Diary Entry 252. "Rush to James" (1:? with Ken Madden)

[00:00:00] Go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. Ken had a little bit of a blip in his audio when he first came on. Hello, Diary listeners. I'm here today. Well, this is a prerecorded show, but we prerecorded Ken Madden and I a podcast.

[00:00:23] And I'm calling this first piece, which I don't know how many pieces of this diary entry there will be. But I'm calling the first piece of this Rush to James and you'll find out why it's pretty cool. But essentially, just to give you a little bit of a preamble of what you're about to listen to,

[00:00:50] my friend reached out to me and he's been on the podcast before. He's a fantastic artist and he kind of got hit to the new formula of the podcast where I was attempting to share how God moves in my life. And he wanted he wanted to kind of jump on that and share how God moves in his. So this is my friend, Ken Madden, a fantastic artist.

[00:01:19] This is his. His experience initially and his continued practice kind of talked about long form. And just, you know, mutual catch up with me. So I hope you all enjoy. Hey, go, go, go. Go, go, go. Politics and the church, because, you know, I'm sure we'll get into this, but, you know,

[00:01:46] I think real churches and I do say real churches, they show up to fight for their autonomy and to fight for their their flocks. And they're not going to let civil government come in the way of what is their jurisdiction. So they they show up for the people that they service, you know? Yeah. No, it's true. And we lived on a road that had a whole bunch of big churches on it.

[00:02:13] And all of the big ones I went to, no one had talked to me when I went to check it out. And this one, it was like everyone there was super cool. They're like, hey, can we help you something? What's going on? And I'm like, I don't know. I think I need this, but I don't know what this is. And they're like, we got one. We got one. Let's get them. Welcome to the Apprenticeship Diaries where raw meets refined. Let's be real. We're still working on the fun. What it took, what it takes and the stories that are made.

[00:02:42] Join us as we learn from professionals about how their stories begin. So I looked at your, um, I watched both the video and, um, um, your pamphlet on coming home with the, uh, project, uh, prodigal son. Oh, cool. It's very cool. It was very cool. I can hear you. Can you hear me? Is there no echo? No echo. Perfect.

[00:03:12] That's great. I've got options. That's awesome. Let me try to. Before we get going here, just let me make sure I can share what I want to share. Yeah. So I'm going to hit my share mode here. And this is what I want to share. If I go to, there we go. If I want to share this. So, so I can go through.

[00:03:44] So I would sit there every, to just give you the background of how I did these. This is literally the sermon notes that they hand you when you walk in the door. Right. So in that one that I sent you, I went through and, and Photoshopped out all of the sermon notes that are underneath of everything. So all of these drawings were done on top of the actual sermon notes from that day. Did you do this in school too? No. Well, yeah. Like, but I did it in school instead of like paying attention. Yeah.

[00:04:14] I was actually paying attention here. And this was, I never had any preconceptions. So this was all purely done by the grace of God. I mean, purely each one. And then some of them are awesome. Some of them aren't so great, but like, this is the speck in your eye and the plank. Yes. You know, and Fisher of men. Yeah. That's awesome. I mean, and so this would, there's David and Goliath. Uh huh. That's awesome.

[00:04:45] And so I would sit there and I'd be listening to the sermon and usually I wouldn't even, you know, you're there for what an hour. There's some songs, some tra la la and you get up and everyone's good and the thing goes around maybe. And then these were all done in about 15 to 20 minutes. Wow. So the, and I know you will understand that because you're a person that sketches and you can knock out if you're focused, 15, 20 minutes gets you a piece of art. Yes.

[00:05:11] And, um, you know, with, this was like projecting, you know, just spreading the word across, you know, like a prism. Right. And each one of these has their own meeting, you know, uh, the fog ahead. And whenever you see the squiggly lines like that, like I described in that one, in that pamphlet, that's grace. So those kinds of flowing lines are grace. Yeah. I did notice that that was your, uh, your symbol for grace. Yeah.

[00:05:40] This was a cool, some of them, some of them were just plain awesome. This was one of the awesome ones. Like take the leap, man, just dive into faith. You don't have really any other choice. That's a great one. I love the perspective. Yeah. The perspective in that one came out pretty cool. So here's here. I'm going to unshare this here. I've also got the, uh, the Christian shirt on today. I love that shirt too. Yes. It's Betty page. Ah, it's perfect.

[00:06:08] That's this life to be a, to, to, she found God. She found God. And I like the black and white too, with a hint of gold. You know, all you have to do is smell like frankincense and myrrh and you're ready. I go, go, go. All right. Now can I hear you Madden? Now I've got to change my settings. God damn it. You know what? I don't need this.

[00:06:37] The hell with it. I can hear you just fine. If you can hear me and we're not echoing. This works for me. Yeah, I can hear you. I look so much prettier without those. Is the levels okay? I think. All right. I'm not booming out or anything. No, I can go. I can do all ASMR too. Yeah, you can. You know what my favorite sound is? Small animals eating. I don't know what it is. Animals eating? Small animals eating, like rodents eating.

[00:07:07] And I don't know. It's something about it. Or like cats like crunching on like food. I love, I love that sound. Watching a cat eat is pretty good. It's great. I don't know what it is. It's so innocent. And so I hate hearing people eat. Oh, it's the worst thing. I've been running Stimpy cups. Running Stimpy cups. That's awesome. Long time, man. I remember when my dad saw me watching this.

[00:07:35] He's like, what is this? And I was like, it's running Stimpy. He was like, he'd sit down. And after a while, he was like, this is not a kid's program. And I was like, you know, he's like, this is disgusting. How? All right. So Ren Stimpy, I was already out of college when that came out. So for me, that was the best thing in the world. It was the funniest. Yeah. I fell in between the ages of Beavis and Butthead. I couldn't, I never thought they were funny.

[00:08:05] No, I mean, they're all right. I didn't like the style of art. Do you know that? No, I didn't either. The style of cartoon. In King of the Hill, they made it work. But in Beavis and Butthead, it does it because it's the same thing. But Beavis and Butthead was for people who I, I, I was too much of a goody two shoes for Beavis and Butthead for me. And, and they were very about the music too. They were really kind of metal heads. Like, yeah. And I wasn't a metal head. No, me neither.

[00:08:34] That might've been part of it too. Yeah. So I wasn't, I mean, later I kind of like, later I thought about it that I, I mean, I can appreciate it in nostalgia, but yeah. I liked some of the things that came out of Beavis and Butthead, like Boomhauer and the King of the Hill. Yeah. There was some funny stuff that came from it. Yeah. I actually watch it now and I laugh my ass off. Yeah. But back then I didn't like it, but it's the same thing. Nirvana. I couldn't stand that band when it came out.

[00:09:05] I just, I'm like, there was just, all right. So you had the hair band thing going on, which I wasn't a huge fan of, but I like horns, you know, and Tower of Power and Earth, Wind and Fire and Blood, Sweat and Tears and that are really good stuff. Yeah. And that stuff was just starting to rear its head. You know, you had, remember the rhythmics, Would You Lie to Me? Yes. The horn sections. It was awesome. And, you know, Katrina and the waves and you had all this like horn music coming out.

[00:09:32] And then all of a sudden grunge came and just took over the world. And I'm like, oh, I just don't like it. No, no. I don't like it. I, now I look at Nirvana's first album. Like that was freaking brilliant. Well, I think they were good, but then, then Courtney Love like got in and then she was not good. I'm sorry. I was not in garbage. She's grunge Yoko. Yeah, she was. She was grunge Yoko. She was totally.

[00:09:57] But then you had Stone Temple Pilots and the whole movement came out and Pearl Jam. I wasn't a Pearl Jam fan again back then. I didn't dislike him. I've just, it was one of those things that's like, oh, this song is on the radio again. I used to resent people who would, cause I like Creed and they used to always say they're just Pearl Jam. And I'm like, no, they're not. Not at all. They're better. Yeah. They're better. Like cancel culture really started around like Creed.

