's like, I've seen a few. Um, I watched attack on Titan and I loved it so much that

[00:38:28] there's no anime that can compare to it. And I, it kind of like, it was so good that it

[00:38:34] ruined the anime for me in a sense, but the artwork is incredible. And I just, I found a

[00:38:41] new medium while being in love with this to where it's video game art. Uh, video game

[00:38:50] my God, Nintendo knows what it's doing. It just makes such cool artwork. And I just, I

[00:38:55] get lost in the artwork of Nintendo, but, uh, video game art, uh, comic book art, uh, let's

[00:39:02] see, animes, mangas, even cartoons. You put some Scooby-Doo in front of me and I'm like,

[00:39:08] Oh man, look at these old school drawings. I'm so cool with it. But to tattoo that would

[00:39:13] just be like, dude, you're bringing like the little kid in me is like jumping up and

[00:39:19] down with joy. And it's like, it's almost like healing in a sense, because it's like,

[00:39:24] I'm doing something that is like healing from my childhood that I'm reliving, but I'm also

[00:39:30] doing it as an adult in a professional setting that I get to give somebody something that they

[00:39:36] walk away with me. Like, man, I love it. He loves it. It was a good experience at the end

[00:39:42] of it where he was bouncing up and down practically with joy doing it. And it that's, that's really

[00:39:47] like Disney tattoos to Disney art that that's stuff that like, Oh, I fall in love with, but,

[00:39:53] um, inspiration for me, there's a lot that inspires me and I can appreciate art for art.

[00:40:01] Uh, one thing I will never appreciate is that quote unquote, ignorant style. I don't even know

[00:40:06] how it became a thing. I'm going to have to look it up. Cause I don't think I know what it

[00:40:11] is. Imagine, imagine the COVID 2020. I probably do it. College kids getting a tattoo machine

[00:40:18] and just thinking, Oh, I'm a tattoo artist and start blasting people. That's what would be ignorant

[00:40:24] style. Okay. So, so, so we had a legit thing. Like it became, Oh no, I know because here's what

[00:40:33] happened. I'm going to, I'm going to rob your, and maybe, I think I've put this out there before.

[00:40:37] I'm not sure. It's been a long time though. So it'll be good for refresh, but I'm going to

[00:40:41] I'm going to take over your interview here for a second. We had the boys from one direction come

[00:40:47] into our studio one day and, um, I know, right. Um, it wasn't all of them. It was just three of them.

[00:40:54] It was Liam, uh, Louis and, um, Zane. It was, um, it was, it was, it was pretty crazy. Uh, we were

[00:41:04] looking up before they came, we got word from their bodyguards that they were coming, but they

[00:41:09] wouldn't tell us who was coming. So we're like, who's in the area? And we're like, Oh my God,

[00:41:12] Mick Jagger's in the area. I was like, dude, Mick Jagger comes through the door. I totally was busy.

[00:41:20] I was, it was my draw day. I had a huge back piece. I had to draw. So I was like, well, I'm not,

[00:41:25] I'm not tattooing them. And they were like, you're not going to tattoo Mick Jagger if he comes

[00:41:29] through. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I will. I don't know. I don't know. It depends on what

[00:41:34] he wants, man. Like, so, so anyway, even if it's just a little letter, whatever, cool.

[00:41:40] I did. I did turn down. Um, I did turn down the boys from, um, one direction, but like Louis got

[00:41:48] tattooed by, um, our friend, uh, in their Tori and, um, he looked at Tori and he was like,

[00:41:56] yeah, yeah, yeah. That's perfect. That's perfect. But can you mess it up a bit? And Tori's like,

[00:42:02] what? And he's like, like, it was drawn in a notebook. Like, can you, can you mess it up a

[00:42:06] bit? And Tori was like, Tori is like a super, I mean, pristine, beautiful, traditional artist who

[00:42:16] does like, he'll, he'll use like a sign painter brush and do the entire, like this entire straight

[00:42:23] line border around his, his flash sheets that are like, if he wiggles the slightest bit,

[00:42:29] it's fucked. Like he's just messed it all up and he would do stuff like this. And it was super clean,

[00:42:36] super precise, beautiful work. And so he, this young kid is like, yeah, can you mess it up a bit? Like

[00:42:43] in a notebook and like Tori, like, like looks at me and then looks back at him and is like,

[00:42:48] no, no. Right. Wait 10 years. It'll look pretty messed up. But I'm not going to intentionally mess

