Ep. 242. "Present" (Diary Entry 1:2 with Nicole DeRoy)

[00:00:00] Well hello and happy Wednesday. Merry Christmas to those that apply. I hope it was a wonderful holiday and I also got wind that the first day of Hanukkah started yesterday so happy Hanukkah to those that it applies. Kwanzaa I guess is another one. I don't know much about Kwanzaa I admit. Happy all, all the holidays, all the celebrations, hope it was spent with gratitude.

[00:00:30] Celebrating the many gifts that we are given in this world. I admit that I completely blanked I was supposed to post this yesterday. Nicole, she's she she knew it happened. She said it was she said she felt it and you know, it's the holidays so of course she felt it. She knew I'd forget. But I forgot and I didn't I didn't know I'd forget.

[00:00:58] I had every intention. It was on my list and I didn't check it off. So this was a wonderful, just kind of like touching convo that I have with Nicole DeRoy. It was post post paradise. We had seen each other again. We've been talking about a lot of different faith based topics.

[00:01:22] topics. Before this and we would just wanted to sit down and have a jam session. This is only part one there there is another part I don't know how long the second half is going to be but I do know that there will be outtakes that include the wonderful Rico because he joined us later.

[00:01:42] But in the interest of keeping this a nice slice of our conversation.

[00:01:48] Not not not not to extend longer than an hour or so. I cut this into two parts. So please come back next week for part two.

[00:01:57] Nicole is always worth it Nicole DeRoy. And I'm I'm dubbing this first, this first half of this diary entry present.

[00:02:09] Because it was a gift. And I appreciate you Nicole and I know our listeners will too. All the better to stay present. It's a gift, right? Enjoy.

[00:02:25] Welcome to the apprenticeship diaries where raw meets refined. Let's be real we're still working on what it took what it takes and the stories that are made. Join us as we learn from professionals about how their stories begin.

[00:02:46] We will never give you permission Amy.

[00:02:50] I'm gonna miss a thing. I want to get it all.

[00:02:55] I've been stupid. I'm sorry.

[00:02:56] I figured I would do the proper thing this time and use like a headset.

[00:03:00] It it it does help. It's surprising how it helps.

[00:03:04] Yeah. I mean, this is like the oldest fucking like.

[00:03:10] iPhone earbuds I've ever had in my life. I just pulled them out of a random drawer.

[00:03:14] I don't even know how I still had them.

[00:03:16] They sound great.

[00:03:17] Good.

[00:03:18] Great. Yeah, yeah. It's all working.

[00:03:20] I hope all my cords obey and do I'm not sure if it's the cord or the Yeti microphone I have, but sometimes it'll just decide.

[00:03:29] They're like, oh, we don't want to anymore.

[00:03:31] Yeah, probably a cord.

[00:03:33] I don't know.

[00:03:34] It's stupid.

[00:03:38] We so we were talking.

[00:03:40] Well, I know that you have asked me a few times about this and we were gonna like have like a kind of a spiritual.

[00:03:48] Uh, meet and jam about tattooing in general.

[00:03:52] And, um, first of all, nobody knows who's talking right now.

[00:03:57] They know me.

[00:03:58] Um, but everyone, this is Nicole DeRoy.

[00:04:02] Hello.

[00:04:03] Thanks for coming back.

[00:04:05] Yeah.

[00:04:05] Yeah.

[00:04:06] Happy to be here, my friend.

[00:04:07] I know we're we're post paradise.

[00:04:10] Um, that wonderful show that does so much for the soul.

[00:04:16] It really is just life changing.

[00:04:18] It's totally life changing.

[00:04:20] Yeah.

[00:04:21] Well, I guess that.

[00:04:22] Well, that's a good place to start because I, I get tired of hearing my damn self.

[00:04:28] Um, I know what my shit is.

[00:04:31] But I missed out on a lot of stuff this year in paradise.

[00:04:34] How was it for you?

[00:04:35] Because you did a lot of stuff this year.

[00:04:37] Yeah, I did a lot of stuff.

[00:04:39] I didn't do as much this year as I did last year.

[00:04:42] I learned my lesson.

[00:04:46] Because last year I felt like I was running around like a chicken with my head cut off.

[00:04:51] Literally like barely having time to scarf down a sandwich walking from one seminar to the other.

[00:04:56] And I was like, nope, never again.

[00:04:57] Um, but even then, like I, you know, I took quite a few seminars this year as well.

[00:05:05] And I don't know, the vibe was just so much different this year.

[00:05:08] Did you feel that?

[00:05:10] Yeah, but I played it.

[00:05:12] I played it way different than I ever do.

[00:05:14] No, that's true.

[00:05:14] You did.

[00:05:15] I mean, it wasn't a bad thing.

[00:05:17] It was just like, it seemed a lot more chill, a lot more relaxed and a lot more familial.

[00:05:25] Mm-hmm.

[00:05:26] In a sense.

[00:05:28] Yeah.

[00:05:29] So, I thought that was really cool.

[00:05:31] You were walking in last year not knowing anybody though.

[00:05:35] This is true.

[00:05:36] Yeah.

[00:05:36] So that might be why.

[00:05:38] So it's like, oh, now I actually know some people.

[00:05:40] Yeah, yeah.

[00:05:41] And you know, you're not staying.

[00:05:43] You're not, you're not, you know.

[00:05:44] You didn't raw dog it before you came prepared.

[00:05:47] But I'm just saying, like you walked into like living with people.

[00:05:50] Don't wrap that shit.

[00:05:51] This is, this is going to be fine.

[00:05:53] I've only met this person, this one person off the internet and I'm just, you know,

[00:05:57] I'm going to go with.

[00:05:59] Imagine how much of a nightmare that would have been if we did not vibe in person.

[00:06:04] I just had such a feeling.

[00:06:06] Shout out to the Stapleton collection of people, Jason Stapleton, because every single person

[00:06:12] I've met through that avenue has been stellar.

[00:06:14] So I don't know, I just felt very confident in that kind of screening thing.

[00:06:23] Everybody was drawn there, I think very integrally post COVID.

[00:06:29] Crazy, you know, motivated by the same need.

[00:06:34] Absolutely.

[00:06:35] Yeah.

[00:06:36] Abso-freaking-lutely.

[00:06:37] It was a good screening tool.

[00:06:39] Yeah, that was cool.

[00:06:41] Um, yeah.

[00:06:43] So I mean, I guess more along this year's Paradise experience.

[00:06:48] Yeah.

[00:06:49] Um, I mean, it was, it was really great.

[00:06:52] I felt like the seminars that I did jump into kind of like piggybacked ones that I had taken

[00:06:58] last year a little bit.

[00:06:59] So it was like, I was able to like strat strategically be like, okay, what have I already received

[00:07:06] from this space?

[00:07:07] Where can I build off of that from here to literally maximize, um, the time here?

[00:07:15] Um, so I like that.

[00:07:17] I gave myself some more space too.

[00:07:18] It gave me a little bit more integration time, a little bit more reflection time.

[00:07:23] Um, yeah, it was, I just, I'm just already looking forward to next year, whatever that looks

[00:07:29] like.

[00:07:29] Heck yeah.

[00:07:30] Rico's like, we got our condo crew, man.

[00:07:33] He's like, that's it.

[00:07:34] That's it.

[00:07:35] We got our people.

[00:07:36] And I was like, no, it was a good condo crew.

[00:07:38] I just wish that I got a little bit more sleep.

[00:07:43] Dude, you, you are smart enough to go to bed.

[00:07:48] Yeah.

[00:07:49] At like two or three in the morning, some nights.

[00:07:51] Yeah.

[00:07:52] Mine was like four.

[00:07:53] And I was like, I saw, I saw.

[00:07:56] I was just so glad that I got myself my own room.

[00:08:02] Right.

[00:08:02] Yeah.

[00:08:03] I was just Irish good buying like every single night.

[00:08:06] I'm like, Oh, we're the party condo time to go to bed.

[00:08:10] Well, and see, that was, that was helpful for me to get anything out of it was not, you

[00:08:15] know, anything out of it.

[00:08:16] I had a great booth because I was stuck, not stuck.

[00:08:19] I was placed between wonderful people to just be surrounded by, but the booth situation

[00:08:25] was not as, you know, consistent.