[00:10:24] They were like, ew, Scott Stapp and he's this and he's that. And I'm like, no, I don't, I don't care. I was like, these guys are actually playing. Yeah. They were good. They were all really, the drummer was awesome. And that was my first concert was a Creed concert. Really? Yeah. I saw, I saw Jimmy's chicken shack and, um, who else?

[00:10:52] Uh, it was a black singer with dreads. I remember. And he did like a harder meth, like a harder rock. Um, no, cool. It was really good. I forgot. I wish I remembered his name. They were openers and then Creed. It was so good. When was that? Oh God. Um, I think it was, I think it was when I was still in high school.

[00:11:21] I want to say like my last year of high school, like 1990s, maybe early two thousands, maybe. Wow. When'd you graduate? 1999. Oh, I forget that I'm old. Sometimes. Ken, I just tattooed a kid that wasn't born when I graduated high school. Isn't that crazy? It's a wild. It's wild.

[00:11:46] Well, I start when we started, when we started our company zero, you know, the guy started with, I mean, I was 40, this was 10 years ago. So I was 46 and he was 22. So it was like, Hmm. Yeah. I was already out of high. I was in college when you were born and now you're my boss. This is, this is weird. It's very weird. It's very weird. Yeah. I mean, I dig it. Um, you know, I think it's fun. It's really fun. Your, your first concert.

[00:12:17] My first concert was rush in 19. Oh, that's a good one. It would have been 1980. It was 1984. It must've been the great, great center. It might've been 82. And I remember not going equal. Cause I was going to a concert, so I didn't want to be all fucked up. I didn't want to be drunk or high or nothing. So it started the way I go to concerts. So like I went and saw, I saw rush. I don't know how many times completely sober, Jimmy page, um, the who, all these, all these awesome bands, totally sober.

[00:12:46] So I can remember it. And I remember everything. And it's like, Oh, I'm so glad I did that. That is so good. In Brian Setzer. When, when Brian sets her orchestra in 95 came out with the big band thing, he was just going around in small clubs. So I saw him at first Avenue in Minneapolis, which is where they filmed purple rain. Oh, wow. In, and Southern culture on the skids was the opening band. Wow. What a show that was. I was like, it's one of those, you know, you get those ones with the songs over you. You don't even want to leave.

[00:13:14] You're like, maybe they'll just keep playing. Unbelievable. But yeah, it was, I've, I, you know, I've, I've, I don't know if I've really, I don't want to say it and not mean it. The Creek concert was really good. Um, I'm not a big live music person. I, cause I, I was Baltimore's a dirty scene, like, like their music venues.

[00:13:44] And maybe I just didn't go to the right ones, but it was very gritty and grimy and there's way too small for the acoustics. Like they were loud and just. Baltimore seems to me, and honestly, I haven't been there. So this is completely just making shit up out of my ass. But it seems to me like musically is the city that's in between too many other cities that they just never got. Track. Like I'm, I'm from Boston originally, you know, Aerosmith, the cars till Tuesday.

[00:14:14] Yeah. You know, the, the Bengals for crying out loud, you know, Billy Squire. Yeah. I mean, it might be the, it might be the actual music that I showed up for that. Like my, I got dragged to stuff by friends. Oh yeah. It was just a scene, you know, like it was a scene that like, I don't know. It kind of was like the who, I don't know. It was just the music and a lot of great music came out of Baltimore.

[00:14:40] I just don't know if I'm social enough for that environment. Yeah, no, you gotta be. I mean, I played in a band for years too. So I got into that. Now I just, I never go watch music. I'm just like, I'm going to watch it on YouTube and my surround sound at my house. Yeah. Or I can hear it. Cause you know, I go to my, my niece-in-law.

[00:15:06] So it's my sis, my sister's husband's daughter was Miss Alaska in 2000. And she's a virtuoso violin player. And she ended up touring with Rush on the only time they brought a string quartet with our string. That is cool. And so I talked to her, I heard that and I'm like, are you touring with Rush? Did I hear this right? I'm like, you realize I'm like the biggest Rush geek ever. And she's like, oh yeah. Yeah. Do you want tickets? I'm like, um, yeah. We coming through Minneapolis? Yeah. We'll be there in September. Okay.

[00:15:35] So she got me full, full VOP, uh, VIP passes. I mean, we were, and I took, I took all the, Stacy and the two kids and I ruined them for concerts. The rest who went to the concert, we watched it. It was awesome. We went backstage, hung out with them afterwards. Um, uh, mostly just with the, I didn't even actually see the guys in Rush. It was mostly the, the, the string section. They were awesome. Wow. And Tucker was making duct tape wallets at the time. He's like eight years old, you know, cute little kid.

[00:16:05] Make, so he's making duct tape wallets for all the, all the guys that were the roadies thought it was the coolest thing in the world. Oh, I'm sure. And we ended up in the tour buses, hanging out in the tour buses. I mean, it was like. That's awesome. And one of the guys that was, uh, I can't remember a cello player or something, but he was a, he was a dwarf, a midget, small person, whatever there. And he was the, he was the brother of the guy that's in, uh, no, no, no. He was, he, he was short. He wasn't a dwarf, but his brother was, and it was the guy that was in game of Thrones.

[00:16:35] Oh, wow. The, um, they were like, they could have been twins. Wow. But this guy was, you know, he was probably, I don't know, five, six, five, seven. He wasn't like super tall, but he wasn't a dwarf. But yeah. So it's like, you know, and Logan was watching game of Thrones at the time. And I just, it's like. Oh, you ruined them. And then we went to tower of power. They played a small or not a small club, big club here, but nice, you know, it's small venue. I liked seeing bands in small venues. Right. Instead of the big stadiums. And.

[00:17:04] We sat. At the table, there was a, there was our table. And then there was a, a blank open table with nobody sitting there reserved. And then the stage. So we were, you know, awesome seats. And the singer. Like in between they do instrumentals or there'd be a big jam session parts tower of power. So they'll go on for like 20 minutes on a song. You know, he'd just come over and sit down there. And, um, while Tucker and me were noticing that no one sat there. So we were like, we'll just sit there. So he comes down and we're thinking we're going to get yelled at.

[00:17:33] And there's Tucker, you know, 11 years old, as cute as a button, little redheaded. And he starts talking to this guy and the guys are here, hold this mic. So he's like, hold the mic. He goes, Oh no, I hold it straight up. Don't do it. So he kept giving Tucker crap all night. And we just, we had a fun night. So when the night was over, it was all done. He comes down and he goes, Hey, come here. He goes, is it okay if he comes backstage? And I'm like, well, well. Can I? Yes. He can go.

[00:18:01] He goes back to, he's gone for like 20 minutes and you know, we're sitting there and it's me and Stace and Logan. And we're just like, what are they doing back there? Oh, we weren't worried. Cause it's, you know, these good guys. And he comes out, he's got a shirt. He's got like fricking plaques, the drumsticks from Derrick, David Garibaldi signed the set lists from the, and he's like, dad, look at all this stuff. That's awesome. And I'm like, that's pretty cool. So this is what they think concerts are like.

[00:18:30] And growing up, that's what I thought it was. Cause we'd always go backstage. Cause my dad was musician. I mean, big time musician. Right. Right. So we'd go see Count Basie and afterwards we go hang out with the band. You know, my brother sang the national anthem at the Celtics games. So I'd go sit behind Larry Bird and Danny age and Robert Parrish. I'm not a sports guy. So it was completely wasted experience on me, but we're sitting right behind him. You know, then afterwards you go to the locker room and hang out with all them. And, and I just thought that's the way it was.