[00:42:56] up your tattoo. So meanwhile, I'm like, I'm like the one that does the like sketchy scrobbly kind of

[00:43:06] work. And I'm just thinking he probably hates me so much right now because I'm just, I'm deciding

[00:43:11] not to tattoo these kids, these famous kids. And Zane was like sitting backwards on a chair being like,

[00:43:18] are you sure? Are you sure that you don't have time? And I'm like, nope, I got to draw this back

[00:43:24] piece. And I'm drawing the back piece the whole time. He's talking about, he's like, I like that

[00:43:29] piercing in your ear. It's industrial, right? He's like, I got one too, but I like to wrestle with

[00:43:35] my mates. And so like, it got infected. This is so crazy. And I'm like, he's like too close to me

[00:43:43] and he's gorgeous. And I'm like, you are way too young, like way too young. I do not like, this is a

[00:43:50] bad feeling right now. Like, like you are jailbait tastic. Like, I don't, I don't want, I do not want to

[00:43:59] be this attracted to you. You're far too young. Like get back. Like he was just, and he knew it. Like

[00:44:05] he was one of those people who was like, I know I'm good looking. I'm like, fuck you. Yes,

[00:44:08] you do. They're famous. So they, they just, they, they carry that everywhere. They carry

[00:44:13] persona everywhere. Yeah. But it was an interesting thing. Um, but yeah, I, I, uh, I get, I get the,

[00:44:21] the, what, what, what, what's the style? Like no education style. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I,

[00:44:29] that's, I think what they wanted. Oh, there's what they wanted. I'm not sure.

[00:44:34] Well, I mean, you look at some famous people and, uh, you see some of their work and it's like,

[00:44:40] well, they got tattooed just to get tattooed. But I mean, I have no room to talk because I blasted my

[00:44:48] body, like completely blasted my body with tattoos just to learn. Yeah. You did it to learn though. You

[00:44:55] had a reason. Well, no, you didn't tell me you said that it fell out, but what did you try to put

[00:45:00] on your hand? Oh, it was a tribal design and it, uh, it was trash. I actually got it removed to join

[00:45:08] the army. And then when the recruiter saw it, they were like, oh, it looks like a brand. Well,

[00:45:13] we can't, that won't work. We have to, uh, make it look like it's not a brand. And, and now I'm

[00:45:20] blasted all over. I got my neck, my head and it's, it's, so it's, it was ridiculous rules anyways,

[00:45:27] for the army. Um, and it came down to, uh, I believe I was told that the Sergeant major of

[00:45:34] the army has the choice over the tattoo rule. And right after like, I really was done processing,

[00:45:43] they changed the rule to, oh yeah, you can get hand tattoos too, and get into the army. But once

[00:45:48] you're in the army, yeah, you can get tattooed pretty much all over. Um, so that was, uh, to get

[00:45:55] in there the qualifications, but now it, it doesn't life does what life does and I'm where

[00:46:00] I'm supposed to be, but no, I, I love that story. You know? Yeah. It would have been a much different,

[00:46:06] um, life had that happened. Yeah. Who knows, who knows where life would have taken me or where it

[00:46:14] takes you if you divert from the path that you're on. Um, but yeah, I put some, I get it. I didn't

[00:46:21] intentionally try to make the bad, but yeah, I guess you could say, uh, put some bad tattoos on

[00:46:26] myself, but no, in, in, uh, answer to your question, what inspires me is, um, I've had a

[00:46:32] lot of inspiration from coworkers, a lot of inspiration from people that I have known in

[00:46:39] the industry, people that I've interacted with that have been kind and sweet to me, people that,

[00:46:44] um, I stay in contact with, um, it's, I, I find personal inspiration that I find other inspiration

[00:46:53] from people that I just interact with here or there one time, say via Instagram and where, um,

[00:47:00] you just, you, you just shoot your shot and then you actually get a response and message. And it's like,

[00:47:06] oh, that was so cool. I didn't expect that. And then you start actually analyzing the work that

[00:47:11] they do. And you're like, after you've had the message and you're like, wow, this is really in

[00:47:17] depth. This is really intense. Like the amount of time that it would have taken to produce this

[00:47:25] is years. And the attention to detail on this is pristine. It's down to the last little mag mark,

[00:47:35] which is some stuff you look at, you're like, where is anything? Like I cannot see a single flaw,