[00:08:28] And, and the, the pace of it was not what a normal tattoo convention is, which is good

[00:08:34] because I don't like it at a normal tattoo convention.

[00:08:37] I don't know what, I guess it's just because it's paradise.

[00:08:40] I thought maybe like tattooing there would be its own.

[00:08:44] Um, no, a tattoo convention is a tattoo convention.

[00:08:48] Like you're tattooing at the convention.

[00:08:50] There's so much you're missing out on because you're tattooing.

[00:08:53] So, uh, I don't think I'll ever do that again at paradise just because I just had major FOMO

[00:09:00] the whole time.

[00:09:01] I mean, it doesn't sound like there's even going to be the option.

[00:09:04] It sounds like they're planning on just getting rid of it.

[00:09:06] I mean, which honestly is probably for the best.

[00:09:09] Cause it doesn't really have a draw.

[00:09:11] Yeah.

[00:09:12] So yeah.

[00:09:13] Unless you can line up people.

[00:09:15] If you have somewhat local to new England, you are willing to get in there, but.

[00:09:21] Yeah.

[00:09:21] Yeah.

[00:09:22] Yeah.

[00:09:23] Which is what Nick Baxter said.

[00:09:25] He said, you know, I worked around here.

[00:09:27] Like, so I had people see that's my audio device.

[00:09:30] It just decided to stop working.

[00:09:33] You see, I heard that cut out for a second, but it came right back.

[00:09:37] See if it'll, I think it's the wire.

[00:09:49] It's back.

[00:09:52] Can you hear me?

[00:09:53] Yeah.

[00:09:54] Cool.

[00:09:55] You can hear me before, right?

[00:09:57] Yeah.

[00:09:58] Yeah.

[00:09:58] My, it's just the difference between this really cool, like mic I have, which is really good.

[00:10:05] And then the ones on my computer, which aren't awful, but aren't that great.

[00:10:10] Yeah.

[00:10:12] Well, good.

[00:10:12] You can still hear me.

[00:10:14] That means we're still rolling.

[00:10:15] Sorry about that.

[00:10:16] All good.

[00:10:17] Hopefully.

[00:10:19] Please.

[00:10:20] But yeah, I hate, I hate troubleshooting this shit.

[00:10:24] Cause.

[00:10:25] Just can, can you let me know which one?

[00:10:28] Cause if I buy new cords and it's not the cords and I'm back here again.

[00:10:32] And then I just have all these cords.

[00:10:36] You know, it's like when batteries go bad, you know, the batteries ran out.

[00:10:42] Right.

[00:10:43] You don't, you don't say, Oh, maybe it's my microphone.

[00:10:46] I don't know.

[00:10:47] I don't know.

[00:10:49] Whatever.

[00:10:49] It is what it is.

[00:10:50] It is what it is.

[00:10:52] Um, yeah, this year was different.

[00:10:54] Um, definitely the PSA for me is, um, and to everyone is more sleep.

[00:11:00] Definitely more sleep.

[00:11:02] Yeah.

[00:11:03] Um, I got home.

[00:11:05] I was severely run down.

[00:11:08] Yeah.

[00:11:09] Same, same.

[00:11:10] It took me, it took me about a week to recover and I still need to do so much.

[00:11:14] I want to put my videos of everything and reflect on it, but I am, I was trash afterwards.

[00:11:20] Yeah.

[00:11:21] Um, and yeah, me too.

[00:11:22] And I don't even drink.

[00:11:23] Well, I know.

[00:11:24] And that was the other thing was like, no more, no more.

[00:11:28] If, if I am to drink sleep, if I, if I am not to sleep, don't drink.

[00:11:35] Um, yeah, I can't, I can't do both.

[00:11:40] Plus, you know, the, the walking around of paradise and all of the inundation.

[00:11:45] No.

[00:11:45] It's too much.

[00:11:46] No, it's just, it, it really is just an entire assault on our entire system.

[00:11:51] Like we're not fricking 18.

[00:11:56] Yeah.

[00:11:58] No, no.

[00:11:59] No.

[00:11:59] No.

[00:12:00] Maybe back then.

[00:12:01] I did enjoy the food.

[00:12:02] And as much as we did have deer meat, the rest, you know, like it, it, it was good, but

[00:12:07] there was a lot of inflammatory stuff just in there that, you know, couldn't be helped.

[00:12:11] You're traveling.

[00:12:11] It's the best that you can do, but sure.

[00:12:13] That didn't help me either.

[00:12:15] Sure.

[00:12:16] And definitely not enough water.

[00:12:17] I did not drink enough water at all.

[00:12:19] And for higher elevations, that was stupid.

[00:12:22] That was stupid.

[00:12:24] Like it was, it was full on stupid.

[00:12:26] Everything I did was stupid.

[00:12:29] Stupid.

[00:12:32] And man, did it kick my ass.

[00:12:34] Oh my God.

[00:12:35] It, I mean, I couldn't handle it even when I was younger, but I certainly can't handle

[00:12:42] it now.

[00:12:42] Like my body, but felt like hammered shit.

[00:12:45] It was bad.

[00:12:46] Yeah.

[00:12:46] I just like always have my emotional support water bottle with me.

[00:12:50] Yeah.

[00:12:51] I have it.

[00:12:52] Drinking.

[00:12:53] It's the other thing.

[00:12:54] Like I carry it around and be like, Oh, it'll just induce itself into my mouth somehow.

[00:12:59] No, you just got to do it.

[00:13:01] You got to get in the habit.

[00:13:02] But I mean, I feel like I'm forced to be in the habit, especially being in high elevation

[00:13:09] and in the desert.

[00:13:11] Yeah.

[00:13:11] Um, if I don't, it's a nightmare.

[00:13:14] Yeah.

[00:13:15] Um, which even then I could probably still afford to hydrate more.

[00:13:22] Yeah.

[00:13:22] Yeah.

[00:13:23] I do it well.

[00:13:24] Uh, normally, especially if I'm working out a lot.

[00:13:28] Um, I, I hydrate a lot, but the, that was not, that was not a good.

[00:13:34] Amy showing.

[00:13:36] It was a really great show, but it was not my best.

[00:13:40] I thought you were a delight.

[00:13:42] I try to be, I always try to be cause it's, you know, it's not about, it's not about how

[00:13:47] I feel.

[00:13:49] I mean, you're always good for bringing a lot of good craft goods.

[00:13:53] So man, that was fun.

[00:13:55] That was really fun.

[00:13:57] I had a great time with that.

[00:13:58] Yeah.

[00:13:59] It's wonderful.

[00:14:00] And I really appreciate you for that because sometimes it's difficult to, to fit art for

[00:14:07] the sake of art into our life, our life lifestyle with our schedules.

[00:14:13] It can be really difficult.

[00:14:15] Um, I'm slowly learning how to reprioritize it.

[00:14:21] Yeah.

[00:14:22] But you know, as, as life ebbs and flows and you move across the country, sometimes it takes

[00:14:27] you a while.

[00:14:28] Yeah.

[00:14:29] You've been doing a lot of that, that kind of stuff lately.

[00:14:31] I was reflecting really hard on literally the last year and it's, it's mind blowing how

[00:14:42] much I've done.

[00:14:44] Like, cause September last year, I flew out to San Diego for a guest spot with Reese.

[00:14:50] And then not even two months later, I went on my giant road trip after going to paradise

[00:14:57] in between that.

[00:14:58] That was a, that was a juggernaut of an event in itself.

[00:15:04] Like it was just as awesome.

[00:15:06] I'm sure it was.

[00:15:08] I'm sure it was.

[00:15:09] I, I tried to do one by myself.

[00:15:11] Nobody could tell me what to do.

[00:15:13] Nobody would let me, nobody would let me do it.

[00:15:16] I just wanted, I just wanted to go to a state like Oklahoma.

[00:15:19] I just wanted to go to Oklahoma and nobody would, she was like, you can't do that.

[00:15:23] You can't do that by yourself.

[00:15:24] And I'm like, the fuck I can't.

[00:15:26] Nicole did it.

[00:15:27] Yeah, I just did it.

[00:15:28] Why can't I?