[00:18:58] You know, we went and saw Mel Tor May and George Shearing play. Yeah. And some concert. And then afterwards, you know, my dad knows half the guys in the band. So we all went and hung out with them afterwards. That's awesome. You mean this isn't what normal people do? Oh, I didn't know that. Nope. Nope. Not at all. It's musicians. It's musicians privilege. Yes. Yes. Rico feels that sometimes. I mean, it's smaller because it's not as well known.

[00:19:25] Maybe it's picking up in, in knowledge as social media is getting around, but. Um, he'll have tattoo artists come into the, to the, um, pizzeria and they'll notice, uh, some of his work. Cause now he has visible tattoos. Yeah. And they'll start talking and he'll just talk about some of the tattoo artists that he's hung out with. Um, per, per my taking him wrong. Exactly. And they're like, what? You know who?

[00:19:54] And he's like, oh yeah, man. Like they're fun. We drank, we drank at the bar in Massachusetts. You know, they're, they're a great guy. Great guy. And they're like, what? Fame is a funny thing. It really is. Um, it, my dad told me when I was young, he's when, cause we'd meet well-known people quite a bit. And he's like, they're just folks. They're just people.

[00:20:24] Don't, don't envy them. Don't, don't, you know, dislike them. Just, they're just, just another person. If they're nice to you, be nice to them back. And I've always done that. So what I found is that usually, I mean, unless I'm fan, cause sometimes you just meet someone and your fangirl and it's just like, you just, you know, remember that, that time. And that was really cool. You know, if you just turned into that person, sometimes it happens, but normally I'm just. I want to have a car. Like I want to meet Jay Leno because I want to talk about cars.

[00:20:55] I don't give a shit about his career. You know, I want to talk about cars. Yeah. No, that makes sense. We'll probably meet him. One of these days. I think, I think you'll meet him then. Yeah. That'd be really cool. Him and Jerry Seinfeld. Cause he likes cars too. Well, all the, him and the, the, um, home improvement guy. Doesn't Paul Hollywood like cars too? From the great British bake off.

[00:21:25] Very. He does. I think he's really into cars. Yeah. A lot of people are. Cause cars are cool. They are cool. They're cool. My friend Jake, my friend Jake, um, you would, you guys would geek out together. He's less classic and more like hot rod him and Tucker. We get along, but he, uh, loves to drive fast, loves cars, loves fixing them up. He can draw them really well, but, uh, yeah, that's cool. And he's a tattoo artist too. He's fantastic. Um, I'm working with a guy right now.

[00:21:55] We were going to meet and do a class together. He he's a guy's it, but I don't know how old he is. I'm thinking he's late thirties. Cancer survivor. Apparently hasn't been able to work in a couple of years and he's just recently taking up drawing. So it started as someone just commenting on some of my stuff on Facebook because I put a lot up and process stuff. And, um, so he started sending me what he's doing and I'm looking at it and I'm like, okay,

[00:22:24] this is someone that literally just started drawing. You know, that it's, they have, it's beautiful in a way where it's just like, okay, I can look at this and go, I know if I teach you perspective, you're going to get this. Cause he's doing like three or four drawings a day and putting them out there on Facebook. I'm like, first of all, it takes a lot of balls. And I'm watching him get better and better with each one. He doesn't know why he's getting better. So I want to help him. I'm going to help him do that.

[00:22:51] I'm just, so I did a, I did a live today. I was working on this Lamborghini drawing I'm working on. And, uh, it was just, just didn't know it's shading basically, you know, he's asking questions and he's like, well, what, what, what do you use in there? What kind of pencil is that? What are those markers? What is, you know, to have, it's like when I started going to church, I had no preconceived notions of what church was. Cause I never went other than funerals and weddings.

[00:23:17] So I'm like, they were like, you have no baggage. I'm like, I don't know. Just what, what, what do we do here? You know, what's this all about? What's, what's it about? Any of you people here know where a guy could get a Bible? I didn't, where do you even buy one? They sell them somewhere. Is there a guy? You know, I mean, literally we would have handed it. We have like a million just waiting. They're like, they're like, we got you. We got you. It's fine.

[00:23:43] And, and I didn't, there was a whole chain of stores that were a Bible that there were a Christian chain of stores out here. I can't remember what they're called. The thing about a Bible though, and pro tip, always get, always get the, um, the book dividers so that you can label it because you want to be able to follow along. So that's the thing is like your first time with the Bible. You don't realize how quickly you need to flip through to like follow as the sermon's going.

[00:24:11] And the question, the question I had too, is like, all right, now I got this thing. There's old Testament, new Testament of which that meant nothing to me. I didn't know which was which. And I'm like, we're even starting here. And, um, and, uh, Most people recommend John. The pastor said, Luke, he says, start, start with the story of Luke. Cause that kind of explains the Christian thing pretty well. John would have been another good one. And he did mention that to you. But I think if you've. That was a good one for you.

[00:24:40] It was a little bit of your past. Yeah. It's a simple. Um, it really is a simple one, you know, in any moron like me can understand it. So I was like, okay, I read that. My favorite, my favorite is, is James. Yeah. The, the, the first like 20, you know, celebrate your trials. Yeah. And I, I use that all the time because I have to, cause I have a lot of trials. Yeah.

[00:25:08] I, um, I haven't gotten to James yet. I admit it. Um, but I might now, uh, that I, um, heard that that's your favorite. Mine's mine's Proverbs. I love Proverbs. Proverbs is awesome. I mean, how can you not like Proverbs? I don't know. But James, I mean, the first, the first chapter James is just, it just blew my mind of just. You know, everyone's been through some kind of crap. There's been a ton of people.

[00:25:37] I've been through a lot worse than I have. I've had a pretty good life, but it still went through a bunch of stuff. You know, I mean, there was a time where I wanted to end my life and this was, you know, as a kid, you know, high school age. And, uh, I think about that it's the celebrate your trials because through, through the celebration, basically, well, I'll say that through the celebration of your trials and tribulations, it builds perseverance and perseverance builds strength.

[00:26:01] Yeah, actually that was, um, that was quoted in a Bible study or not Bible study in our sermon today. It wasn't James. I don't believe, I don't believe he went to James. It was, uh, I'm not going to recall it because I didn't bring my Bible up, but I, I did highlight it.

[00:26:19] Um, but it was about having a thorn and realizing that the thorn, um, that is present is a gift, um, to, you know, basically, uh, make you change into what you, what you need to be and move. And that it's a blessing. It is. Yeah, it is. I mean, hell on earth, when you come out the other side of it is the greatest thing that you've ever done because now you've persevered something.

[00:26:47] Now, now you're, you're, you're, you're bigger, stronger, faster, better, um, wounded. Yes. But you know, there, there's wounding that that'll cripple a person as wounding. That's just a scar to remind you, Hey, you did something you you've accomplished something. Some, some, something bigger than us helps see you through. Yeah. Do you know, um, about Johnny Erickson Tata? Hmm, not, not super familiar. No.

[00:27:16] So you mentioned there's things that'll cripple you. So sure. Her, her story is that she at 19 jumped into the Chesapeake Bay and hit a rock and broke her neck, became an instant paraplegic. Oh, I think I know what you mean. Yeah. Yeah. She, she starred in her own movie, um, after her incident and after she had recovered called Johnny.

[00:27:41] Um, and, uh, she basically started painting with her teeth afterwards. Yes. I know the person you're talking about. Incredible paintings, all, um, faith-based, um, found God again, but she was suicidal before any of that. And, um, the movie is really beautifully done and you can tell that it's her playing herself because she had never acted before.

[00:28:04] So, you know, it's a little, it's a little rough in that, but when you realize that she's playing herself as a paraplegic, it's wild. You're like, what? Um, that's crazy. Yeah. What's the name of the movie? Uh, I believe it's, um, Johnny. Uh, what is it? Is it Johnny? I believe it's on prime. It's a, if you look up Johnny Erickson, you should be able to find, and it's Erickson spelt like ear, ear, Ick. I see. Oh, sure.