[00:47:43] but you look at every tattoo that I have done. And I'm like, man, I like this, except for that,

[00:47:49] or man, this is, I like, or I'll look at stuff that I did in my early days. There's nothing but

[00:47:53] flaws, but I mean, even the stuff I'm doing now, I look at and I, I promote and I love, but then I

[00:47:59] look at it again. I'm like, you know, if I had just done this, this, this here, that, that there,

[00:48:05] I mean, I think, I think we all do that. I think that's a part of our journey is we all look at our

[00:48:11] work and we wonder what we could have done to make it look better and different. But no, there's a lot

[00:48:17] that inspires me. All, all mediums of art, all level of work that pushes me in the right direction

[00:48:25] and makes it like, for example, I'm not a big painter, but if I look at professional painters

[00:48:32] and I see the stuff that they do, I'm like, oh my, look at those blends. We'll use Picasso for an

[00:48:40] example. You look at a Picasso painting and it's like, how? Like, I know that it took a long time and

[00:48:48] it's layers and you're just, you're, you're staying on it and you're just staying consistent with it. But

[00:48:54] how? And then we can break it down to the fundamentals of, well, this is where he had to

[00:49:01] have begun or she had to have begun. And this is where you build and this is what you do. And, but

[00:49:06] that's, that's all a part of the process and journey. And there's a lot that inspires me except for this

[00:49:12] intentionally doing a bad tattoo to do a tattoo. And it disgusts me. I don't think it should exist in

[00:49:20] tattooing, but that is just my opinion, you know? Well, I mean, in some ways, praise God, because,

[00:49:27] um, I know that they might do enough bad ones that they do good ones eventually, you know?

[00:49:35] Yeah. That's, yeah, that's my story. You do enough bad to get good.

[00:49:39] Yeah. They might. I mean, it's funny because I came in with very, um, some things that I was

[00:49:45] good at, um, that of course, nobody gave me credit for being good at it because it wasn't

[00:49:52] tattooing. They were like, ah, this is tattooing. He needs more black. Um, but like I, I had a style

[00:49:59] that, that people responded to that was rare in the area and I did a fairly good job at it, but, um,

[00:50:05] enough so that people kept back coming back. I'm sorry about the storm that's in the back. It's

[00:50:09] giving it this nice ambiance, very yoga, but there's like a big, there's like a big thunderstorm

[00:50:14] outside. So hopefully I don't lose power or nothing, but, um, yeah. So, uh, I, I did that.

[00:50:22] And then I started doing a lot of big stuff and people say I have a style. I don't know if I do,

[00:50:30] but like now I really just, I love things that are just technically really solid. Like I,

[00:50:39] I admire things that take such unbelievable precision to do that. I'm like, wow, dude,

[00:50:45] that is so clean. Like that's so clean. And I try to, I try to test myself with those things. I'm still

[00:50:53] really, I'm really good at things that are loose and like happy accident. But like, if there's

[00:51:00] anything that's precise and intentional, those things are so hard for me. And you know, it's,

[00:51:06] it's like, we we've been talking about, like, it's not that I don't have something that's really good.

[00:51:12] That's marketable that people buy and all this stuff, um, that I do, but I still envy what other

[00:51:21] people do. Like my friend Tori, who can just see, he can paint a line that looks, it's just looks like

[00:51:26] it comes out of computer. It's like, dude, how did you do that? How did you do that? That is crazy to

[00:51:33] me. And when you watch it and it's on white paper, white paper, he's using like acrylic ink that like

[00:51:40] you can't, there's not a painting on acrylic ink is, is damn near impossible. But some people they've

[00:51:49] just mastered how to do that. He's so good. And I'm just like, wow, dude. Wow. And such a sweetheart

[00:51:56] too. Um, but yeah, like I, I admire that a lot now. Like I admire so much more now, the things that I

[00:52:04] really don't do well. And I guess that's how it works. You know, like you, you look at other people

[00:52:09] and you want what they have and, and, and what they're able to do. And, um, but that's, that's how

[00:52:14] we all grow. Now, uh, question, is there any, um, there's a lot of questions. Uh, is there anything

[00:52:21] that surprised you about tattooing when you started getting into it? I mean, you'd said that it's a whole

[00:52:26] another medium, but is there anything about it that you didn't anticipate that you learned? And

[00:52:31] you're like, whoa, that's pretty cool. I didn't know that. Or that's a challenge or just something

[00:52:37] that like kind of blows your mind about it. Surprise me from the beginning. Um, well, I guess it's a

[00:52:45] two-part, two-part answer to that question. Um, in the beginning, what surprised me was, uh, I thought

[00:52:52] I was going to get into tattooing and it was going to be, it was going to be fun until I picked up the

[00:52:57] tattoo machine to tattoo on other people. And then I got freaked out because I was like, oh my God,

[00:53:03] I am about to actually put ink on someone. If I do a bad job, I'm going to really make someone upset.