[00:15:30] I've, I, what I wanted to be, I was like, and I have told people this since I used to

[00:15:34] travel with y'all without y'all all the time.

[00:15:36] I used to travel by myself all the time.

[00:15:38] I just didn't tell anybody.

[00:15:39] Right.

[00:15:40] Like, should I do it that way?

[00:15:41] Like, don't make me regret telling you about my plans.

[00:15:46] I'm trying to be safer now.

[00:15:49] Right.

[00:15:50] Like, I'm not keeping you out of it.

[00:15:53] It's just that like, I don't, I love the time with my dad, but like, I got every single

[00:16:00] gun handling safety course under my belt.

[00:16:03] I went, I like, I'm licensed in Utah now because of all that.

[00:16:06] Didn't even need it because he was like, I'm coming.

[00:16:09] I'm like, all right.

[00:16:09] All right.

[00:16:10] All right, cool.

[00:16:11] Whatever.

[00:16:12] You bring the guns.

[00:16:15] It was the funniest thing.

[00:16:17] I should, you know, I was in West Texas of all places at one of like the loves truck

[00:16:23] stops.

[00:16:24] Just like, you know, gassing up, getting a bathroom break in all that jazz.

[00:16:29] And like, I forget what I grabbed.

[00:16:32] I was probably a fucking coffee or something, but I was, I was waiting in line to pay.

[00:16:38] And this guy literally was like, I haven't really seen a woman carrying a pocket knife like that before.

[00:16:46] And I was like, dude, this is West Texas.

[00:16:49] Are you sure?

[00:16:50] Like, is this real life?

[00:16:52] And in my head, I was like, you don't want to know what's in my fanny pack.

[00:16:55] Do you?

[00:16:56] Yeah.

[00:16:57] Yeah.

[00:16:58] Or do you?

[00:17:03] Oh, Lord.

[00:17:04] This guy's worried about me having a pocket knife.

[00:17:07] Come on.

[00:17:09] No, I don't.

[00:17:10] Truck stops are fettered, man.

[00:17:12] Like I have gotten into the strangest conversations with people.

[00:17:16] I just smile and nod, smile and nod and keep my, keep my eyes, my head on a swivel.

[00:17:24] Always.

[00:17:25] Always.

[00:17:26] I feel like, I feel like, especially as women, that's just something that we learn to do at a young age.

[00:17:31] Head on a swivel.

[00:17:33] If we don't, we definitely feel the ramifications of it young.

[00:17:38] Absolutely.

[00:17:39] Absolutely.

[00:17:40] And that's the quickest way to making yourself a victim is by not having awareness and attention of your surroundings.

[00:17:47] Yep.

[00:17:48] Absolutely.

[00:17:49] I just, and the other thing, I get loud.

[00:17:52] No, no.

[00:17:53] I get really loud really quickly.

[00:17:55] Like, not like I'm screaming, like, get away from me.

[00:17:59] I said, no, not, not anything psycho.

[00:18:01] Because then, then I'm not getting anyone's empathy.

[00:18:05] Yeah.

[00:18:05] I just start elevating slightly the tone so that I know that I have very many witnesses in that space.

[00:18:13] Like, dude, you follow me out of here.

[00:18:16] There's a lot of people who are going to be very concerned.

[00:18:20] Absolutely.

[00:18:21] Yeah.

[00:18:21] Yeah.

[00:18:22] Absolutely.

[00:18:22] We all know you're creepy now.

[00:18:26] Yeah.

[00:18:27] And just, like, owning that, like, command presence is so important.

[00:18:30] Yeah.

[00:18:32] Yeah.

[00:18:32] I mean, whatever.

[00:18:34] If you want to be creepy, be creepy.

[00:18:36] I can be creepy, too, though.

[00:18:38] I love freaking them out.

[00:18:39] Like, lately, I ran into this guy at Tractor Supply.

[00:18:43] And I don't know how we got here.

[00:18:47] I think it was just that we were waiting in line too much for his, like, idea of what was comfortable.

[00:18:53] And somehow he got to the time.

[00:18:57] I guess because I'm tattooed up my throat.

[00:18:59] He figured, well, this is the only exchange rate I have is my nephew who got a dick piercing.

[00:19:06] But we got to his nephew's dick.

[00:19:09] My nephew has a piercing in his dick.

[00:19:11] I don't even know.

[00:19:12] Why would anybody do that?

[00:19:14] Cool, man.

[00:19:15] And I was like, oh, well, I actually know somebody who has 22 in their penis.

[00:19:19] And he was like, what?

[00:19:21] And I was like, yeah.

[00:19:22] He's like, why?

[00:19:23] And I was like, oh, we didn't ask that question.

[00:19:26] You don't ask that question.

[00:19:27] No.

[00:19:29] I would have to imagine he did it for him.

[00:19:36] And at that point, he was just like, oh, I have just been trumped.

[00:19:40] OK, I'm getting out of here now.

[00:19:42] Like, I could just automatically see the vibe shift.

[00:19:45] And he was like, oh, OK.

[00:19:48] I didn't know we'd get there.

[00:19:52] And I was like, yeah, bro, you have no fucking idea.

[00:19:56] I am wild.

[00:20:00] Like, I struggle every day to think, to even know if I'm a good person.

[00:20:04] Like, yeah.

[00:20:08] Just imagine being that piercer.

[00:20:11] Well, I know.

[00:20:12] I think there was many.

[00:20:14] I think there was many.

[00:20:15] I think he got around.

[00:20:16] He wanted 10 or no, 20 more.

[00:20:20] And the piercer that I talked to who witnessed all of this, too,

[00:20:25] she was like.

[00:20:29] He does technically have room.

[00:20:32] He's got it on top and bottom.

[00:20:35] 10.

[00:20:36] Lord.

[00:20:36] And he technically has rooms on both sides.

[00:20:40] I'm like, wow.

[00:20:41] Ranch for your pleasure, I guess.

[00:20:43] I suppose.

[00:20:44] I don't know whose pleasure.

[00:20:45] I don't know whose pleasure.

[00:20:46] I wouldn't want to lose whatever might get lost in me with that.

[00:20:51] No.

[00:20:51] Nope.

[00:20:52] Nope.

[00:20:52] Nope.

[00:20:53] Nope.

[00:20:53] Uh-uh.

[00:20:53] No.

[00:20:54] I hope it's for his pleasure.

[00:20:55] I hope it's all for him.

[00:21:00] I hope it's all for him.

[00:21:02] I don't know.

[00:21:03] I don't care.

[00:21:04] I don't get it.

[00:21:06] I don't know the why.

[00:21:07] I don't know the reason.

[00:21:08] I just know.

[00:21:09] I just know it's a thing.

[00:21:11] I don't want to know it's a thing, but I know it's a thing.

[00:21:14] And if you want to talk about it at Tractor Supply in line because you're just waiting too long,

[00:21:20] then sure, we can talk about it.

[00:21:25] Folks are wild.

[00:21:27] I will talk about whatever you want.

[00:21:30] As long as we're just talking.

[00:21:33] Well, this took a turn, didn't it?

[00:21:36] I'm telling you.

[00:21:38] I mean, you know, spiritual shit is it goes vast.

[00:21:42] It goes long, you know?

[00:21:44] Well, and I know what I was going to say is the initial thing that we decided to do this

[00:21:49] with was because I had said on a post of yours that I was actually looking to get out

[00:21:55] of tattooing.

[00:21:57] Like that was kind of where my heart was leaning towards.

[00:22:00] And part of the reason why I bring all this stuff to paradise is because I do.

[00:22:04] I am reconnecting a lot with art just for art's sake.

[00:22:09] And what does that mean to me?

[00:22:11] And what is next in that?

[00:22:13] And, you know, art was always the aim.

[00:22:17] That was always the aim.

[00:22:20] However, the reason why I love tattooing is because I do love people.

[00:22:25] And I do love this, the, the sacred space that is created in tattooing.

[00:22:33] And I love sharing that with people.

[00:22:36] And if I did it just for me, the art just for me, I think I need, I think I just need

[00:22:42] to heal.

[00:22:43] I think that really is the truth of it.

[00:22:45] I think something was broken in me that really needs to just keep healing.

[00:22:49] Honestly.