[00:28:32] Uh, E A R I K S O N. Erickson. One of them Greek Swedes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, she looks like that actually. Um, but she was a brilliant, brilliant athlete. My mom's, uh, sister and brother went to, cause she has twins in her family, but they went to high school with Johnny. No, no kidding. Yeah.

[00:28:58] It was very close to our family and my mom, when I was growing up, cause I was born with an underdeveloped hip. And, um, I had to be in a body cast, uh, for the first nine months of my life. And I just could never keep up with other kids physically like that. Like it, it's not as, I mean, obviously in comparison to Johnny, it was nothing. And that was my mom's point.

[00:29:20] Like she, she told me about it because of what, what she ended up doing afterwards, the fact that she could paint with her teeth afterwards. And that there's just, you, you don't, you don't limit yourself. You find the path and you keep pushing and, you know, you preserve, pursue your passion. And there's always, there's always a blessing in disguise, no matter what befalls you. Um, it's just a calling to rise and become more and figure out, uh, what kind of thing.

[00:29:50] And she also hosts a podcast. She doesn't actually talk on it. Um, but it's called Johnny and friends. And it's, um, it's all about ministry, particularly to disabled people. And they focus on that as a, as a thing. So it's really good. Um, but yeah, she's, she's incredible and she has an amazing voice, like incredible singing voice. And I think she's a two time cancer survivor herself on top of that. Right.

[00:30:18] Just incredible, incredible soul. Stories of people. I mean, it's, everyone, these stories incredible. Yeah. When you get, when you get talking to people, no matter what, and it never ceases to, I remember, I used to watch the biography, the show biography all the time. And then something would pop up and I'd be like, I don't give two shits about this person, you know? And I'm 38 seconds in and I'm riveted. I'm like, now I need to know. Now I need to know what, how, oh, I didn't know they did that. Oh, that was their name.

[00:30:48] Wow. They had to go through this. Wow. I, wow. I now have a lot more respect for them. Yeah. You know, the drummer for Def Leppard. Def Leppard. I can't stand that band. Never liked him. Never will. Can't stand him. Drummer lost his arm. The band just said, hey, we're going to hang out for a while, even though easily could have replaced the guy. He was a good drummer, but this does a lot of good drummers. You know, I would have done a good job back then, but they said, no, let's just see if he can do it.

[00:31:17] And he struggled through it and came back and they, you know, they were bigger than ever. The drummer with one arm. And I'm just sitting there watching this going, I can't stand your band, but my God, what a story. Right. You know? Right. I mean, that's why like, I'll be honest, you know, getting into the politics of things a little bit, getting a little saucy. I find it hard, very hard to have.

[00:31:46] Not not. I have compassion. But I, I'm not sorry for the federal employees that are losing their jobs right now. I'm not. I'm not. I have empathy for the people losing their jobs. I have compassion, but it's a job. It's a job. And if you really want to see how hard life can go, don't push it because it gets way worse. Way worse. Yeah. It can.

[00:32:16] Absolutely. It gets way worse. Don't push it. Be grateful that you have life left to make other decisions. And if I mean, so you spoke about people. I have serviced many government employees, military people, and all of that tattoo them, et cetera. And there is three things and I've had it confirmed.

[00:32:46] I've told this to them. There's three things that I just find about all of them. It's either fear, apathy or anger in regards to their jobs. Mm hmm. And I just don't understand fighting for that. For me, that's, that's fighting for the toxic thing that you are addicted to that you based your whole life around that you're just afraid of change. And I get that I have, like I said, I have compassion for all of that. But that's, that's let that's time to let go.

[00:33:15] That's something to let go of. The idea of jobs. So there you think about how many people absolutely hate what they do. And I've always been a person or if I get to the point where I hate what a job I'm doing, I leave, find something else. I just have been that person, but I'm, I don't mind taking a risk. That means giving up everything. I don't mind doing that. And because, yeah. And it's not because all of my risks have worked out.

[00:33:45] In fact, almost all of them haven't. Same. Except for a couple, but you only need one or two to work out to have it work. And so that's also the reason why you're the person who goes behind the backstage, because that is, that is a currency between people who mutually understand that, that, that passion, that, that fervor, that conviction. Because they just feel it in other people. It's genuine. You know, they're not faking.

[00:34:13] Yeah, there is that you can feel that aura in a person. It's, it's just like the, I call them the, the, the must be nicers. You know, in the, the people that I, I was broke as hell for many, many, many years, decades. And most of the people I was hanging around with, which is part of the reason I stayed broke for a long time, were the must be nicers. Yeah. Instead of looking at what someone that had more than you has, and I like, how did they get it?

[00:34:42] Is there, maybe I could learn something, maybe I could do something to, to, to lift my, they would just like, oh yeah, must be nice. Look at that guy's got Ferrari. Must be nice. He's got the, I'm like, and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. It is nice. Yes. How do we get one of those? Yes. You know, how do we do, and I look at, you know, I'm at the level of artists now. I mean, I'm 56 years old. I've been doing this for 40 years. I'm, I'm pretty good. And I'll just say, I'm going to blow my horn. I'm pretty good.

[00:35:12] You are. But I watch these people on Instagram, like, um, MJS painting. And, uh, there's another guy. Why? I can never think of anyone's name. Cause I didn't mention I was 56. Yeah. I forget names that happened at 54. But you're like me, I was reading your pamphlet. And, and one of the first things it says is like, I'm, I'm just a person that I need, I need repetition to get that kind of thing in debt down. But that's the reason why you drew on your, on your sermon notes.

[00:35:42] It's because I can remember that. If I wrote notes, I wouldn't remember. Yeah. And I'm the same way. I can't, I can't bank a name. I can bank your story. I can tell you, you know, you have a dog and three kids and you know that we can talk about this, but I can't. Yeah. I can tell you what, I can tell you, I can tell you what car you drove in 1997. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The one that the, the, the lighter didn't work and you had to wiggle the heater. Right. Like, Oh, this guy definitely talked to me. Yeah. That one time there was the scratch in that headlight. Yeah. But what was your name? Yeah.

[00:36:13] But I see the, anyway, I see these people, these other artists that are, that are, I look at and go, wow, I want to get there, you know? And, um, you're one of them. I look at, I look at some of the stuff you do. Well, cause you and I have, I would, I would say we're, we're, we're, we're equals in our, in our level of artwork, but we have different styles and the style that you have on some things that you do. I just can't do. I would say the same thing about you.

[00:36:42] And I'm like, and I'm like, this is so cool. I want to try that. So I'll go try it. And I'm like, wait, I can do it. Yeah. Not as good, but I can do it. But that, but that, that fires me up, you know? And when someone says to me, I've inspired them to do something that is like straight down hand of Jesus resting on my head and going nice work. You, you, you, you inspired someone else to be creative.

[00:37:07] Well, I can tell you your sermon notes really inspired me because I was looking at them as you're putting them up. And, um, I take copious notes all throughout Bible study, all throughout the sermon. And my Bible is completely highlighted, marked up. I put dates next to everything. It's like things streams of consciousness to come to my mind.

[00:37:32] And, um, we have a, we have, you know, a program for every day that we do a sermon, but I'm, I'm definitely going to, it's your church, but it's also, I'd, I'd like to show my pastor and the church your stuff. If you'd give me permission just to let him see how people can actually respond to the

[00:37:57] sermons and use whatever different ways that will help them ingratiate that the sermon better. And also the word better. And, you know, if it's note-taking, if it's little sketches, if it's doodles, if it's whatever, but I think that they would be really, really cool to have. But it was interesting as I did that because I, I w I would purposely kind of not, not sit by myself.