[00:53:10] And then I've done something to somebody that is on them and they're either going to have to get

[00:53:16] removed. They're going to have to get covered up. Um, but that is still like, it's always a part of

[00:53:21] you're like something in the back of your mind. Like I can't do this. I can't do a bad job on this

[00:53:27] because what if someone hates it? And the sad truth is you're not going to make everyone happy.

[00:53:35] That is the sad truth. And especially when you're starting out, there are people actually that cannot

[00:53:41] be happy that I've also learned. Yeah. Yeah. I, I won't go into that story. I won't say it,

[00:53:48] but, uh, I do have a story. Um, someone who was very happy with my work and then gave me kind of

[00:53:57] like subtly threatened me and then, then gate, and then was talking bad about, uh, the people I care

[00:54:03] of my coworkers and people I care about. And then, uh, my former coworkers and other people that I care

[00:54:10] about. And I, well, um, I definitely won't name drop, but, uh, it was someone I tattooed and, uh,

[00:54:18] totally happy with the tattoo. And then it just went, I think there might be some mental issues

[00:54:25] there. And then got real personal. Yeah. We'll just, I think there was some mental issues there.

[00:54:30] And, uh, I went opposite. Like there's some people, man, like it just doesn't matter how hard you work,

[00:54:37] how good a work you do. They're just looking for a reason to critique something, you know,

[00:54:42] like it's just be happy. Some people are happy being unhappy, which is mind boggling to me. I cannot

[00:54:49] wrap my head around it and I cannot fathom the idea of being upset, trying to live, to be upset. I,

[00:54:58] I, I cannot understand it. Well, I, I don't, I feel bad for them honestly, because it, it seems like,

[00:55:08] yeah, it seems like, it's like, um, I don't know, man, like, I don't know how they do anything.

[00:55:18] Like, I don't know. Like, how do you, how do you move throughout life if you're that critical all

[00:55:24] the time? And if you're that, you know, if, if, if just things have to be such, you know, in a,

[00:55:30] particular way, it's got, it's, it's a, have you ever seen the movie as good as it gets?

[00:55:36] No. Oh, you should watch it. It's a good movie. You'll love it. And it has art in it. So you'll

[00:55:42] love it. It's really, really good. Um, it has, it's a Jack Nicholson film, really good. Um, um,

[00:55:49] I'll, I'll preface it and this is good for posterity because your generation doesn't watch anything.

[00:55:54] Um, so I know, I know, uh, it's not a cartoon. Um, um, don't get me wrong. I can get deep with some,

[00:56:04] uh, some cinema. I can go and, and cartoons can get deep with like, you know, their themes. I'm

[00:56:10] not even trying to diss the medium too much to where it's like heart wrenching way too much.

[00:56:16] This, this one's a feel good, but, um, it, it explores a main character that has, um, uh, OCD,

[00:56:22] like major OCD. Okay. And, um, it, it kind of, it'll explore this in a way that I think you will

[00:56:31] love. Um, Cuba Gooding Jr. is in it. Um, uh, Greg Kinnear, uh, Laura Linney, it's got like an

[00:56:39] all-star cast. It's really, really good. And, um, it's a, it's a feel good movie too, by the end.

[00:56:45] Like you won't be like, like sometimes Japanese animes. I'm like, what did I just watch?

[00:56:50] Yeah. When did I just watch? That happens. Like they're very real because they don't give you

[00:56:57] any resolve. It's just like life continues. Yeah. Some of those, I grew up on those real cheesy,

[00:57:04] uh, Kung Fu movies and, uh, where it's all the lip syncing, but some English man is doing like,

[00:57:11] or English woman is doing like the voiceover and the end of the movie, there is no resolution.

[00:57:17] It's just, okay. It's the end. And it's like, oh my God, did I watch a comedy film? We're like,

[00:57:23] what did I watch? It was just a lead up to the next one. Sometimes there's not even a next one.