[00:22:49] Yeah.

[00:22:50] I feel like that's probably pretty accurate, especially if you're, you're having that reflection.

[00:22:56] That's your shadow just making itself shown to you.

[00:23:00] Yeah.

[00:23:01] And it's, I feel like it's really, really easy for, for people to forget why they're, they're

[00:23:11] tattooing to begin with.

[00:23:13] And that's something that I've had to sit with myself over and over again, even in just the

[00:23:18] few short years that I have been doing this is like, why, why am I doing this?

[00:23:23] And it has shifted and changed over time, especially as I've gotten further into it.

[00:23:27] And especially as I've developed further into who I am just as a person and also as

[00:23:33] a spiritual person.

[00:23:36] And it was like, when I first started, I was just like, yeah, that would be a cool way

[00:23:40] to make money.

[00:23:43] Like, I'm not going to lie.

[00:23:44] It was totally self-serving.

[00:23:45] And like, I was just like, yeah, I just want to fucking make sick tats, man.

[00:23:49] Like, but it, it was like one of those things.

[00:23:53] And when I reflect on it, I feel like looking back, it's almost like tattooing showed itself

[00:23:59] to me as a means of reclaiming my sovereignty, as a means of reclaiming my ability to show up

[00:24:07] for myself so that I can actually show up for others.

[00:24:10] Um, and as I got deeper into it throughout my apprenticeship and everything, I started recognizing

[00:24:18] like, wow, this is so sacred.

[00:24:21] This really is very special.

[00:24:23] The energy that I bring to the table really makes or breaks this entire experience for

[00:24:28] my client.

[00:24:30] And all bets were off from there.

[00:24:32] Yeah.

[00:24:33] Yeah.

[00:24:33] Yeah.

[00:24:33] It was never the same.

[00:24:34] Yeah.

[00:24:36] Yeah.

[00:24:36] Yeah.

[00:24:36] Well, it catches up with you very quickly.

[00:24:38] Yeah.

[00:24:39] If you're not like that, like it gets dark real fast.

[00:24:42] And it's not that I ever had like ill intentions going into it.

[00:24:46] It was just naivety, you know?

[00:24:47] Oh yeah, totally.

[00:24:49] Well, it couldn't be anything, but you're new to it.

[00:24:52] Mm-hmm.

[00:24:53] Yeah.

[00:24:54] You know?

[00:24:54] Um, for me, like I was reflecting today about why art, you know, why art?

[00:25:01] Art has always been a catharsis for me.

[00:25:05] And I feel like it's something that, um, is something that within tattooing, you can very

[00:25:13] much give and share with someone else.

[00:25:16] Mm-hmm.

[00:25:16] And you can teach them how to not only participate in art, which is a really cool way, all the

[00:25:23] things that you just said, reclaim sovereignty, um, you know, make a statement, you know, all

[00:25:28] reflection, um, little healing pain, all those good things.

[00:25:33] Um, but just, uh, you know, it really is a cathartic thing for me to do for myself.

[00:25:43] And I think the reason is, is because it, uh, lets me wrestle.

[00:25:48] It did it again.

[00:25:51] Right.

[00:25:51] When I said that.

[00:25:54] Oh God.

[00:25:56] You might want to repeat that one, Amy.

[00:26:01] It lets me wrestle with God.

[00:26:03] Um, the concepts within, um, art allows you to take out your, your mental machinations

[00:26:20] on an inanimate object or something that you are, have permission to destroy if you need

[00:26:28] to.

[00:26:29] Like I was talking about it today with my friend, Kathy.

[00:26:34] Um, you know, I think a really good anxiety exercise for people would be to do art and

[00:26:40] lead them through art projects and to let them know like, Hey, no attachment.

[00:26:47] There is no attachment here.

[00:26:49] If we're starting from a canvas when it's done, it's still going to be a canvas.

[00:26:54] You know, you're not going to alter what it is.

[00:26:57] It's still going to be that it's going to be that plus something else on it.

[00:27:01] Your attachment is what you're going to fail, not the thing itself.

[00:27:06] And if you want to even destroy the thing itself, it's just a canvas.

[00:27:10] So we could, we could take it outside and we can burn it in a pile and we can talk over

[00:27:15] cocoa, you know, like that could have its own thing too.

[00:27:18] But it's a way that people are able to really take out their, um, energy and their quandaries

[00:27:29] of life on something that is not going to suffer the consequences of that.

[00:27:35] And if anything, you know, you do it long enough and, and get good enough at it, it, it, it will

[00:27:41] afford you great things and people will want to buy it.

[00:27:44] And they'll want to, they'll want you to do that for a living.

[00:27:48] They'll want you to do it on them.

[00:27:50] And that's why tattooing is so magnificent is because it comes down to, okay, now you've

[00:27:56] done it so much on something that won't rebel and that we really don't care, you know?

[00:28:01] Okay.

[00:28:02] It, the, the, the Annie has gone up.

[00:28:05] Now you're doing it on a person.

[00:28:06] Now you can't mess up as much, right?

[00:28:08] You know, you have to be a lot more, a lot more accountability.

[00:28:12] Right.

[00:28:14] What has, was kind of broken for me.

[00:28:16] It was like my connection with people.

[00:28:18] I always, I always trusted people more than I should anyway.

[00:28:21] Um, I feel like that's a lot of us, honestly.

[00:28:26] It's just that human experience.

[00:28:28] We come here with, you know, bright eyed and bushy tailed and expecting the best of everything.

[00:28:33] And we're very quickly shown that life's not always like that, that not everybody always

[00:28:39] has their shit under control.

[00:28:42] Not everybody always has good interests for others.

[00:28:44] Um, and using discernment in that is super important.

[00:28:49] Or just boundaries.

[00:28:50] I mean, I, I'm, it's really hard not to, um, take, I think what I, I don't know.

[00:29:00] It's not personal.

[00:29:01] Like you said, like none of it's personal, even though it was really personal.

[00:29:05] Like it was really an assault against me from people who know, knew me for a very long time.

[00:29:11] And currently, like I, not too long ago had somebody say that she wished that she could peel off her skin, um, every place that I touched because I voted the way I did.

[00:29:26] Um, and I was like, whoa, whoa.

[00:29:31] Remember when we had a world where it wasn't anyone's business and that was just part of the democratic process?

[00:29:39] Well, and yeah, I do.

[00:29:40] I, whatever happened to that?

[00:29:43] Why can't we, why can't we keep that sacred anymore?

[00:29:46] Why does everyone have to be in everyone's business?

[00:29:50] I don't really mind people being in my business.

[00:29:52] I just don't think, and this is how I, I answered them was to say, um, I think you put me on too high a pedestal.

[00:30:01] I think that you really, you really elevated me far beyond what I should have been elevated to.

[00:30:08] Like you shouldn't put any human being on that kind of pedestal.

[00:30:12] No, because literally when you put somebody up on a pedestal, they have no choice, but to look down on you.

[00:30:18] Or to fall from that.

[00:30:20] Like, that's what it is for me.

[00:30:21] Like you put me up that high undeservingly.

[00:30:24] The only thing I have to do is to fall from that, from you.

[00:30:27] So you, you set up the situation for me to fail you.

[00:30:31] And you have to ask yourself why, why you would do that?

[00:30:35] Like I'm, all I did was, uh, remind them of just a few things like, uh, you know, that,

[00:30:43] that I'm not going to apologize for loving them and doing the best job that I could possibly do

[00:30:50] within the work that we did.

[00:30:52] And that I'm not going to apologize for using my right to vote in a way that I feel integral.

[00:30:58] Yeah.

[00:31:00] Um, and I really valued the time that we had together.

[00:31:05] I, you know, I can't, I can't, you know, you can't do anything about the past.

[00:31:11] And really in terms of my vote, when it comes down to the grand scheme of things, there's very

[00:31:18] little, I actually can affect within all of that.

[00:31:21] You know, what we can, yeah, what we can do is sit down as people, which, you know, this person

[00:31:27] and I did and talk and share something, which I really valued.

[00:31:32] And, uh, I, I, I felt sad that that was the case, but I was like, you know, clearly I don't

[00:31:37] meet your expectations.

[00:31:38] I understand if our work is done, our friendship is done.