[00:38:23] I tried to stay about midway to the, between the, the, the front rows and the midway back. Cause I wanted to be up there. And you can usually, if you're up there, you can have a little bit of space between you. Cause I, when I started doing that and again, I just went to this church. I found it, I mean, literally found it in through politics. One of the people that I was doing activism with political activism with was a, was one

[00:38:50] of those Bible thumping, you know, real church people. And, but a sweet, sweet lady. I mean, absolutely just a sweetheart. And I asked her just, I'm like, so if I wanted to go to church or something, where would I, like, what should I do? What there's all these different ones. What's the difference? She's like, well, you should come to ours. She gave me a card. I'm like, all right, we'll see. And that was like on a Thursday. And so Saturday, me and my son, who is at the time, probably eight, no.

[00:39:21] Yeah. Probably eight years old. We went to, we just went down the road where all the churches were up in Andover, Minnesota. And it was a bunch of big churches. And we just went one by one. There was one that he was baptized in, but then it had changed denominations and changed hands. So all the people that we knew there, and I never gone to church. It's just, that's where you get a kid baptized. And then there's another big one that was like a, wasn't a Catholic church, but it was a, it was a, it was a big church. And I went in there on a Saturday.

[00:39:50] It was busy. There was all kinds of, there must've been something going on that day. And I was just looking for anybody to talk to about. So what do. What's going on? I couldn't get a single person to talk to me. Not one. And even I stopped and asked, excuse me, I'm, I'm new here. And so, Oh, well, we're, we got a lot of things going on today. And I'm like, okay, well then I go into this, you know, a Constance free church. And I walk in there. First of all, they didn't have anything going on there that day. It was a big place.

[00:40:17] And I could hear a band rehearsing, like a rock band rehearsing off to the side somewhere. So Tucker and me just walked around, you know, just in the church and walking around. And I watched the band kind of tear their stuff down. And they just finished where they were just rehearsing and we're just kind of walking around looking for anything and didn't kind of got lost actually. And then this big dude came up to me, big bald guy, probably six, four. Hey, uh, can I help you guys?

[00:40:44] And I look at him and he was, he was, he was the, it turns out he was the music pastor. And I'm like, um, this was at a time where there was, there was some problems in churches of people coming in and doing bad things, protesters and that kind of stuff. So he, he approached me as a more of a security guard person. And, um, I said, no, I, we're just here. I heard the band.

[00:41:08] So I walked down and I said, well, I'm just, I feel like I need to learn about this stuff and we need to be somewhere. And his, you just watched his posture. You could just, you could just see the grace coming out of him. You're just like, he's just like, like I said before, got one. Yeah. And, and it was just, he goes, oh, well, this is great. Let me, let me introduce you to pastor Sean. He's like, I'm the music guy and he's, I'm the middle of something here, but let me, let me take a minute with you.

[00:41:36] Let me talk to you for just a minute, which is, I couldn't get anyone at the other places to do that. And I'm like, all right, we'll check it out. I go to the first, the next, the next day literally was, so that was Saturday. The next day, it was a Sunday. We went to the mass and I went with my friend, Jana. And she's like, you can sit, we can sit way in the back. You don't have to do it. And I'm like, all right. And I get there and everyone's all, what are you doing? And I'm like, I'm like, this is a fricking cult.

[00:42:05] And I'm like, they're singing songs and stuff. And I'm like, there's like, all right, the band is okay. Cause they had some pretty good guys playing in the, the sound was actually probably a 2,500 square, 2,500 seat arena. Beautiful place. And I'm like, what's this is, this is, this is a money laundering. And I'm like, yeah. And so that's how I went into it. And, you know, and I'm sitting there with my friends. I wasn't gonna be rude. You know, it's just me. And by the end of the thing, I was in tears.

[00:42:35] Hmm. The pastor was Pastor Randy Dish. Do you remember what moved you? Do you know? I don't. I remember, I remember just thinking, this is exactly what I need right now. Because I had, I had a good job. The cult got you. You know, I had, yeah, it's what it is. I'm sorry. God gets hooking. But, you weren't, you weren't vulnerable like that. You had a good job and stuff like that. I wasn't vulnerable at all. Yeah. I had a good job. I was married.

[00:43:05] I stayed home mom. We had two kids that were both, oh, you met them both. They're good kids. Yeah. And we had, at the time we had a big house. And it was like, they had everything. And I was like, why am I, why am I unhappy? What? Oh, and that was, okay. That was what my question was. That's what it was. That's what it was. I'm like, what, what's missing? There's, there's something missing. And I'm a huge skeptic and I will be till the day I die. That's good.

[00:43:34] But you know, like, like, you know, God's for the skeptics. It, he is. And I believe that. And Thomas Jefferson said, you know, if you're a God that creates people that to critically think, you would create them to critically think that is there even a God? Yeah. You know, and the, the idea of creation, you know, people say this, you know, oh, prove it to me.

[00:44:01] I can prove it to you, but you, you don't want to believe what I'm saying. Cause they're like, oh, science. And I'm like, all right, let's think about science. I'm a product designer. My job is to, to go, hmm, this isn't a thing. I'm going to make it a thing. And other people are going to buy it and use it. And it's going to be a thing. Um, that just happened because like two dirt molecules landed together and, and the got heated, right.

[00:44:30] And some gold magic dust rubbed. There's a creator. I, my worldview of the, the Bible is, is, I think it's true. I don't think that all of the dates and times and stuff are the same kind of dates and times that we know as a day or a year. A year in God's and they say, oh, I might use creating seven days. So that seven days might've been 5 billion years. We just don't know. And you know, it's God.

[00:44:59] So we're talking about just the concept of omniscient. And it would be unfathomable for us because we, we move in a linear timeline. You, you, you can't fathom understanding past, present and future all at the same time. No, that's not something we can do, but apparently God is that.

[00:45:22] Um, so, you know, like, I think people ask the wrong questions, you know, why am I still not happy is a good question because you're open for an answer and you're still, and you're asking, you can't fill an empty cup or you can't fill a full cup. You can only fill an empty cup. But society will find a way you can find things that'll fulfill that. And that's where you have idolatry.

[00:45:52] Well, it's idolatry. And that's where, but this is the other side of the thing is this, this is where there's an evil in the world. Yeah. And that evil. Oh, and they love to deny evil. Oh, tempting. Evil is so, I mean, I am a wretch. You know, I don't, I don't pretend to be some awesome Christian. I'm an awful Christian about the worst kind, other than the kind that just haven't said they are one yet. So I'm like that one step off the edge. Yeah.

[00:46:21] You know, but if you don't, if you don't look at that and go, you know, there is evil. People say, well, how can God have a world that lets this happen and lets that happen? Let this happen. And it's funny because there was a movie that had the best explanation of that. It was called, oh, it was a movie. It was The Encounter. Mm-hmm. Have you seen it? No. It's, so it's a movie. It's a low budget Jesus movie, right?

[00:46:51] I'm going to write it down. It's called The Encounter. You don't have to be a believer to watch it. And, and because it attacks all those questions and some people win and some people lose in it. And in a way that you're like, oh, this, oh, oh, it didn't work. Um, the story is, is a bunch of people, random people driving and they, they drive into a storm and the tree, the bridge is out. They got to turn around.

[00:47:18] They all end up at this diner and the diner, the guy at the diner is, um, just, just a guy at a diner, right? Well, the guy at the diner was actually Jesus. Mm-hmm. So, and he knew everything that was going on and everyone's little, and it was, every walk of life was there. Just like all of the Christian movies. I mean, it really, but this one was, this one hit different because they, the way it was written, it was really well done.

[00:47:46] And, you know, one of the parts there was a, there was a girl that had been mercilessly raped by like her stepdad or something. And she's, you know, at, at, at the point where he reveals himself, he really, she's like, she's like, you know, okay. Okay. You are, you, you, I believe you are who you are. Why did you let this person do that to me? Mm-hmm. And he, and he basically said, there's evil. There's, there's evil.

[00:48:13] The whole time I was screaming at this, screaming at this person's head to stop doing this. You're, you're going to go to hell for this. You're going to, this is going to, you're, what you're doing now is the most evil thing. Could he have, you know, and the non-believers say, well, he could have just stopped it if he was so great. Right. Yes. But you're missing the whole point of free will that's been given to us. And that's the gift. Yes.