[00:57:30] It's just, it was just plot. And that was, that was quite funny. It seems like something,

[00:57:38] something somebody, uh, smoking something would enjoy. But apart from that, like I grew up on

[00:57:45] stuff. Like I like something that has a good resolution or there's good points they make in

[00:57:51] the movie or they, they have a message even in stories, books. You will love this movie.

[00:57:58] Okay. I have to check it out as good as it can. Seek it out. Seek it out. Um, I think it's worth,

[00:58:03] even if you have to rent it, like on prime, do it. Have a movie night as for everybody out there,

[00:58:09] as good as it gets, it is phenomenal. So if you haven't seen it, yeah.

[00:58:15] Good as it gets. My suggestion is, uh, the last samurai.

[00:58:19] Last samurai is a great film in love with that film. That's, uh, Oh, the, the culture and the time

[00:58:26] period and, Oh, the, the cinematography as far as, uh, the music and, uh, the, you know what your

[00:58:35] part is? What's my part? Your part is if I were to be in your realm, too many mind, no mind.

[00:58:48] Mind the sport. Mind the people watch, mind to enemy.

[00:58:53] Yeah. You, uh, you, uh, I can tell you're like, Oh God, you know, like just what you were

[00:58:59] telling me about, like, Oh, I did. It just like, as soon as I got it in my hand, I was like

[00:59:06] overwhelmed by the gravity of what it is to tattoo somebody.

[00:59:10] Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's, that's exactly what it is. Yeah. Going back to answer your

[00:59:17] question. That's exactly what it is. When you first start out and pick the machine up,

[00:59:23] it is too many mind. You, you literally think of a million things. It overwhelms you. Then you put

[00:59:29] the machine down or you tattoo when you're already nervous. And then here comes squiggle, squiggle,

[00:59:35] squiggle, squiggle, not in the skin, not skin up too deep blowouts. And then it's like,

[00:59:38] Oh my God, what did I just do to this other human being? What did I do to this other person that is

[00:59:45] sitting in the chair directly across from me? So no, that is, uh, to answer your question. Um,

[00:59:53] what I thought was what I did not expect from tattooing. That was one of the things when I started

[01:00:01] out that, and over time it's gotten easier, but there's still times where you, you'll not be in the

[01:00:08] best state of mind to be tattooing. Oh, honesty. If that's the case, you should be at home working

[01:00:13] on whatever it is going on. If there is something going on that is affecting your hand and your mind

[01:00:20] that day, then maybe the hand in the mind need a rest and you need to work on whatever's going on in

[01:00:27] life. All right. And that's part two. Uh, I felt like that was a good, good point to end at, you know,

[01:00:39] leave you guys to do whatever it is that's on your heart right now, uh, to invest in. Uh, thank you so

[01:00:46] much for the time that you've given us today. It was a, it was a full hour of attention. So much

[01:00:51] appreciated, hopefully, uh, because this was a listening only experience. You were able to

[01:00:56] do what I tend to do and what I've been called to do lately as the fall has come, which is

[01:01:01] to do some organizing and cleaning, uh, and you know, just, just reevaluating. So it's, it's a good

[01:01:08] time to kind of wall in a little bit and, uh, reevaluate, make some good choices in your life.

[01:01:16] Um, no reason why you can't listen to a podcast or someone's experience, um, catch us back listeners.

[01:01:24] There's, there's a third piece to this diary entry with Kevin Klein. Kevin, thank you so much. Uh,

[01:01:30] again, listeners it's Donkey Kong tattoos on IG. If you'd like to follow tattoo icons as well,

[01:01:38] uh, you can find, uh, resources on Kevin's page to follow them, but definitely follow Kevin.

[01:01:44] I, uh, I look forward to keeping in touch with him over, uh, you know, the, the length of his

[01:01:50] time as a professional and, uh, he's the type of person that I don't see any reason why we wouldn't

[01:01:55] be friends for, for longer than that. So thank you very much. Uh, good day and God bless listeners.

[01:02:02] You have a powerful week and we'll catch you back for part three later.

[01:02:12] Thanks for listening. You can find the apprenticeship diaries on Twitter,

[01:02:15] Facebook, and Instagram. Our IG is the underscore apprenticeship underscore diaries. If you would

[01:02:22] like to offer constructive criticism or an interview, drop us an email at theapprenticeshipdiaries

[01:02:26] at gmail.com. We look forward to hearing from our listeners.