[00:31:41] We had our season, you know, sometimes it's just a season, but you know, I, I, I, I'm,

[00:31:48] I'm not, I, I, I don't regret a single thing.

[00:31:53] And I, I let them know that I have a few tattoos on me that I don't no longer talk to the person

[00:31:59] that did them, you know, like, yeah, I feel like that's, that's like almost one of those

[00:32:04] like inevitable paradoxes about getting tattooed is you get yourself into situations or in working

[00:32:13] relationships with people.

[00:32:14] And then you end up going separate ways at some point.

[00:32:18] It just is how it goes.

[00:32:20] That's just life.

[00:32:21] It doesn't matter if it's a tattoo or, or if it's your neighbor or your best friend,

[00:32:26] we have these experiences regardless what it looks like.

[00:32:30] And I feel like, yeah, there's definitely, there's definitely an added energetic imprint

[00:32:37] to that when it comes to tattooing, because yeah, you see it every day.

[00:32:40] And you remember that person, you remember the experience you had.

[00:32:44] And then if you know, things do go ill, you remember that too.

[00:32:49] And I have a giant tattoo on my fucking thigh from the woman who taught me to tattoo and we're

[00:32:54] not on speaking terms.

[00:32:56] Yeah.

[00:32:57] Like, I see it every single day.

[00:32:59] And it's a very meaningful tattoo to me.

[00:33:01] It represents the hermit card, which is my birthday card.

[00:33:06] And yeah, like, it's this beautiful concept for me.

[00:33:10] And it means so much.

[00:33:11] And it's so near and dear to my heart.

[00:33:13] Yeah.

[00:33:14] But it's like, you know, I see it and I'm like,

[00:33:17] yeah, it happens.

[00:33:19] But I'm not going to like, tell her that I want to peel my skin off.

[00:33:23] Yeah, exactly.

[00:33:25] It seems a little, you know, extreme, like, you know, have fallings,

[00:33:29] you have falling outs with people.

[00:33:30] Well, it was extreme, but I will say this, to their credit.

[00:33:35] I'm not, I'm not, I don't really want to call attention to the sex of the person or

[00:33:40] whoever they are, just to protect their anonymity, because I feel like,

[00:33:45] I feel like this was a moment of just extreme emotional potency that

[00:33:52] kind of instantly was regretted because I, I wrote them back.

[00:34:00] I'm going to have to edit that.

[00:34:03] That's okay.

[00:34:03] Wrote them back and so hard, the pronoun thing.

[00:34:08] Um, uh, wrote them back and said, you know what I said.

[00:34:13] And then, you know, they liked the comment, love the comment that I wrote back.

[00:34:20] And I, I am didn't decled at the comment, but instantly right after that,

[00:34:24] I had somebody say, and this to your point of like the time and space where we

[00:34:31] minded our business, it was a lot easier to mind our business.

[00:34:34] And particularly as professionals who find a lot of our ability to get work for

[00:34:41] ourself online, which is the current landscape, especially for the newer tattoo artists,

[00:34:47] you guys got to hustle on social media.

[00:34:49] It's rough.

[00:34:51] It's rough.

[00:34:52] And you have to, yeah, you have to put up so many walls and boundaries just within that

[00:34:59] landscape because it's, it's totally not, it's not, it's, it, they admit it.

[00:35:04] The designers admit that it's not designed for your better health and wellbeing.

[00:35:08] So you have to really regiment yourself with it.

[00:35:12] And I, I would love to hope that, uh, it's a, uh, it is the war that we fought of this,

[00:35:21] this, the book, the fourth turning and talks about, you know, phases of, um, free societies

[00:35:30] and America was very, uh, examined.

[00:35:33] And there, there is like a high and like a, and then this can like, you know,

[00:35:41] desolution, desecration, not desecration, not like a, a deconstruction phase.

[00:35:45] And it usually is a war.

[00:35:46] So ours, it's a hundred year cycles and you have like four seasons that kind of happen

[00:35:51] within that.

[00:35:52] And we're, we were in a ladder and like winter destruction phase.

[00:35:58] I'd like to think that the war that we were in was an information war and a war that was

[00:36:03] on a battlefield that we didn't even realize we were in.

[00:36:06] That was highly dangerous, was killing people left and right that we don't fully know the

[00:36:11] gravity of, but it was.

[00:36:13] Sure.

[00:36:14] And, um, I definitely don't disagree with that.

[00:36:17] Yeah.

[00:36:18] I'd like to think that that's it.

[00:36:20] And I feel like it's, yeah, it's more, it's definitely more that like, like information,

[00:36:25] but I feel like there's a lot of spiritual warfare.

[00:36:28] Yes.

[00:36:29] Yes.

[00:36:30] No, totally.

[00:36:30] It's like the wetico.

[00:36:32] Yes.

[00:36:32] Yes.

[00:36:33] Yeah.

[00:36:34] Yeah.

[00:36:34] For, for those who, who are unfamiliar with that term wetico, um, it's essentially a mind

[00:36:41] virus.

[00:36:41] Mm-hmm.

[00:36:43] Yeah.

[00:36:43] So feel free to go down that rabbit hole if you want to.

[00:36:47] A really good conversation actually on my way.

[00:36:50] This is a segue.

[00:36:51] It's not a segue.

[00:36:52] It's, it's in lieu of the whole thing.

[00:36:53] Um, uh, Jordan Peterson and Richard Dawkins, um, actually had a conversation where they were

[00:37:01] discussing.

[00:37:02] Yeah.

[00:37:02] And I was listening to it on the way to paradise and I finished it on my way back and it was

[00:37:08] really good.

[00:37:08] And it continued beyond that.

[00:37:10] Um, but it was a very good conversation.

[00:37:13] And it, it met in mind, at least to this point of where they pretty much agreed that they,

[00:37:23] they think differently.

[00:37:25] And Jordan was very conclusive.

[00:37:27] He's like, you do actually, we do think differently.

[00:37:30] What, what, how we perceive things is completely different.

[00:37:33] And, um, our value systems are based on that, all of it.

[00:37:38] And the main point, the main topic was an exploration that Dawkins had of this idea of a meme versus

[00:37:46] an archetype.

[00:37:47] And he equivocated a meme more to a mind virus.

[00:37:51] And, um, and so they started the conversation between meme versus archetype versus, you know,

[00:37:58] and it, you know, goes down that rabbit hole, hole and, you know, Dawkins, he's very

[00:38:03] fact.

[00:38:04] Oh yeah.

[00:38:05] Nigible truth, you know?

[00:38:07] And, um, it was very interesting, but yeah, on the, uh, getting back right after the comment

[00:38:14] was deleted that made me feel really shitty.

[00:38:19] Um, right after it was a comment that made me feel really good.

[00:38:22] As that effect.

[00:38:23] Oh yeah.

[00:38:24] No, that's good.

[00:38:25] Yeah.

[00:38:25] Yeah.

[00:38:26] Somebody saying that I had called them out a while ago for, for a whole other thing that

[00:38:31] said basically the same tune that you're hearing now.

[00:38:34] Like if you did this on friend me, I don't want to be your friend.

[00:38:37] And I, I called her out for this and very politely, I was like, listen, man, like there's so much

[00:38:45] to connect with other people and in this world, like really you're willing to like throw in

[00:38:50] the towel with a bunch of people that you would probably have a dozen things in common with,

[00:38:55] but this one thing, this is the thing really, it shouldn't be, it shouldn't be the thing.

[00:39:01] Not if you want to preach kindness and tolerance and love and all those things.

[00:39:06] And see, that's the thing that gets me is it's, I'm, I see it.

[00:39:11] I witnessed this from those who claim to have these, um, oh my goodness, these principles

[00:39:22] of inclusion and, you know, tolerance and love and all of this stuff.

[00:39:31] And I see them turn ugly so quickly.

[00:39:36] And it's really unfortunate.

[00:39:38] It's like, it's so weird with social media because it really just like amplifies everything

[00:39:48] beyond what you would see if we were just in day-to-day actions.

[00:39:52] It's, it's like, it, it, it, it gives people a false sense of security to really just like

[00:40:00] let it all hang out in ways in which you wouldn't have those conversations in person.