[00:48:39] And yeah, you have the, you know, people talk about liberty and I, I, Chrisanne Hall is one of my people, people I've studied very, quite a bit. And she had the best definition of liberty. Liberty is freedom plus morality equals liberty because without morality, freedom is, Hey, Amy, I like all those pictures on your wall. I'm going to drive over there and I'm going to take them. Yeah.

[00:49:05] Our pastor puts it as, um, it's the freedom to choose virtue. Yeah. That's, that's a, that's a good way to put it. Pretty much, you know, virtuous action to will the good in yourself and others. But it's the same thing. It's the same thing, but people can be virtuous and not freedom loving. So that's where, that's where there's a mix of it. You have to have the morality and the freedom.

[00:49:33] I, the freedom to do anything you want, the morality to know what's right. And that's where the virtue comes in. I would say that they would lack, um, they would lack something that was virtuous because I think, I think virtue is understanding that you have to give free will in order to, in order to say that you love something. Cause that's why God gave us free will. Cause he's not a tyrant.

[00:49:59] Um, and I mean, a lot of, um, people ask about the, the evil part of it, or like, why would God allow for certain things? And I'm like, well, you know, there's other entities besides God. Evil is one of those, but, but also the whole thing is, is that, you know, I have struggled with relationships my whole life.

[00:50:25] And a lot of it is due to boundaries and a lot of it is to, you know, I I'm very, um, incoherent about a lot of things because I would be fighting for my own autonomy as well as wanting a relationship. And the two do not work. No, those do not gel. Correct. So, you know, it, it was a struggle for a very long time for me until it really occurred

[00:50:53] to me that like, you know, if, if I, if I want somebody in my life, I'm going to have to like integrate them and I'm going to have to actually accept compromise and I'm not going to get everything I want. And maybe that's not even the point. It's probably not the point at all. You know, I don't know if you know this, but before it said in the pursuit of happiness, it said in the pursuit of property. Yeah. Um, and a lot of people don't know that about the con you know, the constitution and the declaration of independence.

[00:51:23] Well, the declaration of independence is the preamble to the constitution and they only changed it because, you know, they didn't want to quantify happiness in property, but ownership is something that I think that, you know, we, we want to have, and it, you know, I think they, they saw, they saw it as a broader thing. Um, but property was what it was.

[00:51:47] But anyway, when it came down to God, a lot of people, and this is how I was before I came to Christ was I believed in God, but I didn't have a relationship with God and having, and wanting a relationship with God is completely different than believing in God. That nails exactly what I was. Cause I was, I was 42 years old when I started looking into this. Yeah. I was 42.

[00:52:17] Yeah. You know, I was 39. So I was close. Yeah. I mean, and I always knew there was something. I remember, I remember there was times when, you know, again, when you get to your celebrate your trials and you just, you throw your hands. I remember there was just a bunch of crap going on in my life and finances and relationship with the kids. And I do just, I had it up to here with everything. Right. And I remember just standing out on the deck in Minnesota.

[00:52:42] It was like 10 degrees below zero, just looking up at the sky and with a blanket wrapped around to me and just going, I don't, I don't know, but what it's, if you're there, what do I do? Yeah. How do I show me? Can you, I had no idea even how to approach it. Yeah. I just stood there. I'm like, I know there's something there and someone's listening. Yeah. But I had no knowledge of any of it.

[00:53:12] So, you know, now it's just like the, you know, if it's a nice sunny day and I'm driving and I see a pretty cloud. Yeah. You say, thank you, God. I always say, thank you. Yeah. Every sunset is a complete blessing. I'm blessed to live where we have freaking like five nights a week, amazing sunsets, you know? Yeah. And you have a great deck too. Oh yeah, it is. It's fantastic. It's very beautiful. Yeah. That's the sunrise side. It's a lot of people reject God.

[00:53:41] And that's the thing is that like, because God gives us free will. If, if, if you're basically, you know, the Bible is God's word, right? Like, so we, you know, we accept that. Mm hmm. And my, my pastor's always saying, you know, it's, it's a love letter that God is writing to humanity to come back. That's right. And all he keeps saying is these few things that he wants us to do so that we can be with him.

[00:54:11] And we keep going, we keep arguing with those things. Right. We keep justifying our own actions. We don't want to believe that there's sin or evil in the world. We, we get, we fall in love with sin. We want to walk away. We want to do it ourselves. I mean, like everything that I struggled with within wanting autonomy. I realized I was keeping myself from the love that I could have.

[00:54:40] And that's the thing that I think a lot of people don't understand. And that's, I think it's good to be a skeptic because you end up being crushed by your own, your own making. The willing, the, what you're talking about is the willing to submit. And that's what you hear a lot of the people, especially the feminists. Talk about submit to your mail. I'm like, it also says submit to your wife.

[00:55:04] And it also says that the man should love his wife as Christ loves the church, which means that he sacrificed himself. Yeah. He hung on a cross for us. And, and that, that just, that. Why wouldn't you submit to somebody like that? Well, exactly. Well, and, but the word submit people are taking it the wrong way. And it's, you know, if you're not submitting to each other. Yeah.

[00:55:33] You know, there's roles and, and, and men and women have roles and I'm not going to get deep into this, all this bullshit that's going on now. Cause it's, it's bullshit. Most of it, but we have roles. Yeah. You know, and even, even the most effeminate straight male that's married to maybe a pretty hard woman has a role. Yeah. And that woman's still looking to him for that role. And he's looking to her for her role. And there's nothing you can do about it. Cause it's, it's, it's in us.

[00:56:02] It's in our, it's in our blood. It's in our, our exact being, you know, Nature's law and what is it? Natural law and nature's law. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's order is what it is. We talk about, we, we, Stacy and I got in a conversation the other day about women in the I, you know, I've got no problem with women doing anything they want to do. Knock yourselves out.

[00:56:28] I think that, I mean, one of the people that I thought was fantastic as far as women's rights and she gets looked down to pot by women is Danica Patrick. He was driving in fricking NASCAR. Yeah. Talk about the biggest old, good old boys club. And, and she was competitive. Yeah. You know, you know, she wasn't Richard Petty, but it wasn't because she was a woman. It was just, it, but she was competitive.

[00:56:52] She drove Indy cars and I'm like, why aren't all of these feminists holding this well-spoken? I mean, she was a spokesperson. Yeah. Very well-spoken. And, and, and, and drop dead gorgeous. Yeah. Smart as a whip and talented as all hell. This is everything a feminist should want. Nope. Nope. Nope. It's just, she does not fit the, it's not a fire person or whatever.

[00:57:17] It's like there's roles in the, some places like in race car driving, or it doesn't matter if you're male or female, it makes no difference. Shirley Muldowney in the seventies was a top fuel champion drag racer. Right. I mean, it makes no difference. Yeah. Those areas, honestly, great. Basketball. It's a different story. It's just a different story. And it's. For me, there's doing what you want, but there's also.

[00:57:45] So, so my issue with women in the military is when it gets to the fact that to the point of when we have female flight suits that are made for pregnant women, because that's not you doing what you want. I never thought of that. Yeah. That that's where I get. That's where I get like, okay, no, because now we're not just talking about you independently.

[00:58:09] Right now we're confronting a big, a big thing that you are that has intrinsic value beyond you and you're sacrificing that. And I think a society that sacrifices, you know, not only a woman, but a pregnant woman to something like that. We're in trouble. And you're also. Yeah. Not only on the personal level, on the people around you level, you're also sacrificing them.

[00:58:39] Yes. Because you can't tell me that someone that's pregnant is going to be 100%. I mean, in a military fashion started. I mean, a job or so. Yeah. They can be. Praying women can do plenty of things. But, you know, flying missions and things like that in an F-60, there might be a time you don't get to. I don't know, but I think a woman who could be clear, you're not thinking about your child. And that's the thing that you should be thinking about. Yeah.

[00:59:06] So if you're good at it, despite being pregnant. That's also a problem. Then you also have a problem. That's also a problem. And what we're talking about today is ingrained in men is to protect women. Mm hmm. And some people don't like it when people say, oh, you're. I'm like, okay, I'm a misogynist. I don't give a shit. That's terrible of me. Oh, my God. How awful. I want to protect women, you know? Yes. And I have in the past.

[00:59:32] I mean, I've gone and done things to make sure that this girl's being something's happening here. I'm going to make sure this doesn't happen. Yeah. And in a military sense. So this is where they can fight just as good and stuff like that. You know what? As far as shooting down range and running down the thing and sure. You know what? I bet they could. I bet they could. But when it gets to if there's going to be close to you when you're when you're in a city kicking in doors door to door combat, they're gonna the guys are going to watch out for her. And it's only that but.

[01:00:02] Yeah. There's so many that takes but by watching out for her that takes a little bit of the edge off of what they're doing. It's it's also discounting a huge facet of. Of war culture that happens regardless and that's rape. Yeah. And it happens to the men too, unfortunately. Right. But there isn't a baby that gets in the result of that.

[01:00:30] And, you know, a lot of the cultures that we go to war with, it is a part of their faith to rape as many people they consider to be infidels as possible. Right. And that's how they proliferate their faith and their their all of that. I mean, people might not want to accept that, but that is the truth of those faiths and women who would be willing to put themselves at risk like that.

[01:01:00] And again, the not thinking about the potential unborn child themselves, any of that in that instance. It's just it. It. I can't imagine like I can't imagine why you would want to put yourself in that position, you know, and it's not like there's lots of facets of the military that require women that are more about strategy. They're really good at like, like interrogation.

[01:01:29] Like they're really good once you have the bad guy caught and they're like in captivity and they're watched. They're really good at pulling out information and things like that, you know, of certain certain assets. Well, there's a there's a there's a place for women in the military. There's a really good snipers. They're really great long range shooters. Mm hmm. Women are great shots. Yes. They tend to have they had tend to have better breathing and they have better trigger control and things like that.

[01:01:59] But I agree with you in any kind of combat situation. Hell to the no. Yeah. I mean, if you watch an episode of cops, watch what the with which which the with the female officers. I mean, because that's what's happening. The male officers come to the rescue every single as soon as it gets physical. I mean, I don't care, man. They're like, oh, they teach you. I'm like, they can't teach a girl how to fight a guy that's, you know, I'm not huge. All right.

[01:02:28] I'm five, 10, 206 pounds. But some some girl that's the same size as me, that's a cop that's been trained is thinks she's going to take me downward. I'm like, I just don't care if I hurt her. I mean, this is the thing. Most guys don't want to hurt a woman because we're there to protect them when when this when the switch flips and you know, OK, it's either her or me. Get you're not winning. No, because men are fucking brutal. They're heavy. They're heavy as crap.

[01:02:59] Any woman who wants to figure this out, just just do jujitsu. Just do a year. Yeah, do a year in jujitsu. And I guarantee you, you're going to be confronted with how heavy, how strong. And you're also going to experience a lot of things that thank God I had simulated in a friendly setting. But beards aren't cool when they're sweaty and in your face. Yeah.

[01:03:26] And I can understand like triggers now of like certain things like when people, you know, their gi is a little dirty or they bring their their home life or their colognes and stuff. And you're like that close to them in an attack. I mean, it was a simulated attack situation, but you can't breathe. You're complete. You're complete. Your whole face is covered and you're having to think. Do that for a year. And you tell me that you don't understand the difference.

[01:03:57] Well, and you should do it for a year because you'll get some tips about how to handle yourself a little bit better in those situations. And they will give you some moves to do so that you could maybe get away. Get away. And honestly, that's always been my fighting strategy whenever I got in fights was I want to get out of this situation. Yeah. I don't care about beating someone's ass and looking cool. I just was like, I don't want to get my ass beat. Yeah. And so I learned the tricks of the trade that made me do that. But I also know that.

[01:04:27] And I don't see it in women because you see fights of women fighting and stuff. I mean, I'm not talking to MMA level. That's a different world. That's that they've trained for it or boxing. The just the majority of regular guys force the majority of regular women. Most regular guys have never been in a fight in their life either. Right. I mean, for the most part. Yeah. Especially if they're bigger too, because usually people just don't mess with you if you're big. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And I was never the bigger guy.

[01:04:54] So, so, you know, that was that. Yeah. I'm like, I was the one that get messed with, but I found out that the guy that you go for is the bigger guy. Yes. Because they knock him down or they fall hard. You can pause for a minute. The other ones don't go after you. Yes. I'm like, okay. Which is, you know, I hate to even talk like this, but it's just facts. I mean, we're men can be violent and, and, and I, we can be violent in a way like getting into just a regular little fist fight really doesn't hurt anybody.

[01:05:24] Maybe you break your nose or something like that. I'm not talking a brutal beat down, but the average kind of argument fist fight. And that's the difference between men. Men always have that there. Women don't. So the, so when you're talking to another guy, there's this unspoken rule of this can end up in a fight. Always. That's why I like men though, because. But there's a mutual respect there. Yeah. Jordan Peterson put it the best. He's like, he's like, every man should be dangerous.

[01:05:54] Yes. Because a dangerous man that knows how to control it. You know. Virtuous. Yeah. Virtuous. And if someone that's not dangerous, there's no virtue there. Cause you're not, you know, we talked about the virtue earlier. If you're not, if you're not capable of this evil thing. Well, we all are. Even women. We're, we're all dangerous. We all have a monster, but, but the making of a person is the suppression of the monster and the control of the monster.

[01:06:23] But on men, what he was talking about specifically is there, there's people that, yeah, they're dangerous than men, but they're not, they're not physically dangerous to another man. No. And we know them. I mean, you know, um, like I guarantee you Rico and me would meet and I like Rico very much. He's a big motherfucker. Yeah. There is no chance that I have of, of beating him down. Right. Bulletproof. No, that's what there is that.

[01:06:51] But what I'm saying is that even though that there's that, he also knows that, Hey, even though I know I can crush this guy, I could still get hurt really badly because he's still another person that, that, that, that has the ability. Well, he's conscious of civil order and he's conscious of repercussions. Right. And he knows that somebody like him, he would, he would never want to get into an altercation where he punches you. Cause he knows a punch that he throws on you could kill you.

[01:07:20] And, and there is, he would be judged so much harsher. By a judge because of his eyes. Because he's virtuous. Because he's virtuous. Yes. Well, he's conscious too. My point that, but even the, even that consciousness, I mean, cause there's been people that have come at me that I'm like, I can't believe this person's even doing this. Cause it's going to be so easy to destroy it, you know? And I'm like, but I had to think, what if they get a good, you know, what if all you need is one lucky hit.

[01:07:50] And it doesn't matter how big a person is. Well, and how small a person is. And there's always that, what I'm saying, this is, there's always that danger. Yes. That yes, it's there for women too, but women do it mentally. Women, women do it exactly as, as evil and dangerous and destructive of a thing, but it's not physical. It's mental. Yeah. We're sneaky. You're sneaky and you'll, and it, again, it's the difference. It's a product of our sex.

[01:08:19] We have to, you know, it's the, it's the way we survive. And that's why Stacy was my collection agency. When, when I had my business painting motorcycles and stuff and someone wouldn't pay me. I'd ask him, I'd ask, I'd give him three strikes. I'm like, okay, okay. Wednesday, you'll be over here. All right. That's cool. Wednesday comes by three. All right. Friday, Saturday. I'm like, all right, here's his number. Here's where he works. This is what we did. Whatever you got to do. You go ahead. Within minutes that money was there because she, I would have approached it physically

[01:08:49] and gone over there with a few guys and figured it out and then gone to jail. That doesn't do anyone any good. She played with their head. Yes. Yeah. Like, so one guy didn't pay me and he had plenty of money. He just was just, you know, I'm sure you've got people that you've worked with in the past that they have all the money in the world. They just don't pay and it's just, they forget or it's not as important. And I'm like, no. Mostly they rob my time.