[00:40:07] No, like you, there's, there's always these really matter of fact, like very black and

[00:40:19] white stagnant statements that get thrown around and people forget that there's nuance

[00:40:25] and everything in life.

[00:40:27] And that if you're looking at something from this perspective, that's literally just one

[00:40:34] angle.

[00:40:35] If you're facing somebody, they're seeing it from a totally different perspective, but

[00:40:41] you could be talking about the same exact thing.

[00:40:44] It's like, if I were to draw a pentagram and I put it down on the ground, I had it facing

[00:40:51] me.

[00:40:52] You would see it upside down.

[00:40:54] Yeah.

[00:40:55] Or at least, yeah.

[00:40:57] Upside down to what you're seeing it.

[00:40:59] Yeah, exactly.

[00:41:00] Who's to say?

[00:41:02] I mean, I guess what side is upside down for a five pointed star?

[00:41:06] Yeah.

[00:41:07] When did we declare this?

[00:41:09] But it's like, it's just, so I feel like that's something that it, it's one of these

[00:41:16] things.

[00:41:16] It's a paradox with our current society is a lot of folks forget that we're often talking

[00:41:23] about the same things.

[00:41:24] We often want the same goals.

[00:41:27] We often want the same things.

[00:41:29] And instead of collaborating and setting aside our differences and working together in unity

[00:41:37] to tackle what the real issues are, we take it out on each other.

[00:41:44] We cancel each other.

[00:41:46] We make up falsehoods about each other.

[00:41:50] And it's, I mean, it's very populistic and sad.

[00:41:56] Well, I mean, I think it's very normal.

[00:42:00] I mean, normal ish, I guess.

[00:42:04] I mean, normal as in today's normal.

[00:42:07] I don't know.

[00:42:08] How normal is it?

[00:42:09] I think it's very normal.

[00:42:11] Like I said, I, the, the tools have changed.

[00:42:15] So, you know, human beings plus X tools, you know, you kind of got to troubleshoot it.

[00:42:22] You know, you, you, of course, anything you're going to run into it with the best intentions.

[00:42:26] Like how cool would it be to connect everybody together and just everybody gets to communicate

[00:42:31] and everybody gets to, you know, uh, make, have these discussions in a, in a gross scale,

[00:42:37] how awesome.

[00:42:38] And it is, but then it's also going to be everything that we are also.

[00:42:43] And, you know, I, I think that's how it gets out of the way, um, is that not enough people

[00:42:50] are willing to confront the, the truly, like you said, your, your shadow or your darkness

[00:42:56] or your own evil, your own capacity for those things.

[00:43:00] We all have that.

[00:43:02] Um, some of us have the privilege of never having to be pushed to a point of feeling it

[00:43:08] or, you know, being in a situation where, where it comes out, but it's there and it's

[00:43:15] there for us for a lot of reasons.

[00:43:17] You know, the world is a very brutal place.

[00:43:20] Um, there, there is a lot of things that you have to turn to that if, you know, you're

[00:43:25] in, in states of survival, you'd have to do, and you'd probably get a pass, uh, for doing

[00:43:32] it.

[00:43:33] Um, you know, I, I would never begrudge somebody who survived the, uh, plane crash where they

[00:43:40] had to cannibalize the, the, the fallen people in order to survive.

[00:43:44] That's, I could never do that.

[00:43:47] Um, yeah.

[00:43:48] And then it's almost like part of that would be, they would start blaming them for being

[00:43:53] the bad guy, you know?

[00:43:55] And it's like, no, you're, you're in a life or death situation sometimes.

[00:43:59] Yeah.

[00:43:59] Or, I mean, maybe not even physically life or death, but it's when, when, when issues

[00:44:08] come up that literally question your entire value system and you act on your values, but

[00:44:17] it's not in agreement with someone else.

[00:44:20] It doesn't mean that you can chastise that person.

[00:44:22] Mm-hmm.

[00:44:24] It doesn't make you better than anybody else.

[00:44:26] No, no.

[00:44:27] And I think that's, that's really, I think that's really what, um, was explored for a

[00:44:33] while.

[00:44:34] There was a shift in, um, power structures, uh, that happened via the internet.

[00:44:39] Uh, there was, uh, a shift in a lot of things, how we communicate.

[00:44:43] We had to adjust to this.

[00:44:46] Very quickly at that.

[00:44:47] Yeah.

[00:44:56] Like it just launched, not even like about a year ago.

[00:44:59] And I'm like, wait now, how, how fast this is like even more rapid development than the

[00:45:08] internet was like exponentially.

[00:45:15] Yeah.

[00:45:16] And I'm like, shit, how am I going to keep up?

[00:45:20] Well, I mean, I think you make a decision.

[00:45:25] It's either you keep up or you utilize it for something.

[00:45:29] I don't know if you can keep up.

[00:45:31] Um, cause I don't think any of us can keep up.

[00:45:33] AI is artificial, you know, like it's a, it's something that's an accelerant tool.

[00:45:39] So you either make it work for you or you don't, you just don't even try, you know,

[00:45:43] you go the opposite way and you're like, no, I'm going to be like a great old master and

[00:45:47] I'm going to mix my own pigments and shit, you know?

[00:45:50] Um, and which both have intrinsic value in those kind of atmospheres, you know, like they

[00:45:56] both would hold a certain space.

[00:45:59] Uh, you just gotta, you know, you gotta, you gotta know, you gotta know what you're willing

[00:46:07] to support and why.

[00:46:09] Um, and that, that it just goes down to the value systems, you know?

[00:46:12] Absolutely.

[00:46:13] I love art because it, it helps me answer questions.

[00:46:17] It helps me find where I, where I land on certain things.

[00:46:20] What's very, very integral to me, what I like, what I see, what I can, what I can give to the

[00:46:27] world, what I can create.

[00:46:28] Um, you know, I would imagine I'm not a mom, but I would imagine that's what being a mom

[00:46:33] is like on some levels, you know, the beauty and this experience of seeing what you've created

[00:46:38] and helping it grow in the world and nurturing it and guiding it and all that stuff.

[00:46:44] And, you know, all of those things.

[00:46:47] That's why I like art.

[00:46:47] It's a, it's a participation in something that's a grand creation.

[00:46:51] Oh, absolutely.

[00:46:53] And what I really think is super beautiful about the whole artistic process too, is it at least

[00:47:00] like, I mean, I'm sure it's, it happens with everyone else too.

[00:47:03] It quiets my mind the fuck down.

[00:47:06] Mm-hmm.

[00:47:08] It is the deepest form of meditation I have ever fucking done.

[00:47:12] Yes.

[00:47:13] Yeah.

[00:47:14] Yeah.

[00:47:14] Like I can sit and meditate, but I gotta, I gotta work at it, you know, sitting down and

[00:47:23] sleep.

[00:47:27] Those extra, you're just extra deep into those alpha brainwaves, I guess.

[00:47:32] Um, I don't know.

[00:47:34] I have no idea.

[00:47:35] Yeah.

[00:47:35] I can't, I can't, I mean, maybe it's just my brain, but like, I found that in the blind

[00:47:41] when I was sitting there the other day, we didn't, we didn't catch any deer, by the way,

[00:47:45] nothing, nothing turned out.

[00:47:46] Um, yeah.

[00:47:46] Rico popped into my live last night and I asked him about it.

[00:47:50] Okay.

[00:47:50] Good.

[00:47:51] I was asleep.

[00:47:52] I have fallen asleep because it's great.

[00:47:54] The entire time that we were out there, I was like, I'm cold, but I'm so relaxed.

[00:48:00] Like the perfect soundtrack for like.

[00:48:05] And I was doing this practice, like, because I had to stay silent and still, I was trying

[00:48:12] to see how many little micro movements I could make to a stay awake and stay present

[00:48:19] with my body, but also be stay warm.

[00:48:23] Like how much could I move to create friction without creating sound and movement, like gross

[00:48:31] movement.

[00:48:32] And that was interesting, but it was putting me asleep.

[00:48:36] Fascinating.

[00:48:37] I was very, like, I was like, I'm going to fall out here.

[00:48:42] Rico then shared that he has taken many a nap in his blind.

[00:48:45] I said, how could you call that hunting?