[01:09:16] They always pay, but they're the kind of people who think they can pay for everything. And so they abuse, they abuse me in other ways. But I, but my, my job is different. Like, I think when you're a tattoo artist, they're like, this bitch might actually have a gun. She might actually, if I don't pay her after this tattoo, it could get really real. I'm painting motorcycles. It's the same client. I mean, it's literally the same client. So, and I, they knew I had, they're there.

[01:09:45] Like they're there with me. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like you, you have to deliver the product and stuff and whatever, and you've done the job already. And then they have to have, they're physically there with me. They've never left. So. Right. To not pay me when you're actually physically there is different. I can be like, okay, well I'm calling the cops now. So yeah. Well you can, but again, you call the cops. I just talked to my wife. And so the guy didn't pay and it was like six weeks and I had put off other jobs to get his job done.

[01:10:15] And then those jobs didn't come back. So we lost some money. And he owed us like $4,000. It wasn't like 200 bucks. Wow. And so she's like, all right, I get a call from work. I get a call at work. She was driving somewhere with my son who Tucker, he's like three years old, two or three years old, little kid. And the exhaust fell off her car, which was a 71 Chrysler Newport. Nice car. And it wrapped around, literally wrapped around the axle. So it was making all kinds of noise and sparks everywhere. So I get the screaming call at work.

[01:10:44] How are we going to afford to pay this? I'm like, all right, here's the deal. The guy doesn't pay me. He owes me the money. The, all the parts are down at our friend's shop. Cause I don't give it anything back to anybody until they pay. So my friend knew he's like, I won't get these back. So she was okay. And she called the guy up at his work and says, listen, motherfucker. Just like this. I got your goddamn freaking parts. I'm driving them over to your work right now. And you know, with the car with no exhaust. Right. And, uh, and, uh, you're going to have my money or they're going on eBay this afternoon for whatever you owe me.

[01:11:16] Drove to the work and he paid her right there in the spot. I mean, they weren't wrapped up. She just literally just threw them in the, I mean, yeah, I had. I had. I was pearl white Cadillac Escalade pearl white. And I had all kinds of crazy airbrush and I'd been dozens and dozens of hours and we got paid. It happened. No. And you know, I think it's probably the same with you and them too. It's just that it's that delivery thing. It's like, they're abusing your time is what it is. Like they don't realize they have this thing going.

[01:11:45] They probably have a million different things they're paying for. They're moving. They're doing. And so they just don't, they think it's like a, whatever I'll pick it up. I'll pay for it. And they don't realize that that's like your next month's rent. It's like, no dude. Like literally now get it. The addendum of that, the addendum of that story was like three years later, I get a call from the guy. He loved the paint job. He was like, this is incredible. Cause it did come out really cool.

[01:12:14] And, um, it was right after nine 11. So there was like, it was like Eagles and you know, just all the good. And, um, he's like, I had an accident, the bike, I didn't crash it, but they'd fell over in the trailer and it fell over in the trailer in such a way where the inner fender of the trailer hit the top of the gas cap. And it pushed the gas cap in. So all the artwork on there around it, it didn't affect any of that, but it dented it. I'm like, I can fix that. He goes, I'll pay you right away. I'll pay you up front.

[01:12:44] I'll pay you right away. I just, I don't want your wife barking down my, and I'm like, okay. Go, go, go. Wow. Diary listeners. That's it for this week with Ken. Yeah. I felt like as I was listening to the end of that, you just, we get so excited.

[01:13:08] I think, can I think so similarly, but it's almost like when you're so excited about the same thing that you like, as if when you listen to us, we're contentious, but we're, we're, we're saying the exact same thing. And at one point, I don't think I really understood him about, um, him and my husband,

[01:13:31] Rico and how, um, you know, the, the, the very real potential of even if Rico is a huge guy that he could still hurt him. And Rico is aware of that. And so I wanted to give Ken, Ken that, uh, that little nod before we rabbit this week. I was aware I wasn't in the moment. I think I was just too, too eager, not listening well enough.

[01:13:59] I'll admit that's Rico. Um, he talks to his dad like five times a day. Rico does. Yeah. Does his dad live nearby? Yes. He sees his dad almost every single day for coffee. Rico's the shit man. I can't wait to meet him for real. I'm telling you, dude, we'll give you a big, big hug. Thank you so much, Ken. Uh, listeners.

[01:14:27] We have, we have more to come. Uh, Ken and I were very much. So catching up in this. I don't know how many parts. It went on for a while. Uh, we, we spent like four and a half hours talking in this bulk recording that we had. So it was partially a catch up and then partially a directive to explore.

[01:14:52] As I said at the top, Ken's coming to faith and what his practice has been and his relationship with God and what, what the favorites are and take homes. And so it was, uh, it was quite a bit to cut and paste. Cause I, I didn't want to fetter this, uh, with things that were meant for just me and him.

[01:15:17] And then, you know, also the message that he's trying to, to offer, which I was so grateful for when I heard from him. Um, he reached out to me and he's like, Oh, I gotta tell you, I gotta tell you how I came to Christ. And, uh, you know what that was like. And so I, I was very grateful. So next week we're gonna, we're gonna share more. You're gonna have more from Ken Manon, but, uh, that's it for this week.

[01:15:47] I'm just so grateful for his friendship and, um, happy to have him back on the show. And I'm very blessed and happy that I've arrived to something that him and I can actually, I guess, be so excited about that. We were talking about the same things, but it almost sounds like we're arguing. Isn't that just like Christians in a nutshell? I mean, it's makes me laugh.

[01:16:15] We get so passionate. Um, but yeah, that I'm finally walking with Christ and can talk to him about this because he's a fellow artist, uh, a fellow follower. He also came to Christ very similarly to my family and how I came to Christ.

[01:16:39] So it's just so neat to, I don't know, uh, share this with many people and to realize that like most of the things that we've explored on this podcast within, I guess, passion pursuits and learning journeys that there's similarities in this.

[01:17:01] And I think it makes a really good conversation, um, fun and definitely ridiculous at times, but I hope you guys enjoyed it. And, uh, we'll catch you next week with part two. Like I said, I don't know how many parts this is. I wish I could prepare you, but, um, I just listened to about an hour and 15 minutes and cut out a lot of extra.

[01:17:26] So I'm going to have to go through the rest of this, but, um, tonight I have my second course that I'm taking in accounting. So that happens at seven this evening, which is when I usually post the podcast. So I'm actually, uh, running up against my own deadlines with the Baltimore tattoo convention, which was awesome. Last, uh, this past weekend, it was a lot, but it was awesome. I'm just, I'm gassed. I don't know if you guys can hear it.

[01:17:56] My voice, uh, we, we were shouting all weekend. Um, I'm a little, I'm a little stretched thin, so I appreciate the patience and I apologize for not having, uh, things more polished and refined and crafted for all of you, but, uh, I'm grateful.

[01:18:17] And we'll be back next week with Ken and probably by next week, I'll understand how many pieces there are to this, this podcast. But as we know now, there is least at least two. So come back next week, listeners for more of me and Ken Madden. And thank you, Ken, your blessing. And I love you. I love you all. Have a powerful week later. Thanks for listening.

[01:18:47] You can find the apprenticeship diaries on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Our IG is the underscore apprenticeship underscore diary. If you would like to offer constructive criticism or an interview, drop us an email at the apprenticeship diaries at gmail.com. We look forward to hearing from our listeners. Thanks, viewers. Bye bye.