[00:48:46] That's not hunting.

[00:48:47] That's napping.

[00:48:48] That's yeah.

[00:48:49] That's just sleeping in the woods.

[00:48:51] That's just sleeping in the woods.

[00:48:54] It would have been dashed really quickly because I jerk.

[00:48:57] Yeah.

[00:48:57] And I don't have the like muscle buffer of my traps to like, he can just fall asleep like

[00:49:02] this because his muscles will just hold up his neck and his head, but mine won't do that.

[00:49:08] You know, it gets violent.

[00:49:10] Yeah.

[00:49:11] Oh yeah.

[00:49:14] But no, I can't meditate.

[00:49:17] Art is my meditation for sure.

[00:49:19] Yeah, no.

[00:49:19] And that's beautiful thing.

[00:49:20] Cause, uh, what I was, what I was going to be getting at with that too, is that, um,

[00:49:24] essentially with the artistic process, the way that I see it and the way that I've recognized

[00:49:29] it is that it really is like, it gets us out of our head so much that we are able to actually

[00:49:38] channel from the divine.

[00:49:39] And so what we do create is something that is bigger than us.

[00:49:44] Oh, for sure.

[00:49:45] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:49:47] Absolutely.

[00:49:48] Whatever comes out is meant for someone to analyze in whichever way they, they interpret

[00:49:54] it or for somebody to, you know, take interest in or not take interest in.

[00:49:59] And it's, it's just another way that God can work through us.

[00:50:04] Mm hmm.

[00:50:05] Yeah.

[00:50:06] And I feel like as artists, we have such a beautiful and direct connection to source

[00:50:15] that a lot, a lot of people tend to take, you know, they take for granted.

[00:50:19] Yeah.

[00:50:20] But I think that's a, that's a calling in itself.

[00:50:23] That's why.

[00:50:24] This is true.

[00:50:24] Yeah.

[00:50:25] Yeah.

[00:50:25] It's, it's up for us to give it to people.

[00:50:27] That's true.

[00:50:28] Help them get there, show them how it can happen, that they're not removed from it.

[00:50:33] But I don't like about things that have happened currently within tattooing is when I meet the

[00:50:37] person that has gotten some tattoos by people and they're just, um, so supplicant to me,

[00:50:45] like to the point of like, I don't know, I don't know.

[00:50:47] I'm like, you don't know.

[00:50:49] Like, you don't know what you want.

[00:50:50] Well, I don't do art.

[00:50:51] I'm like, I know I do art.

[00:50:53] You, of course, I feel like I'm not asking you to do art.

[00:50:57] It takes two to tango.

[00:50:58] I, what I am asking you is what you like and what you, what you want.

[00:51:02] And if you don't have the words for it, that's different than saying that you don't know,

[00:51:06] or that, you know, you don't have the capacity to break this down for me.

[00:51:11] Show me what you like, you know, like we, you can show me what you like.

[00:51:14] Right.

[00:51:15] And, um, you know, that, but I want you in this, you know, I don't want to just stick

[00:51:21] something on you that I created, you know, like I, I, it feels it, it's great when that

[00:51:28] happens.

[00:51:29] Um, but I, for me, it's, uh, the thing itself has become a whole other thing.

[00:51:38] Like, I don't even think it's mine anymore.

[00:51:40] Once it's out of me, it's like you said, it's something that's beyond me.

[00:51:44] It's a divine thing.

[00:51:46] It's, it's, it's like, it's almost like we're, we're acting as mediums for these people.

[00:51:51] Like it is a sense of mediumship.

[00:51:54] We are literally trying to get messages through for other people based on what they are trying

[00:52:03] to channel through, but they cannot.

[00:52:05] Or that they just don't think they can.

[00:52:07] I mean, I think that I've opened up for a lot of people that they can participate far more

[00:52:11] than they thought.

[00:52:12] Oh, totally.

[00:52:13] A lot of tattoo artists shut that shit down.

[00:52:15] They're like, I don't want to hear from you, your friends, your husband, fuck your husband,

[00:52:21] leave your husband.

[00:52:23] If he doesn't like your tattoo, screw him.

[00:52:26] Like I have heard the most heinous shit on, on message boards for, or, you know, groups

[00:52:32] of tattooing.

[00:52:33] Like, I don't want to hear, I don't want to hear, I don't want to care.

[00:52:36] Sit down, shut up and let me do me.

[00:52:38] And I'm like, whoa, see, that's a problem.

[00:52:41] That is an arrogant fucking problem.

[00:52:45] Those are the kinds of people that don't fucking, they're not worthy of this sacred craft.

[00:52:51] I mean, look, I just think that.

[00:52:56] I'm like, if you're going to be that fucking arrogant, like, what are you even doing?

[00:53:02] Why don't you just sit at home and do art if you don't want to fucking work with people?

[00:53:07] I don't know if it's a worthiness of so much of just like, dude, you got to know your crowd.

[00:53:11] Like the second somebody wants, they're giving you signs about what they expect from this.

[00:53:18] And it's important for you as a person to not, to not do anything more than to be honest

[00:53:25] about how you work and just look at them and say, listen, this is how I work.

[00:53:30] This is how I do what I do.

[00:53:32] If this isn't comfortable for you, maybe we need to disconnect.

[00:53:38] But, you know, there's, there's definitely there's, there's a difference between

[00:53:46] setting expectations and the process of how we can best perform and achieve the best possible

[00:53:54] results for people.

[00:53:57] There's a difference between that and being fucking arrogant.

[00:54:00] Yeah.

[00:54:01] Well, I think if you're not willing to, and this just came to my mind, you know, I know

[00:54:07] that the safe space, as we talked about earlier, that's created in these, you know, tattoo groups

[00:54:13] is one of those in cellular things where you just get all of the unfettered.

[00:54:18] You know, thoughts that they probably don't enact actually to their clients, but they share

[00:54:23] amongst themselves.

[00:54:25] And I just, that makes me even sadder because then I'm like, oh, wow, man.

[00:54:32] Like, so you're, you're shoving all this shit down on top of, you know, that's, that's just

[00:54:40] a sign that they're not properly advocating their boundaries and their work process or that

[00:54:46] they are there.

[00:54:46] There's potentially a disconnect to their why and how to show up in a loving,

[00:54:53] a loving container.

[00:54:54] Yeah, I know.

[00:54:55] I mean, for me, it's like, I mean, I have no idea what you're referencing.

[00:55:00] So it's like, no, like, it's just, if you're convinced that this is normal and that you

[00:55:07] are in the correct, then why go to a message group, you know, like, and well, they're looking

[00:55:14] for validation.

[00:55:14] They're looking for that.

[00:55:16] Oh, it's not just me.

[00:55:19] Other people do this too.

[00:55:21] You know, do we get frustrated?

[00:55:24] Yes.

[00:55:24] Like any, any business is going to frustrate the hell out of you.

[00:55:28] There's going to be lots of frustration.

[00:55:29] Of course.

[00:55:30] How do we manage it?

[00:55:31] Working with people.

[00:55:32] Yeah.

[00:55:33] But I don't like the whole, like, let's, let's turn on the client.

[00:55:36] Let's let's.

[00:55:37] No, no, no.

[00:55:38] Vilify other people.

[00:55:40] No, no, absolutely.

[00:55:41] I agree wholeheartedly.

[00:55:43] Um, it's like, no, instead of it, it just comes down to having patience and a truly

[00:55:54] caring, like way of going about it.

[00:55:59] Because I 100% feel like there's always a way to show up with whoever this client is,

[00:56:12] no matter what their grievances are, no matter how difficult they are.

[00:56:15] If you just simply take the time to talk to them as a fucking person, meet them where they're

[00:56:21] at, educate them, like care enough to give them the ability to make informed consent about

[00:56:27] the decision that they're making for their body.

[00:56:32] It's really not that hard.

[00:56:34] Most people just need to explain to them.

[00:56:36] And it's like, if you, if, yeah, it can get tiring doing that over and over and over again

[00:56:43] for each and every single Kelsey and Karen that walks in.

[00:56:47] I get it.

[00:56:48] I mean, but it's like.

[00:56:50] How tiring is it though?

[00:56:52] It's not because.

[00:56:53] No, no.

[00:56:53] I was, I was just going to say like the flip side of it is, is the paradigm where none of

[00:56:59] that happened, where people sat in the chair, no questions asked, got tattooed by whoever

[00:57:04] was closest.

[00:57:05] And then you, you meet them later.

[00:57:07] At least I did during the Renaissance of tattooing where we were integrating art and you know,

[00:57:13] the old school ways.

[00:57:14] And you hear from these people who are covered in tattoos.

[00:57:17] And they're like, dude, I don't know if I have to get F off written on my fucking forehead,

[00:57:22] but I didn't get all these tattoos.

[00:57:24] Cause I wanted to talk to people.

[00:57:26] I got a tattoos to look scary, to scare people away from me.

[00:57:30] If I knew that people were going to be running up to me and grabbing me to look at my arms

[00:57:35] and shit, I would have never, ever done this like ever.

[00:57:40] And that's a good point.

[00:57:42] And so like, you know, like you're, you're damned if you don't.

[00:57:47] Oh, I just cut out.

[00:57:49] No, that's okay.

[00:57:50] To deal with Karen's one way or the other.

[00:57:52] Cause they exist.

[00:57:53] That's just life.

[00:57:54] Right?

[00:57:54] Yeah.

[00:57:55] But you know, it's, I've learned cause I'm currently, so I'm in what you would call a

[00:58:02] street shop right now.

[00:58:04] Yeah.

[00:58:04] Let's talk about that.

[00:58:05] Yeah.

[00:58:06] And it's fucking wild sometimes, but it's cool because I'm in fucking Sedona.

[00:58:11] Wow.

[00:58:12] I'm just like saying fuck a million times.

[00:58:14] Um, so Sedona of me to say fuck a million times.

[00:58:20] I've been trying to, but I'm, I have to, I'll have to get there.

[00:58:24] Uh, I'm not ready to let go.

[00:58:27] I know.

[00:58:27] I know.

[00:58:28] No, no, no, no.

[00:58:29] I like, it's just words of passion.

[00:58:32] That's it.

[00:58:33] It's words of passion.

[00:58:35] I full, I fully believe that if you don't say a word because you're afraid that it's

[00:58:39] a bad word, you're blocking your throat chakra.

[00:58:45] Yeah.

[00:58:45] You don't want to be spiritual.

[00:58:47] You do not want to cause cancer.

[00:58:51] No, definitely not.

[00:58:54] Oh my goodness.

[00:58:55] I don't want to do, don't want to overspice your food.

[00:58:59] I gotcha.

[00:59:00] Oh yeah.

[00:59:01] My goodness.

[00:59:02] God.

[00:59:03] So yeah.

[00:59:04] Like just being in the street shop, like it literally just takes the art of being present

[00:59:11] to treat every single person who walks in as if they're the only client you'll ever have.

[00:59:18] Yeah.

[00:59:19] That's it.

[00:59:20] It is truly a practice in presence.

[00:59:25] And I'm learning that and I'm appreciative of that.

[00:59:29] And I'm very grateful for that because it's, it's really helping me stay present with people.

[00:59:34] It's helping keeping me from actually like going down those like arrogant rabbit holes

[00:59:41] that we can like get ourselves in a loop with.

[00:59:43] Right.

[00:59:44] Um, and I'm just, I'm just trying to stand in such a place of gratitude that I'm here

[00:59:53] in this beautiful place.

[00:59:55] I get to talk to people who are coming out here for various reasons.

[01:00:00] They're in different stages of their journey.

[01:00:03] They're here because they're looking for something from the sacred land and they just want to

[01:00:10] have a good time and get some cool tattoos real quick.

[01:00:13] Like not every tattoo is a masterpiece, but that is also a nice fun challenge of making it

[01:00:19] as much of a masterpiece as you can.

[01:00:21] Mm hmm.

[01:00:22] And it's actually making me feel more comfortable with taking the lead and making those better

[01:00:31] tattoos than what they first came in looking for.

[01:00:33] Oh yeah.

[01:00:34] And it's like this, it's like this positive feedback loop.

[01:00:38] Mm hmm.

[01:00:39] Like you show up with love and presence.

[01:00:41] You meet them where they're at.

[01:00:43] You have the conversation.

[01:00:45] You ask the extra questions instead of just, oh, this guy just wants a prickly pear again.

[01:00:50] Oh my God, fuck this.

[01:00:51] Like, how can I make this prickly pear tattoo different and better than the last one I did?

[01:01:01] Right.

[01:01:02] How can I show up for this person?

[01:01:06] Okay.

[01:01:07] Diary listeners.

[01:01:08] Big thank you to you, Nicole.

[01:01:10] Thank you for the grace of yesterday, uh, for giving me for my late Christmas wish.

[01:01:16] Um, all of it, forgetting, uh, not shouting you out.

[01:01:22] Uh, I am, I am glad that I took the, well, a couple of things that, that you, um, mentioned

[01:01:29] it and reiterated it, but that I took the initiative to do some preliminary shout outs to your coloring

[01:01:36] book that you have now on Amazon.

[01:01:38] It's really dope.

[01:01:39] Uh, along with this, uh, the post of the podcast, I will, um, put again in the stories, a link

[01:01:46] for Amazon.

[01:01:47] So that if people want to buy your coloring book, they can, they can go right to it.

[01:01:51] It is a, uh, a working meditation coloring session where, uh, you know, you pick a mandala and,

[01:02:00] you know, Nicole will, will walk you through certain, certain meditation, uh, principles as

[01:02:08] you're, as you're digesting it and coloring it.

[01:02:12] It's, it's, it's really neat premise.

[01:02:13] And I like, I like the, uh, the effort to keep people present as this, this diary entry would,

[01:02:22] uh, would want.

[01:02:26] It is the happiest place to be.

[01:02:28] You can't do nothing about the past.

[01:02:30] The future is unknown.

[01:02:30] So the present is always the happiest and it's a gift.

[01:02:35] So enjoy it.

[01:02:36] Um, you can find Nicole DeRoy at Nicole DeRoy tattoos on IG, and she is working at tattoo

[01:02:46] Sedona.

[01:02:46] You can find both of those, uh, on IG.

[01:02:50] So Nicole, as you'd spell the name, and I see C O L E.

[01:02:57] And then her last name DeRoy D E R O Y tattoos T A T T O O S.

[01:03:05] And, uh, tattoo Sedona.

[01:03:08] Again, it's T A T T O O S E D O N A.

[01:03:14] And you can follow both of them.

[01:03:16] Uh, I have heard that Sedona is an incredible place.

[01:03:20] My mom has gone there.

[01:03:21] She said there's definitely something in that area that is different.

[01:03:25] The energy, something, something.

[01:03:27] She said it was magical.

[01:03:28] So, uh, I'm sure Nicole is just being flooded with a whole bunch of awesomeness there.

[01:03:33] Uh, she loves her new street shop.

[01:03:36] It allows her for, to stay present.

[01:03:39] Um, and yeah, diary listeners have a kick-ass week.

[01:03:43] Make it a good one.

[01:03:45] Powerful.

[01:03:46] God bless you all for your time.

[01:03:48] You're listening.

[01:03:49] My hope is, is that this was, uh, this is nice and entertaining after, after the holiday.

[01:03:55] Um, we got more to come.

[01:03:58] New year's coming.

[01:03:59] So strap in and, uh, we'll have, we'll have more with Nicole next week.

[01:04:04] So it's, it's not even over.

[01:04:06] You can, you can keep enjoying.

[01:04:09] And I can keep delaying the, uh, the rebrand that I want so badly for this podcast that I,

[01:04:18] I still don't know yet, but it's, it's there.

[01:04:20] It's something I want.

[01:04:22] I want a lot of things, but I'm sure I'm not alone.

[01:04:25] And that's why I love all of you.

[01:04:27] God bless and great week.

[01:04:33] Thanks for listening.

[01:04:34] You can find the apprenticeship diaries on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.

[01:04:38] Our IG is the underscore apprenticeship underscore diaries.

[01:04:42] If you would like to offer constructive criticism or an interview, drop us an email at

[01:04:47] theapprenticeshipdiaries at gmail.com.

[01:04:49] We look forward to hearing from our listeners.